Why fly business? I don't see the value?

[TonyHancock]

I do find it interesting that this has become quite antagonistic.

There is no right or wrong. I choose to fly what little personal long haul* I do in Y, but I can see why folks would prefer to travel in J. Just as I would hope folks can understand why I have 9 PC's. (well perhaps not!!!)

The bad news for you leisure J travelers in long haul is that I am the fattish bloke, well stout, sat next to you who smells of BO, after 23 hours anyway, and snores for the whole flight, and I get to do it at someone else's expense too many times a year.

I can see the argument for the journey being a part of the experience, and I can see the argument for being "better off" when you land after flying Y. What I can't see is why this has caused so much antagonism.

I choose Y coz I can buy new computers!!!!!!!!

* Once in the last 5 years.

 

[BadgerBoi]

It's totally self assessed value dependent, as is everything in life. It is not related directly to income or means either. Most J class travelers however do not go without shoes.

I own a couple of pairs of shoes, not very expensive ones mind you.

I'm by no means a high earner, but by a combination of choices that I've made and chances that I've had, I'm debt-free/mortgate-free. I don't send any sprogs to St Lotadosh's School for Kids Who Can't Cope With State Education, nor do I own a car.

I get value in travelling J. I get a lot of enjoyment out of researching fares in various ways, and I won't always choose the cheapest, but I might choose an airline that I've never used before, or via a country that I've never visited before. I've never had to spend $5,000 each way above the economy fare, as Smackbum suggested someone might in an earlier post, but if it was a flight that interested me enough then I would look at it. Then research it endlessly until I got the price down as far as I could. I love doing the research.

I've never used 50% of my holiday budget on a flight, as Smackbum suggested also in an earlier post. Never anything like it. And I don't trade quality of accommodation or meals for the extra money that I spend on the fare. I'll stay in apartments rather than hotels, for example, where I get a bigger and more private space for less money.

I keep looking at this thread in the hope that someone can convince me that I'm not getting value for my J ticket. Nothing I've seen here has convinced me that I'd be happier in any way by sitting down the back of the bus.

/rant

 

[serfty]

... Now if I had a sick grandmother in Romania or something and HAD to fly to Europe twice a year, I would go economy because I couldn't afford to fly J all the time.

Then again, if you knew you were going to do that trip twice a year to Romania then it is quite a simple thing to booked your flights ex Romania.

e.g. Say you planned to visit mid May and mid November, then get to Europe next November, one-way. Then book a round trip, say, Europe to Oz in November, returning in May. Book another Europe to Oz May-November, rinse, wash repeat. This will generally be much cheaper than simple return trips from Oz.

 

[Fantic125]

Apologies for dragging it back on topic.

Do I fly Business Class? No.
Do I travell a lot on company paid airfares? Yes.
Do I fly lots of long-haul flights from AU to EU? Yes.
Do I have to pay for flights? No.
Do I think paying significant amounts for Business Class is worth it?
IMHO. No.

 

[BadgerBoi]

I do find it interesting that this has become quite antagonistic.

The bad news for you leisure J travelers in long haul is that I am the fattish bloke, well stout, sat next to you who smells of BO, after 23 hours anyway, and snores for the whole flight, and I get to do it at someone else's expense too many times a year.

Not bad news at all. I'll be sitting with my partner so the size of your tummy won't impact on me - anyway after the cheese, champagne and foie gras that I've been devouring over the last month, I bet that my girth would give yours a run for its money. My noise cancelling headset will drown out the worst snorers, and as for your BO I'll just turn the air-vent in your direction so that the aroma goes elsewhere. And I'll take off my shoes in retaliation.

I can absolutely understand why you have nine PCs, you get a lot of pleasure out of that, much the same that I get a lot of pleasure out of my J travel. And your passion for PCs puts this thread into perspective.

Dammmit, this is my 100th post on this site, some people will be thrilled to hear that means that I might stfu now (no guarantees). I've been lurking on this site since 2007 but only registered in January this year.

 

[simongr]

I .. I .. I quite understand - for you it's all about Me .. Me .. Me. But I prefer to take my family with me and do it as often as feasible. So to ME business class is a poor choice.

Actually I have a family too and I also have the majority of the rest of my family overseas.

I haven't bothered to quote your walk/chew gum comment as that is not appropriate either on the other poster's part but is marginally less offensive than comments about brain damage.

 

[notzac]

As I've never personally paid for long haul J, I wasn't sure if my comments were welcome. But then I thought .. sod it.

