Will Melbourne get Rail link to Tullamarine

[BAM1748]

Cheapest option for a new public transport build would be to extend the tram down Melrose Drive, in places it could run on it's own right of way to get a bit of speed up and Melrose goes direct to the terminal.

Rail would come off in the large space where Airport Drive meets the Western Ring Road, then run along behind Tullamarine and go elevated over the car parks to the terminal.

 

[BAM1748]

That is simply not possible. All decisions are a result of Politics. (the art of he possible).

Random Statement: A rail link will mean 1000 fewer teaches, nurses and police. Now tell me how you keep the politics out of this!

What rail link to an airport in this country has made money?

There is no business case, which is the real problem. What private consortium will invest without government support?

The business case for building a new rail link is usually putting a station or two on route opens up new development, the airport line in Sydney was not built specifically to serve the airport but the airport assisted in justifying the line to open up and revitalise Green Square and Mascot, the proper name for this line is not "Airport Railway" but "New Southern Railway". In that regard it has been a worked perfectly.

Public transport is to provide a social service, not to make money. Only in Melbourne is there a private train operator for public transport and I wouldn't call it a raging win for the Victorian public.

Matt

 

[markis10]

Only in Melbourne is there a private train operator for public transport and I wouldn't call it a raging win for the Victorian public.

Matt

Brisbane's Airtrain is an exception to both your points, no stations were added for development purposes and its run by a private operator as well, which wet leases the rolling stock.

As for the in town congestion, why not put the line in from Footscray, run up to Calder then branch over to the airport?

 

[nlagalle]

Brisbane's Airtrain is an exception to both your points, no stations were added for development purposes and its run by a private operator as well, which wet leases the rolling stock.

As for the in town congestion, why not put the line in from Footscray, run up to Calder then branch over to the airport?

you still have to get from the city to Footscray then to the airport. so for many people that is changing trains 3 times.

 

[BAM1748]

Brisbane's Airtrain is an exception to both your points, no stations were added for development purposes and its run by a private operator as well, which wet leases the rolling stock.

As for the in town congestion, why not put the line in from Footscray, run up to Calder then branch over to the airport?

It is, but it's also a relative short distance.

 

[markis10]

It is, but it's also a relative short distance.

Not as short as a branch running from Calder to Tulla at 8.5km, and its not gone broke, unlike any BOOT project that seems to require a tunnel.

 

[dajop]

All interesting debate, but I'm still not convinced a rail service to MEL airport is the best use of infrastructure dollars, even with a couple of extra stations to encourage development. There a probably a handful or more alternative rail projects that may be more beneficial to the wider community than a rail link to the airport.

 

[rechoboam]

Cheapest option for a new public transport build would be to extend the tram down Melrose Drive, in places it could run on it's own right of way to get a bit of speed up and Melrose goes direct to the terminal.

Rail would come off in the large space where Airport Drive meets the Western Ring Road, then run along behind Tullamarine and go elevated over the car parks to the terminal.

Trams now!! Can anyone explain what exactly the problem is with the bus? That service could be extended to routes from footscray, caulfield, Heidelberg and can run on cleaner fuel and a dedicated 24/7 exclusive roadway and this could all be done overnight.

Edit: I forgot the service via Elwood etc on fapas. A quoted time of 70-80 minutes would have to be better than getting a tram into the city, changing to an airport bus (perhaps changing stations too) and going into the airport from there at least for most people.

 

[medhead]

Trams now!! Can anyone explain what exactly the problem is with the bus? That service could be extended to routes from footscray, caulfield, Heidelberg and can run on cleaner fuel and a dedicated 24/7 exclusive roadway and this could all be done overnight.

what? Besides that buses are rubbish?

Big assumption to claim buses run on cleaner fuel. Does that account of the efficiency of running trains as a mass transport option?

How much will a dedicated road cost to build, overnight?


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[BAM1748]

Trams now!! Can anyone explain what exactly the problem is with the bus? That service could be extended to routes from footscray, caulfield, Heidelberg and can run on cleaner fuel and a dedicated 24/7 exclusive roadway and this could all be done overnight.

