Would you complain if Qantas took your 75K points after the 18 month expiry date?

[p--and--t]

No these schemes are way past ‘Flying’ schemes - they are ‘Loyalty Schemes’ now - enrol and earn pts when you fly - when you use one of our Credit Cards - when you buy our wine - when you buy from our online store - when you shop at WW - when you input your FF number in 1,000 other scenarios - way past ‘Flying’

EXACTLY. A loyalty scheme - Tell me how "loyal" he was ???

Despite a veritable million ways to earn hundreds of thousands of points per annum with hardly any effort, Joe Blow couldn't manage 1 (ONE) point in 18 months.

I'll lend him 50cents to call someone that cares.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

nk doing this would make it much clearer for people. That said, you'd still get poor repor

There are enough facts out there which PROVE that sending emails reminding folks their points are about to expire DOES NOT WORK.
If you've not earned in 18 months, you're not opening the emails either.

It's a feel-good idea, but in practical terms, it doesn't achieve anything aside from more email wastage.

Heck - I've had miles expire in programs. I knew the rules. I wasn't engaged, and certainly not loyal to the program.

No these schemes are way past ‘Flying’ schemes - they are ‘Loyalty Schemes’ now - enrol and earn pts when you fly - when you use one of our Credit Cards - when you buy our wine - when you buy from our online store - when you shop at WW - when you input your FF number in 1,000 other scenarios - way past ‘Flying’

Loyalty Programs... sure
Marketing Programs... sure
More-addictive-than-coffee Programs... sure

But definitely not 'Schemes' of any type.

 

[RichardMEL]

Let's not forget that this guy says he wants to redeem for a trip to the Gold Coast.

I bet you my P1 card this is exactly the sort who would try to redeem two weeks before school holidays to go and then cough to the paper there are no seats available.

Sorry mate. You're an adult. Your responsibility.

 

[eminere]

Sorry mate. You're an adult. Your responsibility.

This.

 

[samh004]

There are enough facts out there which PROVE that sending emails reminding folks their points are about to expire DOES NOT WORK.
If you've not earned in 18 months, you're not opening the emails either.

It's a feel-good idea, but in practical terms, it doesn't achieve anything aside from more email wastage.

The reason I suggested it was because email is more environmentally friendly than paper mail... but even then, you may have moved addresses and forgotten to update your details. There is no easy fix to this beyond points that do not expire, but such a solution only makes everyone else's points worth less as the program looks to absorb this cost.

Heck - I've had miles expire in programs. I knew the rules. I wasn't engaged, and certainly not loyal to the program.

I recently let some AA points expire... it was such a low balance and topping them up would have cost me more than they were worth. I received plenty of messages about their impending demise and even one afterwards offering them back for a fee... which still was too much

 

[RichardMEL]

There are enough facts out there which PROVE that sending emails reminding folks their points are about to expire DOES NOT WORK.
If you've not earned in 18 months, you're not opening the emails either.

It's a feel-good idea, but in practical terms, it doesn't achieve anything aside from more email wastage.

In this case you're probably right... but then what would you have them (QFF) do (apart from no expiry on points). I mean if the customer is not engaged they're unlikely to login to their account on a regular basis, so a banner notice or something would be about as useful as the email.

(having said that, the fact that QF specifically do not sow expiry dates on their account summary page - on purpose - does not sit very well with me - until UA recently removed expiry it was VERY clear when one's miles expired - it was on the account summary and in the app).

So if emails aren't read, and say a notice or alert on the membership website doesn't work.. then what?

In the past I have seen people say QF should call people to let them know. Apart from how labour intensive (I suppose a robocool might work, but that may be seen as annoying too)... it doesn't seem practical. In a program of 13m members, one could assume that housands expire every month.. are they to call them all 3 months out? 2 months? And say they call 3 months out then the member forgets and does nothing?

it's a slippery slope where there will ALWAYS be an argument or person to prove that whatever methods one uses to communicate are somehow not enough.

I still feel that if someone signs up to these things they should be aware.. specially if they have a goal in mind for the points.

I remember the last big kerfuffle was the members in question had heavy chemo treatment they came through and lost their points because they were focused on that - at least that seems more worthy than some guy who just didn't care enough to do the simplist thing

... and then whine when offered a challenge.

Again it's not like QF said "nope. sod off." they said hey earn from two partners and you can have your points back. It's not like the guy has no options here.

I have little sympathy for someone who just isn't invested enough to understanbd and follow the basics. yes, I'm a nasty pasty!

 

[RichardMEL]

soapbox

When did our society become one of entitlement rather than self responsibiility?

/soapbox

 

[Dr Ralph]

soapbox

When did our society become one of entitlement rather than self responsibiility?

/soapbox

1998.

 

[33kft]

When did our society become one of entitlement rather than self responsibiility?

Given the perjoratives involved (QF crooks robbing battlers of their hard earned points) I would suspect Today Tonight and ACA culture would have something to do with it

 

[RichardMEL]

Sorry that's a tangent rant o fmine. Just seems so many (not all) these days expect so much and somehow it's not their fault they weren't aware or didn't catch the detail or whatever. Granted, some situations they really are unfair and hide gotchyas, but in general seems to this old man that if things don't go as some expect they jump up and down and demand they get what they think they deserve. Now get off my lawn!

 

[Vic]

If we adjust everything to suit the lowest common denominator, it will not be in our interests, and I tend to think of it as a lazy tax for those who coast through life without bothering to put in the effort to learn, understand and optimize available options.

Yet, so many other things in life are reduced to the lowest common denominator. Take the roads for example. Plenty of nice roads with a 50 speed limit and speed humps every 50 m that mean you have to drive at about 20. I can drive at the speed limit, and not speed, this is not in my interests. But someone has decided to pander to the lowest common demonator and punish everyone else.

That's our society for you

 

[Vic]

There are enough facts out there which PROVE that sending emails reminding folks their points are about to expire DOES NOT WORK.
If you've not earned in 18 months, you're not opening the emails either.

It's a feel-good idea, but in practical terms, it doesn't achieve anything aside from more email wastage.

Heck - I've had miles expire in programs. I knew the rules. I wasn't engaged, and certainly not loyal to the program.



Loyalty Programs... sure
Marketing Programs... sure
More-addictive-than-coffee Programs... sure

But definitely not 'Schemes' of any type.

Disagree. I've had a couple of not engaged programs where I got emails, MH and SQ. I looked and acted. MH 500 points going to expiry - ok. SQ your account is going to be closed - tried to do something but unsuccessful. Both were at least 6 months in advance.

Qantas send out a million pointless emails a day now (no qantas I'm not looking for a trip to south africa) why not a specific email about points expiry, like so many other programs? Could it be because they want points to expire?

 

[RichardMEL]

By the way to answer the question.. No i would not complain. I'd take it on the chin and accept the challenge.

Some years back I made a stupid error when I flew a RtW in J on Star airlines - I'd earned well over 30k elite qualifying miles on UA, but was not granted Silver status(which is nothing special mind you).. because I'd only flown two sectors on UA out of four required. Real rookie error on my part absolutely. Once I realised I smh at myself and took it on the chin because it was my mistake and I should have known better. I didn't go jumping up and down about how unfair UA were or any of that. I just laughed at myself for being that silly to not fly the 4 (I could have!) and got on with it. No it's not the same as Mr 75k expired points, but it's similar in that it's very clear what was required and I didn't meet the criteria.. nobody else to blame but myself.

And ever since? I keep my segments noted and am currently top tier elite.

 

[Vic]

Sorry that's a tangent rant o fmine. Just seems so many (not all) these days expect so much and somehow it's not their fault they weren't aware or didn't catch the detail or whatever. Granted, some situations they really are unfair and hide gotchyas, but in general seems to this old man that if things don't go as some expect they jump up and down and demand they get what they think they deserve. Now get off my lawn!

I guess you missed the entitlement decade in Australia...

 

[33kft]

That's our society for you

That may be the case, but the large number of advocates for government oversight of loyalty programs in this forum, one of the most concentrated collective of those who understand how these programs work, is a little baffling imho. There's taking a fatalistic attitude (I mean it has taken how long, 50 years for the spotlight to shine on these programs?) and there's advocating for government to institute controls (which is likely the outcome of the ACCC's current review).

Either way, given this likely outcome, I suspect it will affect this community just as devals and consolidations have - less opportunities less often, but given enough effort, some payoff for the effort invested.

 

[RichardMEL]

I do agree with Vic that QF send out WAY too many emails that are irrelevant. I know you can opt out of certain categories but yeah you'd think their CRM would get a bit smarter to know if I've never flown to JNB or SCL(or anywhere on those continents) that I'm unlikely to be interested in all those sales or random emails saying how great it is to go there.. it adds to the "noise" for sure.

 

[RichardMEL]

By the way of course the lack of local competition in the market has a lot to do with it. Remember QF only bumped the life of vouchers to three years because of the change in NSW law, not because of the goodness of their hearts.... So thanks NSW for that one

Now if VA removed expiry on velocity points(which may or may not happen once VA regains full control of Velocity) t that may make QF take some action....

 

[Hvr]

Given the complainer is not a frequent flyer, but a point collector who isn't attuned with the rules, it is probably better to just send them a gift voucher with no expiry date. Then close their account.

Sometimes businesses need to get rid of customers who cost them money rather than make them money.

I know my value to a business and what to expect. If I don't use the program in accordance with the rules then I will wear the consequences.

IMHO QF has been reasonable here and the complainer needs to shut up and move on.

 

[p--and--t]

1998.

1998

The two biggest inventions that year were Google and cough.

Were you tangentially referring to either of those

 

[RichardMEL]

Given the complainer is not a frequent flyer, but a point collector who isn't attuned with the rules, it is probably better to just send them a gift voucher with no expiry date. Then close their account.

Sometimes businesses need to get rid of customers who cost them money rather than make them money.

I know my value to a business and what to expect. If I don't use the program in accordance with the rules then I will wear the consequences.

IMHO QF has been reasonable here and the complainer needs to shut up and move on.

I guess the problem with your idea is that then that person could complain they'd been booted out of the program with just a $200(or whatever) gift voucher and they still lost their points yadda yadda yadsa.

It raises an interesting customer service dilemma - if they make it easy to get the points back (ie you ask and they just give them back) then that just increases the expectation. If you don't give them back then you're coughs.... so the middle ground of the challenge is a reasonable one (plus, of course, it ensures revenue to QF from them either taking the challenge, or keeping the value of those expired points as a reduction in liability if they do not - it's quite smart from that point of view).