QF Points posting incorrectly - maddening CS

[CPMaverick]

Hello folks-

Apologies if this is a bit of a vent. I recently did a Gold Challenge, looking to switch to QF from VA (not due to major issues with VA, just schedules, etc). I've racked up 500 SC in 6 weeks, and my flights have been good, but QF FF has been really difficult.

On my first itinerary I had a drama of QF taking away 20k points for no reason: 20,000 points deducted for a non-upgrade

On this itinerary, I found that 2 of my three flights of my return posted incorrectly. One, a AA operated QF codeshare, posted as Discount Economy, when it should have been Flexible Economy. Another, QF flight SYD-MEL, posted as a reward flight, with 0 points and 0 SC. That's three flights on one return itinerary, all connecting flights on the same day, 1 posted as flexible, 1 posted as discount, 1 posted as a reward flight!

Anyway, I know things happen, it's far from my first problem with FF postings. After my last QF issue I found twitter and email to be the most productive, so I started there. Probably easiest to summarize in a list:

- I emailed a copy of my itinerary booking and BP to QF FF. I also sent the same information to Twitter
- Twitter responded that my flights posted properly
- Email asked for a copy of my BP (which I already sent).
- I re-sent my BP via email. Email responded that my flights posted properly.
- So, I called and talked to QF FF. After a long call, they fixed my QF flight that posted as a reward.
- However the agent insisted that the AA codeshare posted properly. I asked for a supervisor, but she said 'sorry, they will tell you the same thing'. She kept saying 'You need to discuss this with the booking team'. Ok, put me through to the booking team then.
- After a 45 minute hold, I get a member of the booking team. After i explain my situation, she says 'let me transfer you to the FF department' I pleaded for her not to do that, and the agent was quite helpful. She said it was impossible to book one discount economy leg on a flexible itinerary return (finally someone that gets it!). But she has no power to post FF points. She has no idea why they transferred me to her. I ask if her supervisor can help me, again, 'sorry they can't do anything either'
- Finally after basically begging the agent to speak to FF on my behalf, she does, and I get back on line with FF agent that she spoke to. He posts my flight properly, but tells me that 'it was in O class on AA so it will always post as discount economy without manual intervention'. No apologies, just telling me that basically their system is broken and that's just the way it is.

Is QF FF always so incompetent? In both my experiences they refused to do anything except tell me the points posted properly, and any questions need to be asked of the 'booking team'. I've never seen an airline that passes the buck like this, usually agents are empowered to fix the problem.

In the end I got my points, and I respect that it can't always be this bad dealing with QF (surely some of this is bad luck?)... but after spending and average of 1 hour on the phone per QF itinerary so far, for the meantime I am back to booking with VA.

 

[defurax]

I'm surprised you convinced them to credit the QF codeshare on AA as Flex. I often book Flex economy flights to the US (booking class H) and the fare rules are that QF flights operated by AA will book in the lowest fare bucket available up to H. So if I book early the QF codeshare on AA are always in O, N, S class and credit as discount economy. Similar rules exit with other partners, for example a Flex booking including Air Tahiti QF codeshare will book in discount economy. I don't know why it's acceptable, but like you I've lost hours on the phone with QF, but they always told me they can't physically book the QF codeshare operated by AA in H if lower fare buckets are available for this specific fare basis.

 

[woodborer]

For the AA flight, all that matters is the booking class of that flight, only that flight, and nothing but that flight. If you argue your case on the booking class of the flight, it is much easier than trying to justify something based on what other things in the itinerary did.

Was it 'O' class on AA?

 

[CPMaverick]

When booking, I selected 'Flex' fare for the entire trip. The SC earning reflected that I would earn SC in full-fare economy for all legs.

My ticket was booked in 'H' class and had all QF flight numbers.

The agents stated that my AA operated flight reflected 'O' class, but I don't see that anywhere in my booking. The 'booking team' agent said that flex fares can book into O class on AA but if it is a QF codeshare it should be reflected as a flex booking.

Where can I find my complete fare rules? I can't seem to find it on the QF site, either during or after booking.

The FF agent did seem like this is 'situation normal', but if so I definitely won't be booking any QF itneraries in flex if they have an AA codeshare in the future. It's not right to book a 'Flex' fare for the entire itinerary and not get credit for it, especially if they are all QF flight numbers. I've never experienced that in any other FF program (and I've held status in many).

 

[defurax]

Here's the Booking Class Table for QF Fare basis HLX0A. You'll see that for travel within Area 1 (USA) the fare will book in the lowest bucket available, except LAX-NYC.

