Would you fly Garuda?

[JohnK]

Not sure I would ever fly Garuda or many other airlines but that has nothing to do with their record or reputation and is more to do with me flying a particular alliance where I have status and Garuda does not really fly where I want to go and I do not want to transit Jakarta.

 

[Geegeela]

It is not only their safety record.

The reprehensible way they treated my daughter on the ground is enough for me to never use their sub-standard product.

 

[LiamR]

As I've said before....Personally I wouldn't, somebody I was quite close to died on the Garuda flight that crashed several years ago.

 

[Sprucegoose]

As I've said before....Personally I wouldn't, somebody I was quite close to died on the Garuda flight that crashed several years ago.

And that flight disaster was entirely down to Pilot error.

 

[thewinchester]

I wouldn't fly any Indonesian carrier on safety grounds.

I think that's quite harsh, and that fear is - in the case of GA today - unfounded.

Firstly, there have been no safety incidents of significance at the carrier since the 2007 Yogyakarta crash. The carrier is no longer on the European ban list (which conversely removes them from the US list as well). Further, the carrier has undertaken a process of massive overhaul since 2009 turning the whole airline on its head.

There has been a massive program of fleet and hard product renewal, with 14 A330's in service (split across the -2 and -3 variants), and 16 still to come along with 10x 777-3ER from Boeing. They have totally overhauled their food service offerings and introduced AVOD across their entire domestic fleet (something QF still hasn't managed).

The carrier has also been innovating in service areas, not withstanding the introduction of the world's first immigration on-board process. This allows their staff to do the clearance and visa work for immigration in the air, and every passenger cleared in the air gets an express pass to sail through a dedicated queue on arrival.

And of course there's also been the work behind the scenes, with the carrier establishing their own internal training colleges and having invested I believe over USD 1 billion in this area to keep its staff skilled, current and on the ball.

And to cap it all off, GA will join Skyteam during 2012 and was awarded the 2010 Skytrax most improved airline award.

So if you add all of that together with the fact a major airline alliance is granting them admission, I'd be more than happy to fly GA and put my friends and family on board as well.

 

[Sprucegoose]

I think that's quite harsh, and that fear is - in the case of GA today - unfounded.

Firstly, there have been no safety incidents of significance at the carrier since the 2007 Yogyakarta crash. The carrier is no longer on the European ban list (which conversely removes them from the US list as well). Further, the carrier has undertaken a process of massive overhaul since 2009 turning the whole airline on its head.

There has been a massive program of fleet and hard product renewal, with 14 A330's in service (split across the -2 and -3 variants), and 16 still to come along with 10x 777-3ER from Boeing. They have totally overhauled their food service offerings and introduced AVOD across their entire domestic fleet (something QF still hasn't managed).

The carrier has also been innovating in service areas, not withstanding the introduction of the world's first immigration on-board process. This allows their staff to do the clearance and visa work for immigration in the air, and every passenger cleared in the air gets an express pass to sail through a dedicated queue on arrival.

And of course there's also been the work behind the scenes, with the carrier establishing their own internal training colleges and having invested I believe over USD 1 billion in this area to keep its staff skilled, current and on the ball.

And to cap it all off, GA will join Skyteam during 2012 and was awarded the 2010 Skytrax most improved airline award.

So if you add all of that together with the fact a major airline alliance is granting them admission, I'd be more than happy to fly GA and put my friends and family on board as well.

Yes I believe there was a strong alliance with Lufthansa initially, I am not sure of the latest management incentives and what has driven them.

I have done a lot of travel on Garuda. I know of one instance, a crew member slipped to me 'this will be a good flight, we have an Australian pilot on board'. something i never forgot and probably typifies the issues at the time.

I don't know about the latest issues, suffice to say the Europeans would not have lifted their travel bans unless they were satisfed on demonstrable systemic improvements.

 

[Stephen65]

And that flight disaster was entirely down to Pilot error.

I don't think the expression "pilot error" adequately covers a situation where a pilot lands, without flaps, at close to double the usual landing speed, all the while ignoring pleas from the co-pilot to go around and no less than fifteen automated warning alarms.

That's more like "pilot suicide attempt".

 

[Sprucegoose]

I don't think the expression "pilot error" adequately covers a situation where a pilot lands, without flaps, at close to double the usual landing speed, all the while ignoring pleas from the co-pilot to go around and no less than fifteen automated warning alarms.

That's more like "pilot suicide attempt".

official reports are deviod of colourful emotion!

