Lack of curtains separating Business and Economy on 737

[marki]

Who actually pays 4 times the price for domestic J?
Anyone who does that must have a severe inferiority complex?

Hi wrcmad welcome to AFF, with some imagination and reading around the great AFF forums you will find most surely there are many reasons people get into J. And yes one of the reasons is paying times 4 for the benefit. I have to do it on flights especially on Friday's before Easter, they were the only available seats back home on short notice.

 

[Pushka]

<redacted> Read around there are many reasons people get into J. One of them is paying times 4 for the benefit. I have to do it on flights Friday before Easter as they were the only available on short notice.

You really need to be nicer to newbies. Even if they might say something a little irritating.

 

[FrustratedQP]

Who actually pays 4 times the price for domestic J?
Anyone who does that must have a severe inferiority complex?

I don’t think this is a fair comment.

 

[PJF]

Hi wrcmad welcome to AFF, with some imagination and reading around the great AFF forums you will find most surely there are many reasons people get into J. And yes one of the reasons is paying times 4 for the benefit. I have to do it on flights especially on Friday's before Easter, they were the only available seats back home on short notice.

Some of those reasons are ordinary people who save up from a long time to take a holiday travel in business and want to experience the service maybe for the only time in their.life. Lets just hope they don't travel on the QF 738s and have it all spoiled by constant Y passengers incursions like Hvr experience with his post for his MEL-CHC flight yesterday.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Amazing how many posts there are for a lack of curtains!

Personally, I couldn't care less about the curtains (or lack thereof). I do find the open toilet policy to be a disruption (figuratively speaking). There is one J lav and 12 pax (QF nearly always fill the J cabin). Add all the WPs and SGs and nobodies seated in the first half of the plane who seem to think they're also entitled to use it and it often becomes a traffic jam which is a disruption to the J ambience (as limited as it is) and a disruption to the J crew trying to correctly service the J pax. I've even experienced one guy doing his stretching exercises between 1C and 1D, impeding upon both of those spaces for which the occupants had supposed exclusive right of use.

I'm not sure whether there is any real policy from QF on this as the most number of times I've flown dom J, there is no control of Y pax inviting themselves to use the J loo, however once (and only once in the past few years) I've been on a flight where Y pax were actively turned back from the J enclave! I think the pre-flight spiel also still states that there are 2 toilets to the rear of the plane for Y pax and 1 at the front for business pax. All it takes is the CS to enforce the policy. That is part of their job IMHO and yet I've often seen them happily chatting to those in the J loo "waiting room" like they have every right to be there. Once more, management of the crew and the crew themselves is the big fall down here.

It seems petty, but when we fly J, we do pay considerably more to have the J benefits and removing cabin exclusivity is a big downfall for QF and one where their domestic competition by far excels over them.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Who actually pays 4 times the price for domestic J?
Anyone who does that must have a severe inferiority complex?

My inferiority complex apparently doesn't impact negatively upon your envy complex though!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I'm prepared to give wrcmad the benefit of the doubt here.

Some posters have made the point they feel business class passengers are demanding respect based on the fare they have paid. They're implying that somehow business class passengers truly believe they're 4x superior because they're paying 4x the fare. And they've stated they won't give business class passengers respect based on money.

I think wrcmad was just taking the mickey out of that proposition... stating you'd need to have a pretty big inferiority complex to be prepared to pay 4x the fare just to get people to think you're important.

Business class passengers aren't demanding personal respect because of the fare paid. They're just asking for respect to enjoy the service they've purchased.

 

[PJF]

Amazing how many posts there are for a lack of curtains!

Personally, I couldn't care less about the curtains (or lack thereof). I do find the open toilet policy to be a disruption (figuratively speaking). There is one J lav and 12 pax (QF nearly always fill the J cabin). Add all the WPs and SGs and nobodies seated in the first half of the plane who seem to think they're also entitled to use it and it often becomes a traffic jam which is a disruption to the J ambience (as limited as it is) and a disruption to the J crew trying to correctly service the J pax. I've even experienced one guy doing his stretching exercises between 1C and 1D, impeding upon both of those spaces for which the occupants had supposed exclusive right of use.