Results from https://www.ExpertFlyer.com

Booking Class Search:
Departing MEL on 05/06/19 for MIA
Fare basis code HLX0A
Flying QF
Routing via Pacific


Booking Class

>$LB1                                                         
001 MELMIA 05JUN19 QF AUD 3000.00 HLX0A    STAY---/12MBK-H    
FARE CLS  EXPLANATION                            BOOK CODES   
--------  ----------------------                 ----------   
HLX0A     BASIC SEASON MIDWEEK REGULAR EXCURSION    H         
HLX0A     FARES                                               
HLX0A     FOR ROUND TRIP FARES                                
                                                              
BOOKING CODE EXCEPTIONS                                      
   VIA QF  H     REQUIRED      H- FARES  BETWEEN LAX-NYC      
   VIA QF  Q     REQUIRED      WHEN AVAILABLE  BETWEEN NEW    
                               ZEALAND-FRENCH POLYNESIA       
   VIA QF  S     REQUIRED      WHEN AVAILABLE  BETWEEN NEW    
   ZEALAND-FRENCH POLYNESIA       
   VIA QF  L     REQUIRED      WHEN AVAILABLE  BETWEEN NEW    
                               ZEALAND-FRENCH POLYNESIA       
   VIA QF  M     REQUIRED      BETWEEN NEW ZEALAND-FRENCH     
                               POLYNESIA                      
   VIA QF  Q     REQUIRED      WHEN AVAILABLE  BETWEEN        
                               USA-FRENCH POLYNESIA           
   VIA QF  S     REQUIRED      WHEN AVAILABLE  BETWEEN        
                               USA-FRENCH POLYNESIA           
   VIA QF  L     REQUIRED      WHEN AVAILABLE  BETWEEN        
                               USA-FRENCH POLYNESIA           
   VIA QF  M     REQUIRED      BETWEEN USA-FRENCH POLYNESIA   
   VIA QF  Q     REQUIRED      WHEN AVAILABLE  BETWEEN        
   AUSTRALIA-FIJI                 
   VIA QF  N     REQUIRED      WHEN AVAILABLE  BETWEEN        
                               AUSTRALIA-FIJI                 
   VIA QF  S     REQUIRED      WHEN AVAILABLE  BETWEEN        
                               AUSTRALIA-FIJI                 
   VIA QF  V     REQUIRED      WHEN AVAILABLE  BETWEEN        
                               AUSTRALIA-FIJI                 
   VIA QF  L     REQUIRED      WHEN AVAILABLE  BETWEEN        
                               AUSTRALIA-FIJI                 
   VIA QF  M     REQUIRED      BETWEEN AUSTRALIA-FIJI         
   VIA QF  Q     REQUIRED      WHEN AVAILABLE  BETWEEN FIJI-USA
   VIA QF  N     REQUIRED      WHEN AVAILABLE  BETWEEN FIJI-USA
   VIA QF  S     REQUIRED      WHEN AVAILABLE  BETWEEN FIJI-USA
   VIA QF  V     REQUIRED      WHEN AVAILABLE  BETWEEN FIJI-USA
   VIA QF  L     REQUIRED      WHEN AVAILABLE  BETWEEN FIJI-USA
   VIA QF  M     REQUIRED      BETWEEN FIJI-USA               
   VIA QF  O     REQUIRED      WHEN AVAILABLE  H- FARES  WITHIN
                               AREA 1                         
   VIA QF  Q     REQUIRED      WHEN AVAILABLE  H- FARES  WITHIN
                               AREA 1                         
   VIA QF  N     REQUIRED      WHEN AVAILABLE  H- FARES  WITHIN
                               AREA 1                         
   VIA QF  S     REQUIRED      WHEN AVAILABLE  H- FARES  WITHIN
                               AREA 1                         
   VIA QF  L     REQUIRED      WHEN AVAILABLE  H- FARES  WITHIN
                               AREA 1                         
   VIA QF  M     REQUIRED      WHEN AVAILABLE  H- FARES  WITHIN
   VIA QF  K     REQUIRED      WHEN AVAILABLE  H- FARES  WITHIN
   VIA QF  H     REQUIRED      WHEN AVAILABLE  H- FARES  WITHIN

 

[CPMaverick]

Thanks, I get that QF will book into existing codes on AA (and to sell more QF flex fares, they will likely not require as high a booking class on these AA connecting flights).

However, I booked a QF H fare on a QF codeshare. Shouldn't it post as a QF H fare? And in fact, that is how it posted after my complaint, and both agents in the end agreed that that was the proper result.

If I booked the AA coded flight, I absolutely understand that the AA booking class would matter.

 

[defurax]

Thanks, I get that QF will book into existing codes on AA (and to sell more QF flex fares, they will likely not require as high a booking class on these AA connecting flights).

However, I booked a QF H fare on a QF codeshare. Shouldn't it post as a QF H fare? And in fact, that is how it posted after my complaint, and both agents in the end agreed that that was the proper result.

If I booked the AA coded flight, I absolutely understand that the AA booking class would matter.