<rant>Who is anyone to judge someone else for their reasons for buying up to F, J or otherwise? I've really enjoyed reading all the reasons people have for buying what they buy; reading the personal attacks, not so much.</rant>

I'm not in a position to afford J (much as I'd love to!), but have found that paying for whY+ is a very acceptable middle ground that lets me get comfortable during a long haul flight and not need to visit a chiropractor after arriving at my destination. The additional miles I get for whY+ also means that I get to treat myself to J a little moar often, which is a nice bonus!

 

[Durin's Bane]

When I can fly business class without impacting our travel opportunities I will give it some serious thought - though probably not with Qantas - but until then I will maximise my travel value and leave it to others to get fleeced.

"Fleeced"?

Perhaps you need to show a little more respect to those who choose to spend their money in their own way.

 

[NM]

Well here is my perspective, to which some may ... and others may not.

Have I ever paid my own cash for business class travel? Yes, I have paid the difference between a company funded economy fare and s business class fare (a DCIR22 to be precise).

Do I travel business class for personal leisure trips? Yes, when using FF miles/points for redemptions.

Would I pay my own cash for business class travel for a leisure trip? No, I would save the cash to other aspects of the holiday.

Do I think I should travel business class for business travel - absolutely.

Does my employer pay for business class travel for business trips? Not in the last 4 years. They did pay for one premium economy trip when the R class fare was less than a B class fare. But other than that its always economy.

Will I upgrade an economy fare to business class? Yes for an overnight flight, otherwise no. I try hard to avoid overnight flights, but sometimes its to my own personal advantage to travel overnight and its those flights that I will attempt to upgrade using FF points. But if its a daytime flight, I will not waste my FF points for an upgrade.

 

[Smackbum]

"Fleeced"?

Perhaps you need to show a little more respect to those who choose to spend their money in their own way.

Yes - value is very subjective, and often does not follow a sliding scale. But I STILL can't see the justification of spending $5982 in Premium Economy, $9482 Business, or (Brian forbid!) $19458 First, when these are 2x, 3x, and 6x the Economy fare respectively. Yes - these are Qantas fares to the UK at Christmas time, and I'm sure I could do a whole lot better on almost any other carrier that flies to the UK. Might even get a J fare for under $6K (though not that I can see at first glance). Still twice the QF economy fare, so if I was paying for 4 that would be $24K rather than $12K. If my family demanded that they fly J long haul I would tell them that for a $12K saving they can either harden up or chose which two of them will be left behind.

So choose to pay the premium if you want, but don't obscure the argument with status runs to nowhere or third world bargains or super secret deals that you are too scared to tell anyone about. So what?!? I have paid extra points/$ on a couple of occasions when it was a bargain, but it hasn't deluded me into thinking I'm not worthy unless I fly in front of the riff-raff. I certainly DON'T want any of that stuff you're smoking.

 

[Masonic Phantom]

Yes - value is very subjective, and often does not follow a sliding scale. But I STILL can't see the justification of spending $5982 in Premium Economy, $9482 Business, or (Brian forbid!) $19458 First, when these are 2x, 3x, and 6x the Economy fare respectively. Yes - these are Qantas fares to the UK at Christmas time, and I'm sure I could do a whole lot better on almost any other carrier that flies to the UK. Might even get a J fare for under $6K (though not that I can see at first glance). Still twice the QF economy fare, so if I was paying for 4 that would be $24K rather than $12K. If my family demanded that they fly J long haul I would tell them that for a $12K saving they can either harden up or chose which two of them will be left behind.

So choose to pay the premium if you want, but don't obscure the argument with status runs to nowhere or third world bargains or super secret deals that you are too scared to tell anyone about. So what?!? I have paid extra points/$ on a couple of occasions when it was a bargain, but it hasn't deluded me into thinking I'm not worthy unless I fly in front of the riff-raff. I certainly DON'T want any of that stuff you're smoking.

Smackbum,
You appear to have a deep SEATED problem.....with Y & J class travel, also last word syndrome !!
perhaps you need to take a Panadol & do some constructive charity work......


M.P.

 

[burmans]

Really

There are also some routes flown by airlines where if they use a particular aircraft it may have a class of service seat that is not sold on that route or the seating overlaps. ie the route may not have J/F seats for sale but one of the aircrafts they use on the day may have J or F seating. It is possible to book your flight and then ring up and ask or select the seat during online booking that is in the F/J section. I learnt this one from a thread on flyertalk and have used it successfuly.

