Hostages Taken in Martin Place

kpc · Dec 21, 2014

She had a cardiac arrest (not heart attack) presumably from massive blood loss.

Princess Fiona · Dec 21, 2014

kpc said:
She had a cardiac arrest (not heart attack) presumably from massive blood loss.

Concur kpc and medhead. The use of the term "heart attack" by the media is/was wrong in this instance.

markis10 · Dec 22, 2014

A week later and it's hard to feel the Christmas spirit in Martin Place that existed before the madness.

ImageUploadedByAustFreqFly1419199578.244580.jpg

QF WP · Dec 22, 2014

Courier Mail said:
Headline- Muslim leaders: Just dump his body at sea

SYDNEY’S chief Islamic *funeral director yesterday declared no Muslim funeral home would accept the body of terrorist Man Haron Monis.

Karma.

Can't post the link, as getting a 400 error from CM website?? Probably been re-written.

Pushka · Dec 22, 2014

The Bride who left her wedding bouquet at the Memorial made a wonderful gesture - the bride was of Muslim faith.

QF WP · Dec 22, 2014

Pushka said:
I wonder why he targetted those two people particularly?

In some ways it's unfortunate he died. He needed to be charged with murder. But then he probably would have received free legal aid. And maybe there would have been other fallout as well during the trial.

My thoughts are that he wanted to target the strong ones, or the ones that railled against him - so the weaker ones would fall into line.

I'm glad we are spending no further money - on remand, court costs and jail would have amounted to a lot of money.

kpc · Dec 22, 2014

markis10 said:
A week later and it's hard to feel the Christmas spirit in Martin Place that existed before the madness.

View attachment 39400

+1 and I went yesterday to leave some flowers....a very poignant and moving flower memorial! Everyone, esp. those in Sydney, should try and get there to have a look and pay their respects; I think the flower tributes have brought out the best of Sydneysiders and Australians The tribute below caught our eye:

If you can't read what it says: "I love you mum, love [Katrina Dawson's daughter]". Hard not to shed a tear...

UP4014 · Dec 22, 2014

Pushka said:
The Bride who left her wedding bouquet at the Memorial made a wonderful gesture - the bride was of Muslim faith.

This is just an observation and I'm not asking for anyone to comment.

I have been standing back watching and listening, and while it is admirable Muslims are standing with other faiths should that not be the norm as we are all Australian.

Why are Muslims being praised for doing what everyone else is doing and they should do with out fuss of fanfare. Why are the media giving such things coverage above and beyond what others are doing.

I care not that a Muslim signed a condolance book or left flowers, just that a person did.

Something for thought.

Matt

medhead · Dec 22, 2014

I think giving attention to such acts is about visibly addressing the perception that the actions of extremists are widely supported in the Muslim community. There is a whole heap of stuff that goes into such a statement and I'm not going to write all the detail. It's a positive demonstration that they are primarily Australians. While I agree with you in principle, I think there are other factors that justify this attention.

UP4014 · Dec 22, 2014

medhead said:
I think giving attention to such acts is about visibly addressing the perception that the actions of extremists are widely supported in the Muslim community. There is a whole heap of stuff that goes into such a statement and I'm not going to write all the detail. It's a positive demonstration that they are primarily Australians. While I agree with you in principle, I think there are other factors that justify this attention.

Where did that perception come from, their lack of denouncement and action in the past re the fact other Muslims are actively out there killing people.

I agree there look to be other factors, thinking about that; if I was a family member of one of the deceased I would not want them using this for other factors. I would not want a prayer vigil, bunch of flowers or signing of a condolence book, they would be doing it for the wrong reason and possibly for their own satisfaction not that of the family.

Matt

medhead · Dec 22, 2014

BAM1748 said:
Where did that perception come from, their lack of denouncement and action in the past re the fact other Muslims are actively out there killing people.

I agree there look to be other factors, thinking about that; if I was a family member of one of the deceased I would not want them using this for other factors. I would not want a prayer vigil, bunch of flowers or signing of a condolence book, they would be doing it for the wrong reason and possibly for their own satisfaction not that of the family.