The table I posted above is for a H flexi fare. All the exceptions are specifically for QF flight number on any airlines, not just AA. I am very impressed that you managed to get QF to change the number of SC you received. SC earn is based solely on each individual flight and as shown above in the table QF rules are that the only exception is LAX-NYC, all other QF number flights in the USA will book in the lowest fare bucket available. This is even true for fare basis YLX0A which is the most expensive economy ticket one can buy.

 

[CPMaverick]

I guess I learned something, thanks. The website during booking, as well as the SC calculator, prove very misleading in this regard. If you book a 'Flex' fare and put that in the calculator as AA operated, it gives you the wrong information. No more QF-coded AA flights in my future I guess, at least if I am paying for Flex fares.

That table, of course, is not on the QF website. And I still can't find any full fare rules on the website, even tried a dummy booking. And, the agents don't even know this information properly.

QF took 20k points for no reason, and one of my flights posted as a reward flight for no reason, but I guess at least 1/3 problems had a reason.

 

[defurax]

I don't know why airlines are allowed to not display their full fare rules and booking class tables on their website. Maybe the airlines have lobbied regulators considering how messy fare rules, routing rules and other exceptions can be.
I know some airlines say that fare rules can be obtained by contacting them...who knows if it's true...

 

[CPMaverick]

So you can't get the full fare rules? Wow. I've seen them buried before but never unavailable.

VA makes them pretty easy to find.

 

[Mattg]

I guess I learned something, thanks. The website during booking, as well as the SC calculator, prove very misleading in this regard. If you book a 'Flex' fare and put that in the calculator as AA operated, it gives you the wrong information. No more QF-coded AA flights in my future I guess, at least if I am paying for Flex fares.

That table, of course, is not on the QF website. And I still can't find any full fare rules on the website, even tried a dummy booking. And, the agents don't even know this information properly.

QF took 20k points for no reason, and one of my flights posted as a reward flight for no reason, but I guess at least 1/3 problems had a reason.

You're not the first person to have this problem. Qantas indeed sells discount Economy tickets on AA as part of international Flex itineraries and as Qantas does not display the fare class being booked on its website, customers cannot know this. FWIW, this affects both AA and QF coded flights operated by American Airlines.

I did write about this recently in this AFF article - The Qantas Website Should Display Fare Classes

 

[CPMaverick]

Thanks Matt. Honestly this lack of transparency is troubling and is turning me off booking QF in the future. I'm not trying to be dramatic, and I am not boycotting QF... but if I can't figure out exactly what I'm purchasing, I'm less likely to purchase it.

Although I hadn't been able to see the fare classes in my previous bookings, I assumed it was because I was unfamiliar with the QF website. I never imagined it was actually impossible!

 

[Mattg]

Thanks Matt. Honestly this lack of transparency is troubling and is turning me off booking QF in the future. I'm not trying to be dramatic, and I am not boycotting QF... but if I can't figure out exactly what I'm purchasing, I'm less likely to purchase it.

Although I hadn't been able to see the fare classes in my previous bookings, I assumed it was because I was unfamiliar with the QF website. I never imagined it was actually impossible!

If you haven't already, please provide this feedback to Qantas. If enough people complain, they might change it!

 

[CPMaverick]

What's the best way to give feedback? So far I don't seem to have any intuitive knack for the best way to contact QF.

 

[serfty]

There is a way to get at the fare classes for a booking online without paying.

During the booking process, ensure your Qantas FF number is in the booking and take it all the way to the final pay window but don't complete it.

Then log into your frequent flyer account on another browser/tab, go to "your bookings" and it should be listed - access that and read off the fare huckets for each sector.

 

[Pleb Status]

I don't know why airlines are allowed to not display their full fare rules and booking class tables on their website. Maybe the airlines have lobbied regulators considering how messy fare rules, routing rules and other exceptions can be.
I know some airlines say that fare rules can be obtained by contacting them...who knows if it's true...

Most quality airlines are far less opaque than QF.

Is there another 'full service' airline that does not show the fare class/basis of each sector anywhere on their website prior to booking (without tricks)?

When I was part of the cult, I would sometimes use Expedia or Amex travel to see what the probable fare classes would be. Combined QF/CX bookings made on the QF website (say PER-SIN-HKG v.v) would sometimes book the CX sectors into the fare classes that do not pay any QFFP or SC. No mention of this of the QF website however.

 

[serfty]

What's the best way to give feedback? So far I don't seem to have any intuitive knack for the best way to contact QF.

There is a place on the web site, i dont have the direct link with me.

Did you get your 20k points refunded?

If not, see here:

Industry Ombudsmen & Dispute Resolution

Here you can discuss how you have used the Airline Customer Advocate or another Industry Ombudsmen to resolve issues you have had with companies providing services.

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

There may be some help there.

 

[Mattg]

What's the best way to give feedback? So far I don't seem to have any intuitive knack for the best way to contact QF.

If you want an immediate response, best to contact them on Facebook/Twitter. But for this kind of thing, I'd submit feedback via the Customer Care contact form.