Hostages Taken in Martin Place

[harvyk]

I’ve been sitting quietly on the sidelines with this event. First of all I’m deeply saddened by this event, I like most others had wanted the whole event to end peacefully, with all hostages let go freely and the gunman arrested.

Now as for some of the comments in this thread. Let me tell you, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it doesn’t mean (insert profanity here). Personally I would have thought that a group of such well-travelled people would have had a much more open mind. Clearly I was wrong.

I have many friends of various religions, and I can assure you that this deranged person does not represent any of them. This is the actions of a person with a serious illness whom decided to try and link their actions with Islam, they were wrong.

If one good thing is to come out of yesterday / today, it’s the #IllRideWithYou hash tag. With any luck this event will actually bring our community closer together, rather than fracture it like this absolute (insert profanity here) tried to do.

 

[UP4014]

I have many friends of various religions, and I can assure you that this deranged person does not represent any of them. This is the actions of a person with a serious illness whom decided to try and link their actions with Islam, they were wrong.

Other than IS, I think you'll find no terrorist is claimed by any religous group. But religion plays a part for these people so cannot be dismissed. (as does mental ilness in cases)

Matt

 

[harvyk]

Other than IS, I think you'll find no terrorist is claimed by any religous group. But religion plays a part for these people so cannot be dismissed. (as does mental ilness in cases)

Matt

People might do things under the name of religion, but that does not mean that it's representative of the views of the average practitioner of said religion, or even have religious backing. If I was to do something evil and had a crucifix around my neck when I did said evil thing does it mean that I was officially sanctioned by the Vatican?

Some people forget that all it takes for a person to claim that their actions have religious backing is to have a platform to make people THINK that their message is a religious one.

 

[Limewood]

Waking up to this horrific act this morning has made us all so, so sad, our hearts go out to the family and friends of the two deceased.

In this day and age there are so many indoctrinated radical religious ratbags who are easily led, yet in reality their murderous acts will never deter sane people.

 

[JohnK]

People might do things under the name of religion, but that does not mean that it's representative of the views of the average practitioner of said religion, or even have religious backing. If I was to do something evil and had a crucifix around my neck when I did said evil thing does it mean that I was officially sanctioned by the Vatican?

Some people forget that all it takes for a person to claim that their actions have religious backing is to have a platform to make people THINK that their message is a religious one.

Apologies but you couldn't be further from the truth.

Have you forgotten 9/11? Have you forgotten the dancing in the streets in Auburn and Lakemba? Was I imagining the images I saw on TV.

But I know your answer. These are extremists.

This is just the beginning. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

 

[medhead]

Not sure where you get your news from, a cleric in his own mind who had taken up the cause.


Sydney siege: Man behind Martin Place stand-off was Iranian Man Haron Monis, who had violent criminal history - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Yeah thanks for a link to story that says he was a criminal with no association to any group and that raises the issues he had in prison. Exactly what I wrote. The only cause he'd taken up was his own avoidance of gaol for his criminal behaviour. I have to ask what news you're reading because this one doesn't support your conclusion.

But his lawyer Manny Conditsis also pointed out that "His ideology is just so strong and so powerful that it clouds his vision..."

And I imagine his time in prison was similar to many who find themselves on indecent and sexual assault charges, rightly or wrongly, although I am sure his belief system added to the rough justice of the correctional institutions.

So its a bit of unbalanced person, with strong beliefs, who is absolutely convinced his beliefs allow him to do things that Australian law forbids. But seemingly not a "mainstream" terrorist attack in support of IS or similar.

Wasn't he in prison for murder. The sex related charge where made after he was released on bail.

Religion seems to be nothing more than his excuse rather than motivation.

 

[medhead]

Other than IS, I think you'll find no terrorist is claimed by any religous group. But religion plays a part for these people so cannot be dismissed. (as does mental ilness in cases)

Matt

Yeah? Timothy Mcveigh was a Christian. What's your point?

 

[UP4014]

People might do things under the name of religion, but that does not mean that it's representative of the views of the average practitioner of said religion, or even have religious backing. If I was to do something evil and had a crucifix around my neck when I did said evil thing does it mean that I was officially sanctioned by the Vatican?

Some people forget that all it takes for a person to claim that their actions have religious backing is to have a platform to make people THINK that their message is a religious one.