I'm not sure whether there is any real policy from QF on this as the most number of times I've flown dom J, there is no control of Y pax inviting themselves to use the J loo, however once (and only once in the past few years) I've been on a flight where Y pax were actively turned back from the J enclave! I think the pre-flight spiel also still states that there are 2 toilets to the rear of the plane for Y pax and 1 at the front for business pax. All it takes is the CS to enforce the policy. That is part of their job IMHO and yet I've often seen them happily chatting to those in the J loo "waiting room" like they have every right to be there. Once more, management of the crew and the crew themselves is the big fall down here.

It seems petty, but when we fly J, we do pay considerably more to have the J benefits and removing cabin exclusivity is a big downfall for QF and one where their domestic competition by far excels over them.

Spot on well said. To infringe on J just to use the J lav when there is no legitimate reason is IMHO just plain wrong.

Also IMHO an invitation from the FA to use the front lav without a legitimate reason is wrong. If the rear toilet has any obvious line and you have legitimate grounds to go forward then go for it no problem and if the ducks don't line up (legitimate reasons and there are a number) then IMHO I personally feel that is being disrespectful to the personal boundaries of the J class passengers irrespective of your status level.

It is easy if appropriate to decline the offer and go to the rear lavs. I do that, I just don't understand what is the real reason that some others don't make similar choices. As Mel said above "Business class passengers aren't demanding personal respect because of the fare paid. They're just asking for respect to enjoy the service they've purchased"

 

[wrcmad]

I think wrcmad was just taking the mickey out of that proposition... stating you'd need to have a pretty big inferiority complex to be prepared to pay 4x the fare just to get people to think you're important.

Thanks MEL.

Apologies if my comment offended. I would like to reiterate that I did say domestic J. And I did say pay.

Envy complex? This just reinforces my point.

I regularly travel the east coast domestic hops, and I stand by my opinion that to outlay 4x the price for a J ticket on any of these short flights defies any rationale I care to dream up.

These 1-2 hour flights are barely long enough to even sit and watch a movie, let alone enjoy the benefits obtained by paying such a big premium (including soaking up all the self-importance that accompanies the premium price tag, curtains or rope barriers). I compare these flights to buses, and sitting up near the driver doesn’t excite me that much, especially given the the differences are barely noticeable anyway on our disappointing selection of domestic business class. Besides, I have usually done all my of “soaking up” in the lounge bar before I even set foot on the bus.

Long haul is a different story, of course.

 

[marki]

Oh my goodness give me aft business section -->any day to avoid the x4 wrcmad stare from burning 4x bigger hole on my occiput. Sometimes we don't have choice secondly it was not clear you were talking about 1-2 hour flights in Dom J before.

Don't like staring at Y -rear-ends. Lning up for J-dunny.

Or being bumped constantly by Y passengers walking up while trying to relax in J.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

well - I was prepared to give the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps not

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I would like to reiterate that I did say domestic J. And I did say pay.

Envy complex? This just reinforces my point.

I regularly travel the east coast domestic hops, and I stand by my opinion that to outlay 4x the price for a J ticket on any of these short flights defies any rationale I care to dream up.

Er, I was thinking you were joking, which is why I placed a big broad grinning emoticon at the end of my envy complex quip!

But to be clear, I do pay for East Coast domestic J on both QF and VA. Approximately 1 flight per fortnight, every fortnight, sometimes more and I honestly didn't think I had to justify that with any rationale to anyone except my wife, but I can say QF J is nearly always full and VA J is often well patronised as well. I'm guessing although many of those will be upgrades, rewards etc, but I'm also very sure I'm not the only one to pay outright. Rarely do I use an upgrade to achieve J unless work has booked me in Y (in fact only twice in the previous 12 months or so) as I normally keep the upgrades for family. My inferiority complex must have got the better of me.

 

[marki]

wrcmad has caused us to write a lot and I for one would like to thank you wrcmad. Otherwise I would just vegetate. Some here on the list would love it if I did more of that vegetative stuff

 

[Hvr]

Am now home and actually had the same crew on the return trip.

Was warmly welcomed back and as we went through the journey I raised the issue of Y pax coming forward. The CSM agreed and said it was an issue for the crew as well. At one stage there were 4-5 Y pax in line. They were moved back.

Another time I went to stand up to go to the toilet and a Y pax got in front of me. They were quickly told to return to Y and go to the rear toilet. The little old lady from Y who was actually using it took forever and when she eventually appeared she then walked back past the exit row!

Apparently the reason for the removal of the curtain was the roof lighting. There are various things being tried behind the scenes but so far nothing has made it to the front line.

For my BNE-MEL flight as soon as the seat belt sign was turned off I reclined (no one behind me) and slept until the prepare for landing announcement. I didn't even notice a fellow AFFer two rows behind me. (Nor did he notice me until we deplaned.) We'll catch up at the Olive Tree tonight.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

The little old lady from Y who was actually using it took forever and when she eventually appeared she then walked back past the exit row!

One thing I will won't do, is tell someone off for using the J loo. I know this is a bit different to your little ol' lady, but I do recall once on VA I was sitting in 2C and someone bumped past me on his way from Y to the J lav. It didn't particularly bother me but I do recall thinking to myself "your facilities are down the back buddy"!

Low and behold, the crew asked all the J pax to remain seated for just a minute as the seat belt sign went off just before disembarkation. The man turned out to be blind and had his perfectly behaved dog curled up on the floor of row 3 right behind me. I had no idea until then that the dog was even there. I also recall thinking to myself, "thank heavens I didn't open my big trap"!

Speaking of inferiority complexes, I might also add on my last trip I offered to give up my J seat on VA between POM and BNE. There was a man about my age who buggered his leg doing Kokoda. 2nd day in and he busted something (knee cruciate perhaps?) as well as having some very sore looking feet all bandaged except his heels which were very red and looked like one huge blister. He finished the trek, which was absolutely incredible. I reckoned any one who completes Kokoda with a busted leg and sore feet over ANZAC Day should have J. My offer was declined as the crew organised him 3 seats across all to himself, whereas J was full and he would have had just my seat. The crew were amazed when I said I really didn't mind, although I was hoping he wasn't in a middle!

 

[kamchatsky]

I have flown VA domestic a lot more, most on Y and sometimes in J, and I have never seen this issue happened in VA.

For the few times I have flown QF domestic, I have seen this issue quite frequently. Whilst I won't tell Y pax to go back, or feel disgruntled, I just don't understand that QF with their billions in profit, cannot implement something similar (or simpler) solution that VA has done. That would resolve most of the issue here.
VA also has The Club similar to QF CL, and I have seen someone from The Club (who sat next to me on a flight) gone to the back of the plane for loo. So I really don't understand QF doesn't do this, especially they tout themselves as premium airline ....

I think VA has done better in domestic J than QF on 737s in general, which is ironic considering that QF J is normally more expensive than VA J.

 

[Pushka]

Am now home and actually had the same crew on the return trip.

Was warmly welcomed back and as we went through the journey I raised the issue of Y pax coming forward. The CSM agreed and said it was an issue for the crew as well. At one stage there were 4-5 Y pax in line. They were moved back.

Another time I went to stand up to go to the toilet and a Y pax got in front of me. They were quickly told to return to Y and go to the rear toilet. The little old lady from Y who was actually using it took forever and when she eventually appeared she then walked back past the exit row!

Apparently the reason for the removal of the curtain was the roof lighting. There are various things being tried behind the scenes but so far nothing has made it to the front line.

For my BNE-MEL flight as soon as the seat belt sign was turned off I reclined (no one behind me) and slept until the prepare for landing announcement. I didn't even notice a fellow AFFer two rows behind me. (Nor did he notice me until we deplaned.) We'll catch up at the Olive Tree tonight.

That sounds pretty rank HVR and that would make me antsy too.

 

[PJF]

Are they saying a slick QF Aviation Engineer can't come up with a solution for some form of a barrier. I find that hard to believe.

 

[PJF]

I have flown VA domestic a lot more, most on Y and sometimes in J, and I have never seen this issue happened in VA.

For the few times I have flown QF domestic, I have seen this issue quite frequently. Whilst I won't tell Y pax to go back, or feel disgruntled, I just don't understand that QF with their billions in profit, cannot implement something similar (or simpler) solution that VA has done. That would resolve most of the issue here.
VA also has The Club similar to QF CL, and I have seen someone from The Club (who sat next to me on a flight) gone to the back of the plane for loo. So I really don't understand QF doesn't do this, especially they tout themselves as premium airline ....

I think VA has done better in domestic J than QF on 737s in general, which is ironic considering that QF J is normally more expensive than VA J.

Premium airline more like "was a premium airline" Feel sorry for the staff though having to deal with this debacle.

 

[straitman]

I just don't understand that QF with their billions in profit, cannot implement something similar (or simpler) solution that VA has done.

Without looking up the numbers I don't believe the 'billions in profit' come close to balancing out the billions in losses.