 

[straitman]

I don't think the expression "pilot error" adequately covers a situation where a pilot lands, without flaps, at close to double the usual landing speed, all the while ignoring pleas from the co-pilot to go around and no less than fifteen automated warning alarms.

That's more like "pilot suicide attempt".

I don't agree.

The pilot could have done many much more dramatic things if it was a suicide attempt. The airline clearly had cultural problems that allowed the situation to get to where the pilot did what he did. These are much more significant than any one pilot stuffing up.

 

[Stephen65]

I was being slightly flippant but I still think "pilot error" understates the magnitude of what was, if not intentional, an almost incomprehensible level of recklessness by the pilot.

 

[Sprucegoose]

That's more like "pilot suicide attempt".

the classic 'successful' suicide attempt was the Silk Air flight around christmas 1997?

It came down near a job we were working on.

A mate of mine checked in on that flight, only to take a call from his boss his meeting in Singapore was cancelled. He left the boarding lounge.

BP is now framed in his office.

SilkAir 185: Pilot Suicide? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Did a trip to Bali with Garuda a few years ago. First and last time l'll ever step onto a Garuda plane.

 

[The Rok]

I have flown them from perth to bali before and cannot say I had any problems, although it is a fairly short flight. I am doing it again in March with Garuda, same route, their flight times are better than Virgin.

 

[elemist]

I think that's quite harsh, and that fear is - in the case of GA today - unfounded.

Firstly, there have been no safety incidents of significance at the carrier since the 2007 Yogyakarta crash. The carrier is no longer on the European ban list (which conversely removes them from the US list as well). Further, the carrier has undertaken a process of massive overhaul since 2009 turning the whole airline on its head.

There has been a massive program of fleet and hard product renewal, with 14 A330's in service (split across the -2 and -3 variants), and 16 still to come along with 10x 777-3ER from Boeing. They have totally overhauled their food service offerings and introduced AVOD across their entire domestic fleet (something QF still hasn't managed).

The carrier has also been innovating in service areas, not withstanding the introduction of the world's first immigration on-board process. This allows their staff to do the clearance and visa work for immigration in the air, and every passenger cleared in the air gets an express pass to sail through a dedicated queue on arrival.

And of course there's also been the work behind the scenes, with the carrier establishing their own internal training colleges and having invested I believe over USD 1 billion in this area to keep its staff skilled, current and on the ball.

And to cap it all off, GA will join Skyteam during 2012 and was awarded the 2010 Skytrax most improved airline award.

So if you add all of that together with the fact a major airline alliance is granting them admission, I'd be more than happy to fly GA and put my friends and family on board as well.

As others have commented, i'm sure there must have been big improvements otherwise they wouldn't be allowed to fly to the EU. It's going to take a bit more than just 4 years without crashing to build my confidence in them.

If i can avoid travelling with them, i certainly would. Maybe in a couple of years time once they have 5 -6 years of flying without a serious crash then i would consider flying with them.

Sure all airlines have problems - i mean look at the recent Qantas track record for engine's failing etc. But Garuda just has such a poor reputation and bad history that i just don't see how people can turn around and ignore that after just 4 years.

 

[Archphoto]

Swimming is higher on my list than flying Garuda.

Me too. . . . . . and I can't swim!:mrgreen:

 

[stomplad]

I'm flying to Jakarta tomorrow on QF. Reading this post is not making me any happier.
I had considered flying Garuda, but decided I was still not too sure of their safety standards to risk it. I know the EU has allowed them back in, but I would still like to see a couple more years track record. Like others, I have flown my fair share of dodgy airlines (Aeroflot in 1992 being a memorable one), but try and avoid those these days.

How was your QF flight to Jakarta?

 

[stomplad]

I think that's quite harsh, and that fear is - in the case of GA today - unfounded.

Firstly, there have been no safety incidents of significance at the carrier since the 2007 Yogyakarta crash. The carrier is no longer on the European ban list (which conversely removes them from the US list as well). Further, the carrier has undertaken a process of massive overhaul since 2009 turning the whole airline on its head.

There has been a massive program of fleet and hard product renewal, with 14 A330's in service (split across the -2 and -3 variants), and 16 still to come along with 10x 777-3ER from Boeing. They have totally overhauled their food service offerings and introduced AVOD across their entire domestic fleet (something QF still hasn't managed).

The carrier has also been innovating in service areas, not withstanding the introduction of the world's first immigration on-board process. This allows their staff to do the clearance and visa work for immigration in the air, and every passenger cleared in the air gets an express pass to sail through a dedicated queue on arrival.