Edit: I forgot the service via Elwood etc on fapas. A quoted time of 70-80 minutes would have to be better than getting a tram into the city, changing to an airport bus (perhaps changing stations too) and going into the airport from there at least for most people.

Last time I looked trams ran on rails, so yes that would be the cheapest rail option to the airport, it's not a great distance and can run along the easement of Melrose Drive. Skybus can start Skytram.

For those with time on their hands http://www.nationbuildingprogram.go...tration/pdf/Best_Practice_Cost_Estimation.pdf

Agree with medhead, rubbish.

 

[burmans]

Got me on the flashy examples part, I'll have to admit. But I still strongly doubt that a few luggage racks and express services would make a premium price service viable. Can't be sure with BNE, but isn't one of the main complaints about the SYD rail link that its fares are uncompetitive with taxi fares?

True for multiple passengers but in peak hour you will get to the CBD much faster and cheaper via the train if you are by yourself (e.g. on buisness). Last time I passed through Sydney airport I waited 30 mins before I even got into a taxi vs 20 mins in the train so I would hav ebeen where I want to go before I even got into the taxi! Agree it's more expensive than I like but particularly if I have limited baggage train would be the way I choose into the CBD.

 

[burmans]

Trams now!! Can anyone explain what exactly the problem is with the bus?

Trams don't have traffic jams when there are accidents, this happened to me just last week in Melbourne and as the taxi drove through the back streets of Airport West (the main highwaywas a parking lot) I did wonder why the Airport West tram stopped about 2 km short of the airport!

 

[markis10]

Trams don't have traffic jams when there are accidents, this happened to me just last week in Melbourne and as the taxi drove through the back streets of Airport West (the main highwaywas a parking lot) I did wonder why the Airport West tram stopped about 2 km short of the airport!

They do when the tram line is part of the street, which is a good portion of the airport west line!

 

[smit0847]

I must have used the Skybus 60 - 70 times over the past 8 years and although I think its overpriced, there is nothing wrong with the service. I have been at all times of the day and night and find its efficient, well organised and apart from the annoying ear-piercingly loud 'Skybus TV' ads, very comfortable. I always try and get the front seat so I'm first off and not stuck behind the once a year travellers.

I would love to see multiple skybus routes (i.e. one stop at parliament instead of southern cross) but there is no argument that there is no efficient way to get to the airport.

A train would cut, what, all of 5 minutes off the travelling time?!?

 

[serfty]

As mentioned, there's more than one bus service to/from MEL.

Three require metcards: http://www.australianfrequentflyer....tullamarine-transport-18524-2.html#post378047

With the advent of the 901 bus extension to MEL airport, the bus stop has been moved 500 metres to the South; from the convenient central inner ring location to a location well past T4.

It's location is definitely luggage unfriendly and is no longer protected from the elements.

I guess the owner of MEL airport are trying to avoid upsetting revenue stream with cheap and easy public transport.

Here's some reference Google Maps:

• Satellite Style
• Map Style

 

[rechoboam]

Trams don't have traffic jams when there are accidents, this happened to me just last week in Melbourne and as the taxi drove through the back streets of Airport West (the main highwaywas a parking lot) I did wonder why the Airport West tram stopped about 2 km short of the airport!

Firstly a dedicated road is not needed for buses, only a dedicated lane. All you need is paint. The more road space lost to buses the more attractive public transport becomes. Buses can run on a variety of fuels such as fuel cells so pollution shouldn't be more of a factor than in trains which in Melbourne run essentially on brown coal.

I have to reject the accidents business. Having lived near a tram depot in a former life I am well aware of derailments, shunting problems and traffic jams due to trams. Any fixed rail line is subject to total breakdown when rails are damaged , buckled or blocked. Buses can reroute. How many times are trains in Melbourne replaced by buses ? How many times are buses replaced with trams?! I don't really understand the comment about traffic jams as the whole route should be dedicated to buses.

 

[Harpoon]

Everyone keen on this subject, go and have a read of this blog by The Urbanist (Dr Alan Davies), a principal of Melbourne-based economic and planning consultant. He posted this end of 2011.

Would we use an airport train (as much as we say we would)? | The Urbanist

He looks at from the point of view - that even if a rail link was built, would we even use it? The answer being - probably not.

 

[medhead]

Firstly a dedicated road is not needed for buses, only a dedicated lane. All you need is paint. The more road space lost to buses the more attractive public transport becomes. Buses can run on a variety of fuels such as fuel cells so pollution shouldn't be more of a factor than in trains which in Melbourne run essentially on brown coal.

Of course you did write "a dedicated 24/7 exclusive roadway".

In any case a dedicated lane still requires policing, it is not going to remain dedicated without spending money to keep other motorists out. It would be a significant underutilisation of transport infrastructure to have 2 lanes available for, what, 3 or 4 buses an hour. How many 1000s of cars could be moved in an extra lane? So it seems a bit pie in the sky to suggest something like skybus could ever have a purely dedicated lane. Hence not really that relevant.

You also raised pollution as an issue without seeming to consider that one train can replace many buses, which makes it very difficult to agree that buses have the edge over a train as far as pollution is concerned. A train is a form of mass transit and hence it benefits from efficiencies of scale, unlike a bus.

Also as you seem to be advocating no change to the current arrangement, the most relevant factor is what fuel is used by skybus? I don't expect it is a fuel cell.




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[nlagalle]

Of course you did write "a dedicated 24/7 exclusive roadway".

In any case a dedicated lane still requires policing, it is not going to remain dedicated without spending money to keep other motorists out. It would be a significant underutilisation of transport infrastructure to have 2 lanes available for, what, 3 or 4 buses an hour. How many 1000s of cars could be moved in an extra lane? So it seems a bit pie in the sky to suggest something like skybus could ever have a purely dedicated lane. Hence not really that relevant.

You also raised pollution as an issue without seeming to consider that one train can replace many buses, which makes it very difficult to agree that buses have the edge over a train as far as pollution is concerned. A train is a form of mass transit and hence it benefits from efficiencies of scale, unlike a bus.

As half the route is covered by tollways which have cameras it probably wouldn't be that hard. As an example the Eastern Freeway as a time period in the morning where to use the right ane there must be 2 or more pax in the car.. Of all the times I have driven on it, people have stuck to the rules. The only time you want a dedicated lane in in the peak times 6-9.30 and 4.30-7pm. after that anyone can use it. Mind you there are other buses that can use the same lane too - infact i just remembered there is an Express Lane on the tulla freeway now. perhaps it needs to be restricted as i think taxis and VH cars can use it.

I live in Melbourne and I still think a train to the airport is a grand waste of money and unless it has a dedicated line from Southern Cross it'll get caught in the train jams that occur daily between SC and nth Melbourne

 

[serfty]

There used to be a Public Transport (Met) bus stop right in the guts of the pickup/drop off inner road ring:

OK, On Saturday I caught this bus to MEL from Essendon R/S.

The MEL bus stop is signposted but not very clearly. It is on the bus loop 1 road out from the terminals, about 30 metres south of the central (International) pedestrian crossing. There are actually 3 routes that pass through MEL airport like this.

Here's what it looks like from the crossing: (Click for enlargement)



and closeup:

However, with the advent of the Smarbus service, MEL management moved it ½ a Km South:

With the advent of the 901 bus extension to MEL airport, the bus stop has been moved 500 metres to the South; from the convenient central inner ring location to a location well past T4.

It's location is definitely luggage unfriendly and is no longer protected from the elements.

I guess the owner of MEL airport are trying to avoid upsetting revenue stream with cheap and easy public transport.

Here's some reference Google Maps:

• Map

It's now a 7 minute brisk walk from the T3 DJ lounge and 12 minutes from the T1 QP.