Matt

Yes there is a whole heap of stuff involved in this topic. On balance I think it is fine to do this now. I fully acknowledge that there are a whole range of factors to consider on this topic. I'm certainly not discounting anything. But I have to apologise because I'm not willing to discuss the details in public further, as I think the timing is wrong.

markis10 · Dec 22, 2014

BAM1748 said:
I agree there look to be other factors, thinking about that; if I was a family member of one of the deceased I would not want them using this for other factors. I would not want a prayer vigil, bunch of flowers or signing of a condolence book, they would be doing it for the wrong reason and possibly for their own satisfaction not that of the family.

Matt

Its not necessarily about the victims, its about the community recovering from a situation that many were affected by, and the reinforcement of the fact it was the act of a madman, not a religion. I am a strong supporter of anything that reinforces a community working together, people of the Muslim faith taking part in activities others are doing is an excellent act in that respect, not expected, but appreciated.

UP4014 · Dec 22, 2014

markis10 said:
Its not necessarily about the victims, its about the community recovering from a situation that many were affected by, and the reinforcement of the fact it was the act of a madman, not a religion. I am a strong supporter of anything that reinforces a community working together, people of the Muslim faith taking part in activities others are doing is an excellent act in that respect, not expected, but appreciated.

I will have to disagree, I actually think the outpouring is about the victims and the fact it could happen to anyone. I don't think the community is recovering anymore than it recovered from the Sydney Hilton bombing all those years ago which I remember as a 12 yo and was at school across the street.

This 'group recovery' seems to be a relatively recent thing and I'm not sure if it's about individuals making themselves feel better or the heard mentality. (not saying either is bad, just a comment)

Although a madman is the root cause (are all terrorists mad?) religion was a major factor in this and cannot be overlooked as without mad and jihad in the same person there may not have the outcome there was in Martin Place.

As I work in Sydney I have walked past the site myself since the attack but did not leave anything except footprints. Another bunch of flowers will not stop this again or change anything for the families.

Matt

OATEK · Dec 22, 2014

I went to the site of the flower memorial the day the siege broke, in my lunch hour. Just to show that the city was still ours, and to show respect to the two innocent victims. I think we expect our leaders to show up as they did, but most others apart from the family did so quietly, and with reverence. So to have a big publicity splash about anyone not directly involved, apart from public officials, does not sit quite right with me. But I can see that there is a need for Muslim people to show they do not agree with the murderous outrage committed there partly in the name of their religion, so not an easy situation.

Himeno · Dec 22, 2014

I wish the media would stop calling it a "terrorist attack". It wasn't. It was a stupid idiot. It isn't "terrorism" unless we allow it to be.

Or are we going to start calling any crime a "terror attack"?

medhead · Dec 22, 2014

Himeno said:
I wish the media would stop calling it a "terrorist attack". It wasn't. It was a stupid idiot. It isn't "terrorism" unless we allow it to be.

Or are we going to start calling any crime a "terror attack"?

Yep I think he is just a criminal that would do anything to distract of his criminality. Iran apparently chasing him for fraud, comes to Australia as a religious leader. Eventually gets caught out as a nonce and murder in Australia, used some pathetic excuse to seek to be seen as a person of principle instead of a scumbag. And people have to die because that animal can't accept he is a low life.

That's my assessment anyway.

Virgin Bart · Dec 22, 2014

medhead said:
Yep I think he is just a criminal that would do anything to distract of his criminality. Iran apparently chasing him for fraud, comes to Australia as a religious leader. Eventually gets caught out as a nonce and murder in Australia, used some pathetic excuse to seek to be seen as a person of principle instead of a scumbag. And people have to die because that animal can't accept he is a low life.

That's my assessment anyway.

I agree with the assessment of him. But I also unequivocally class this as terrorism. It will have lasting flow on effects for our way of life.

Pushka · Dec 22, 2014

Virgin Bart said:
I agree with the assessment of him. But I also unequivocally class this as terrorism. It will have lasting flow on effects for our way of life.

Yes. That last sentence defines terrorism for me too.

medhead · Dec 22, 2014

Fair enough.

No point arguing the semantics of terrorism. It is such a nebulous concept.

Himeno · Dec 22, 2014

Virgin Bart said:
It will have lasting flow on effects for our way of life.

Hostages Taken in Martin Place

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