And of course there's also been the work behind the scenes, with the carrier establishing their own internal training colleges and having invested I believe over USD 1 billion in this area to keep its staff skilled, current and on the ball.

And to cap it all off, GA will join Skyteam during 2012 and was awarded the 2010 Skytrax most improved airline award.

So if you add all of that together with the fact a major airline alliance is granting them admission, I'd be more than happy to fly GA and put my friends and family on board as well.

THanks for that well thought out reply. Good to have some facts and stats to consider alongside anecdotal replies.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

THanks for that well thought out reply. Good to have some facts and stats to consider alongside anecdotal replies.

SYD-DPS
Can't remember what plane it was, but it felt older than QF's 767's :shock:

Take off from Sydney, I honestly felt that there wouldn't be enough tarmac left. The take off was so slow, l was bracing for an impact into Botany Bay. No joke.
Pilot managed to lift the bird with what felt like a 'just in the nick of time' scenario.
During the flight, the right wing was making a creaking sound. I can't describe it and have never never heard it before/again on any other plane l've been on. Just hearing that sound kept me 'on edge' for the duration of the flight. It really did stress me out. I had Air Crash Investigators running through my mind the whole time. Would l be staring in the next episode?

Return flight was same (noise in wing, possibly the same aircraft), Red Eye and l got bugger all sleep.


However, service in Y was good
Hot towel
Welcome drink - juice
Hot meal
Drinks throughout flight
Friendly FA's - but l did feel they had the SQ robotic feel and couldn't really give a rats

Would l fly Garuda again, l'll pass thanks. Especially if you can snag a cheap JQ J fare, not that l'd be going back to Indonesia in a hurry anyways...

 

[haydensydney]

I agree with thewinchester.

I feel that no matter what Garuda does, some members on AFF will never change their view on the airline.

Some comments in the media:

Garuda was recognised as ‘Most Improved Airline 2010’ by the influential Skytrax rating agency in the 2010 World Airline Awards – and declared an internationally recognised and accepted operation by the IATA Operational Safety Audit. [article here]

The International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) is praising flag carrier Garuda Indonesia’s improvements in safety and service in the past four years. “There have been so many tremendous changes at Garuda, it’s as if I’m visiting a different company this time around,” ICAO president Roberto Kobeh Gonzales told reporters when visiting the Garuda Indonesia Training Center (GITC) in Duri Kosambi, West Jakarta, on Wednesday. [article here]

The airline recently received praise from the International Civil Aviation Organisation for improvements made over the past four years and now has regular International Air Transport Association Operational Safety audits. [article here]

I often read the comments that people have made on here about Garuda, ironically the same comments that they have been saying for years, and it appears (clearly) that these members just hold a xenophobic view of the airline which will unlikely change now or in years to come. I pose a question to those that say "Never fly Garuda" - what will it actually take before you can trust the airline again? What proof do you need to change your opinion [or will it never change]? Is it just the absence of crashes that will make you feel warm and fuzzy about the carrier?

 

[Archphoto]

I agree with thewinchester.

I feel that no matter what Garuda does, some members on AFF will never change their view on the airline.. . . . . I often read the comments that people have made on here about Garuda, ironically the same comments that they have been saying for years, and it appears (clearly) that these members just hold a xenophobic view of the airline which will unlikely change now or in years to come. I pose a question to those that say "Never fly Garuda" - what will it actually take before you can trust the airline again? What proof do you need to change your opinion [or will it never change]? Is it just the absence of crashes that will make you feel warm and fuzzy about the carrier?

I'm certainly don't hold a "xenophobic view of the airline", I just have to admit that after my experience, (and the problems they had previously) I don't feel *safe* flying with them whereas, I've flown throughout Asia on China's different fleets, and felt safe. Why? I can't explain it, other than the combination of these experiences (and I agree with Oneworldplus2's experience as well, regarding take off), just means I'm not comfortable with them at this point.

What proof do I need to change my opinion? Hmmmm, tough question. I honestly can't say - maybe a more serious approach to safety would help (step ladders and a hammer to fix faulty flaps doesn't really cut it), in the future, if I had to fly with them due to date/routing/cost, and I had no other choice, I'd have to bite the bullet and maybe my opinion would change, but for now, I'd rather fly with another carrier.

Maybe after a few years with Skytrax, I'll review my opinion, and it will be more favourable. But for now, my reluctance to fly with Garuda remains and if that means (in your opinion) I have a "xenophobic view of the airline" fine. Feeling safe when I fly (and at one time flying for me was like catching a bus every day) is paramount - I really don't need the extra stress and if not flying with a certain carrier, removes that, wonderful. :mrgreen: