Hostages Taken in Martin Place

[burmans]

And medhead is now a Theologian as well that understands the belief structure of all religions. Well done. I did not realise you were so important.

How dare you discuss religion and put down my religious beliefs? If you are indeed religious you are a blasphemer. It is not the same God. ... The 2 religions are poles apart. One is pure evil and it is isn't my religion.

Just love the moral outrage. If you feel free yourself to attack others religion you need to get a thick skin. Kind of remind me of the quotation about throwing stones.

As for the same God, you don't need to be a Theologian yourself because this is well documented by those Theologians.

Fundamentalists are a serious problem to us but fundamentalists exists in all religious cultures and you are exhibiting some of those traits.

 

[Pushka]

Why can't all get along:

The Jews, who rejected Jesus as a prophet, called him an imposter, while the Christians, on the other hand, considered him to be the son of God and worship him as such. Islam considers Jesus to be one of the greatest and most forbearing of prophets, in addition to Noah, Abraham, Moses and Muhammad, peace be upon them.

 

[UP4014]

Why can't all get along:

The Jews, who rejected Jesus as a prophet, called him an imposter, while the Christians, on the other hand, considered him to be the son of God and worship him as such. Islam considers Jesus to be one of the greatest and most forbearing of prophets, in addition to Noah, Abraham, Moses and Muhammad, peace be upon them.

As I don't believe in any god it's easy for me to tollerate all religions at the same the level.

Matt

 

[Pushka]

As I don't believe in any god it's easy for me to tollerate all religions at the same the level.

Matt

Yes. Yes. Yes.

 

[QF WP]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Having a cuppa for the Lindt Cafe hostage victims #cuppaforLindtCafe

 

[Denali]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Having a cuppa for the Lindt Cafe hostage victims #cuppaforLindtCafe

I don't understand, what is the point? People sitting around, sipping their cuppa's and thinking they have contributed to a horrible situation? What am I missing?

Edit: No disrespect to you, just the entire hashtag/Ive made the world a better place movement. I don't get it.

 

[QF WP]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

Plenty of stories now in the papers:

Sydney siege ends: survivor Marcia Mikhael's messages of hope
Sydney siege ends: Family of ex-wife Noleen Hayson Pal furious gunman on bail
Lindt Cafe hostage drama in Martin Place, Sydney: day two
Sydney siege ends: Relief for family of hostage Harriette Denny after dramatic escape
Sydney siege ends: Barrister Katrina Dawson confirmed as 38-year-old woman killed in Martin Place

 

[QF WP]

I don't understand, what is the point? People sitting around, sipping their cuppa's and thinking they have contributed to a horrible situation? What am I missing?

Edit: No disrespect to you, just the entire hashtag/Ive made the world a better place movement. I don't get it.

My point is to show support for those who have lost their life and those whose lives have changed forever (families of the victims). They will live with the horror daily, we will move on with our lives and irregularly think of them at anniversaries. I sat quietly for 10 minutes and thought about the terrible situation over which they had little control. YMMV. Perhaps my emotions are different to yours - I had to pull over onto a side street when on the way to work when ABC Radio played "I'll Stand By You" by The Pretenders. Why them - what singled them out. Fate

Anyway, enough, as I'm starting to get emotional again. I respect you, however please respect those who want to express in their own small way, support for the victims of a meaningless act. It's better than bottling your emotions up and exploding at an inopportune time.

 

[Pushka]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

I don't understand, what is the point? People sitting around, sipping their cuppa's and thinking they have contributed to a horrible situation? What am I missing?

Edit: No disrespect to you, just the entire hashtag/Ive made the world a better place movement. I don't get it.

No. It shows that people are thinking of the victims of this tragedy. Sometimes that is all we can do.

 

[UP4014]

My point is to show support for those who have lost their life and those whose lives have changed forever (families of the victims). They will live with the horror daily, we will move on with our lives and irregularly think of them at anniversaries. I sat quietly for 10 minutes and thought about the terrible situation over which they had little control. YMMV. Perhaps my emotions are different to yours - I had to pull over onto a side street when on the way to work when ABC Radio played "I'll Stand By You" by The Pretenders. Why them - what singled them out. Fate

Anyway, enough, as I'm starting to get emotional again. I respect you, however please respect those who want to express in their own small way, support for the victims of a meaningless act. It's better than bottling your emotions up and exploding at an inopportune time.

I think I would as well. If I wanted a coffee and was walking past 2 places I would go to Lindt. Sure it's a company but I wonder if any here supported Ansett in the dying days.

 

[get me outta here]

Re: The totally off-topic thread

I don't understand, what is the point? People sitting around, sipping their cuppa's and thinking they have contributed to a horrible situation? What am I missing?

Edit: No disrespect to you, just the entire hashtag/Ive made the world a better place movement. I don't get it.

Having been through a traumatic event myself, I know that feeling supported by strangers showing empathy either in person or acknowledging it at a distance is actually very useful. Otherwise, victims may feel very much that others can't possibly understand what you may be going through.

 

[Buzzard]

Exactly. They are just bad people.

Just because somebody is an atheist does not make them a bad person.
It's the same as saying that because somebody is (insert religion of choice) they are a bad person.

Atheist (a noun) simply means a person who denies or disbelieves the existance of a supreme being or beings.

 

[Pushka]

I think I would as well. If I wanted a coffee and was walking past 2 places I would go to Lindt. Sure it's a company but I wonder if any here supported Ansett in the dying days.

We certainly did. And sadly lost a chunk of money when our booked flights were cancelled.

 

[JohnK]

Just love the moral outrage. If you feel free yourself to attack others religion you need to get a thick skin. Kind of remind me of the quotation about throwing stones.

As for the same God, you don't need to be a Theologian yourself because this is well documented by those Theologians.

Fundamentalists are a serious problem to us but fundamentalists exists in all religious cultures and you are exhibiting some of those traits.

You aren't serious are you?

I am sorry to say there is no similarity between Christianity and Islam.

...

And that is my opinion. Doesn't make me a fundamentalist, a bigot or a hater. You are entitled to your opinion.

Oh and one other thing. I am tolerant of all religions, including atheists, that tolerate others. But you can continue to put your own spin on it.

 

[Princess Fiona]

The 2 religions are poles apart. One is pure evil and it is isn't my religion.

You aren't serious are you?

I am sorry to say there is no similarity between Christianity and Islam.

...

And that is my opinion. Doesn't make me a fundamentalist, a bigot or a hater. You are entitled to your opinion.

Oh and one other thing. I am tolerant of all religions, including atheists, that tolerate others. But you can continue to put your own spin on it.

Calling someone's religion "pure evil" doesn't show any tolerance at all IMO
The vast majority of followers of Islam are tolerant, peaceful people.

 

[burmans]

You aren't serious are you?

I am sorry to say there is no similarity between Christianity and Islam.

Yes I am serious, the origins of the Islamic religion and their beliefs are well documented by Theologians.

 

[Pushka]

Just because somebody is an atheist does not make them a bad person.
It's the same as saying that because somebody is (insert religion of choice) they are a bad person.

Atheist (a noun) simply means a person who denies or disbelieves the existance of a supreme being or beings.

Um, I am an atheist.....

 

[nlagalle]

I'm not sure how the parole system works when he was on parole for the murder of his wife, in light of all his criminal history.

He wasn't on "parole" for the murder of his wife.. he was charged as an accessory which the judge indicated the evidence was weak and was released on bail.

 

[Alanslegal]

I'm not sure how the parole system works when he was on parole for the murder of his wife, in light of all his criminal history.

Clearly the man had a mental illness. He distorted reality including his religion.

It's called due process, feel free to google that and read what it means, however essentially it means going through the legal process, formally and heard before a fair and impartial court.

The accussed has their right to be heard, similarly the ODPP has their right to be heard - decisions and judgments are then made. Further to this, the right of appeal (both by the accused and the ODPP) is available. This due process is available to everyone before the courts.

Why was he allowed out on bail for the 'accessory to murder charge'? Well as above, everyone is entitled to have their matter heard before the Court as expeditously as possible. The detaining of a person without being convicted of a crime is a severe personal liberty intrusion. (Think about someone forcing you somewhere without your consent). Thus a person should have their matter heard before a court as early as possible, usually the first step is an application for bail ie. to be released on conditions pending the trial of the alleged crimes. The judge who heard the bail application said the case was 'very weak'. Maybe if it was a strong case he would have made a different decision. However the DPP, as part of the right to appeal, could have appealed that matter to review the granting of bail. They didn't. Furthermore, the Attorney General could have intervened, again the AG didn't. It appears the prosecution knew the case was weak and didn't really want to challenge something that appeared they had not good prospects of succeeding at appeal.

 

[drron]

Well if it weighs the same as a duck... it's a witch!

I’ve been sitting quietly on the sidelines with this event. First of all I’m deeply saddened by this event, I like most others had wanted the whole event to end peacefully, with all hostages let go freely and the gunman arrested.

Now as for some of the comments in this thread. Let me tell you, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it doesn’t mean (insert profanity here). Personally I would have thought that a group of such well-travelled people would have had a much more open mind. Clearly I was wrong.

I have many friends of various religions, and I can assure you that this deranged person does not represent any of them. This is the actions of a person with a serious illness whom decided to try and link their actions with Islam, they were wrong.

If one good thing is to come out of yesterday / today, it’s the #IllRideWithYou hash tag. With any luck this event will actually bring our community closer together, rather than fracture it like this absolute (insert profanity here) tried to do.

Thanks for the criticism fellas.However it did turn out to be a duck.
Just to make one point I am going to use a word I deliberately left out before and avoided by not using the whole translation on the black flag produced by the perpetrator of this horrible crime.No where have I pointed the blame at Islam.However I believe it is extremely naïve and counter productive to keep trying to deny that these crimes are nothing to do with Islam.They are carried out in Islam's name.
What the detractors also have not pointed out is that ISIS is an extreme form of the Sunni sect.To them those of the Shia sect are not muslims at all.
Why is this important?This month the perpetrator converted from Shia to Sunni and pledged allegiance to the caliph.If this fellow was on a watch list why wasn't this picked up and he be placed on a higher degree of surveillance.One good thing about being OS is being able to access info denied to Australians.Here is a preserved copy of the perpetrator's web site-but don't access if you do not wish to see confronting images-
Sheikh Haron's website: The Sydney hostage taker's site is down. We saved a copy. - Vox

And yes the majority of muslims do not support ISIS.Interesting surveys released earlier this year-
One in six French people say they support ISIS - Vox

People living in Gaza are more likely to have an unfavourable view of ISIS than citizens of France or the UK.

Just to point out another reason that to point out that a crime is committed in the name of a religion or race does not mean you are opposed to that religion or race.As I pointed out in the OT thread December is the 77th anniversary of the Rape of Nanking carried out by the Japanese.During my work I came into contact with several people who had experienced despicable treatment at the hands of the Japanese in WW2.
So do I hate the Japanese.Definitely not.I love Japan and the Japanese people.But I have no respect for the many Japanese politicians who still deny atrocities committed during their wars of the 30s and 40s.

I do feel awful at the thought of what those hostages went through.It may seem stupid to some but we will have some Lindt chocolate today.It just feels the right thing to do.And just like QF WP I am now going to take a needed break.