All true, but it's not what it is your mind or mine, it is what is in these people minds, often religion of which they are more easily influenced. When we can't explain something "deranged" is a word that comes out to explain things and people, but the fact this person was known for his religious views and criminal past make me consider other options that could of been taken.

People that use logic and reason respond differently but not everyone does use logic and reason when it comes to such things.

 

[serfty]

... It is not the same God. ... The 2 religions are poles apart. ...

This is incorrect - in relation to the mainstream beliefs for these major religions – Christianity, Judaism and Islam – all worship the same God as whom Abraham is documented as having worshipped long, long, ago. They each believe in this one God as being the sole source of justice and morality.

What has occurred from time to time, period to period, over millennia is that various groups and individuals have hidden behind their "belief" in god, corrupting it to invoke their own non peaceful desires and aims on others.

 

[UP4014]

Yeah? Timothy Mcveigh was a Christian. What's your point?

Thanks, my point is all religions have extreme ends, Catholics have killed people and in fact did so for decades until 2001.

 

[harvyk]

Apologies but you couldn't be further from the truth.

Have you forgotten 9/11? Have you forgotten the dancing in the streets in Auburn and Lakemba? Was I imagining the images I saw on TV.

But I know your answer. These are extremists.

This is just the beginning. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

You are right, they are extremists, nothing more, and extremists are nothing more than thugs whom use a book to feel righteous in their thuggery, end of story.
As for "be afraid", no, I refuse to be afraid. I have not forgotten the events of prior, however I also refuse to let fear rule my life.

Now I'm going to bow out before I start telling people what I really think of their views and risk a holiday from AFF... :evil:

 

[stoneman]

And then there's the judge whom granted bail - enjoying their coffee this morning.... Wonder how that works ??

 

[markis10]

Religion seems to be nothing more than his excuse rather than motivation.

Agree, religion really seems to have nothing to do with what happened at the core.

 

[medhead]

And medhead is now a Theologian as well that understands the belief structure of all religions. Well done. I did not realise you were so important.

How dare you discuss religion and put down my religious beliefs? If you are indeed religious you are a blasphemer. It is not the same God. ... The 2 religions are poles apart. One is pure evil and it is isn't my religion.

I have never said they are the same religion. I certainly haven't put down your religious beliefs, if you even have any.

Equating god and a particular religion is the position of an imbecile. That is the thinking that creates terrorism.

The fact remains Jews, Christians and Muslim all worship the one true god. No need to be a theologian to know that, all it takes is half a brain and a little bit of history.

 

[medhead]

Thanks, my point is all religions have extreme ends, Catholics have killed people and in fact did so for decades until 2001.

Religion is their is excuse. Religion doesn't create their acts. All Christians aren't Mcveigh exactly the same way that all Muslims are not terrorists.

 

[Denali]

This is just the beginning. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

No. I cant be because Im too busy getting on with living my life as peacefully as I can.

We are no where near having to live our lives in fear, being afraid to leave our homes. No where near that point. Seems this guy was just an coughhole, a sick self indulgent one but just an ahole. Sadly, innocent people have paid the price.

And I hope someone can educate me on the split 3-3 high court decision where he challenged for his right to send hate letters to the families of dead servicemen. Cant believe he came within one vote of being given the legal go ahead that it was acceptable/legally allowed.

 

[UP4014]

Religion is their is excuse. Religion doesn't create their acts. All Christians aren't Mcveigh exactly the same way that all Muslims are not terrorists.

But some are, and it only takes .1% to wreck it for everyone.

 

[Alanslegal]

And I hope someone can educate me on the split 3-3 high court decision where he challenged for his right to send hate letters to the families of dead servicemen. Cant believe he came within one vote of being given the legal go ahead that it was acceptable/legally allowed.

I haven't read the case or followed this however thankfully we have system which we call the rule of law and due process. Due process is a very very important factor of our system, and overall the legal system as a whole works well.

 

[Limewood]

out on bail when on such serious charges and his record, I mean really.

 

[Pushka]

I haven't read the case or followed this however thankfully we have system which we call the rule of law and due process. Due process is a very very important factor of our system, and overall the legal system as a whole works well.

I'm not sure how the parole system works when he was on parole for the murder of his wife, in light of all his criminal history.

Clearly the man had a mental illness. He distorted reality including his religion.