Any chance you can reference that link, would like to bookmark it!

 

[michaely]

On longhaul flights, particularly on business trips, the ability 'to work, rest and play' /eat/ sleep, to me makes Business (class) a worthwhile outlay.To arrive in Europe, early in the morning, and to feel sufficiently refreshed to be able to do a day's work is invaluable,so that by evening I am ready to sleep, in line with the locals.Comfort and health preservation is worthwhile expense to me, as is peace and quiet on a plane.
As a tall individual (1.86m) the space and legroom is worth the expense to me. I am a self-funded businessperson!!
At the end of the day, though, we each make choices as to how we spend our hard-earned $$$.
Michael

 

[extracta]

Any chance you can reference that link, would like to bookmark it!

I can't find the original link to the idea but I can show you an example. I also believe that there are people on this forum who know of overlaps on some QF flights.

If you go to the Thai website and click on domestic.

Make a domestic booking Chiang Mai - Bangkok out July 21.

When the select your flight details come up have a look at the flight details of the 0955 flight.

It is a 747 that has first class seating but no first class service on the flight from Chiang Mai - Bangkok.

If you book in Business and then get allocated one of the first four rows (I think) you get first class seats.

I have done this myself from coughet.

 

[Maca44]

On longhaul flights, particularly on business trips, the ability 'to work, rest and play' /eat/ sleep, to me makes Business (class) a worthwhile outlay.To arrive in Europe, early in the morning, and to feel sufficiently refreshed to be able to do a day's work is invaluable,so that by evening I am ready to sleep, in line with the locals.Comfort and health preservation is worthwhile expense to me, as is peace and quiet on a plane.
As a tall individual (1.86m) the space and legroom is worth the expense to me. I am a self-funded businessperson!!
At the end of the day, though, we each make choices as to how we spend our hard-earned $$$.
Michael

I agree that we each make choices as to how we spend our money. There are a few posters who seem to have lost track of the subject and are taking a cheap shot at others on a personal basis. You must realise it's 'horses for courses'. There would be very few people on this forum who could afford to pay J or F, as discussed herein, but don't put those down who can. People fly Y because their business won't pay for more or, because they can't afford to pay for J or F or, they simply want to spend as less as they can on flights on more on their destination. Horses for courses people.

 

[rechoboam]

I am a self-funded businessperson!!

Me too. So sometimes it might be excessive to pay for J. On the other hand if you have a meeting the day after arrival that might net your business recurring fees of 1k, 5k, I don't know, a hundred thousand dollars, a million a year, clearly the outlay is immaterial if it means your meeting goes well. In addition, the best asset any business can have is a highly-motivated employee who makes your business grow and if s/he feels like the trip to LA was a treat (rather than a red-eye nightmare), that's some investment.

 

[JohnK]

An interesting thread and as usual different opinions and tastes.

Would I pay for business class travel? Short haul business class is a waste of money and long haul business class airfares at face value are way too expensive.

Personally I prefer to travel overseas as often as possible so look for ways to maximise my trips on the cheapest (full-service) airfares available. At the moment that travel is in economy but hopefully will soon become travel in business class for not much more than economy travel.

 

[coyote25]

Not really in a position to pay for J flights and work certainly doesn't. However I believe award J and F are really worth it.

I'm putting together a RTW OWE J award ticket right now. Going to all the places I want for 280k points plus about $800 in fees/taxes I consider that a great use of points and definitely worth it.

Only problem is you need to book so far out but for J long haul seats and max distance i'm very happy.

Btw if I had the money than paid RTW or other like tickets would definitely be considered not sure I'd be ever have enough money to be comfortable booking and paying full fare single/return tickets but a little jealous of those who do.

Might have to seek suggestions on how to maximize benefits when I do my first 10+ J flight.

 

[rechoboam]

Plenty of people seem to be paying for boats, holiday houses, flashy cars, French champagne. Personally I think that's all a waste of money. As someone else said, (occasional) J travel is my hobby and in fact the only thing I ever spend/waste my money on.

 

[jamesatfish]

Me too. So sometimes it might be excessive to pay for J. On the other hand if you have a meeting the day after arrival that might net your business recurring fees of 1k, 5k, I don't know, a hundred thousand dollars, a million a year, clearly the outlay is immaterial if it means your meeting goes well.

My work-related international flights are paid J or F, although I book the trips using the various oneworld circle products rather than just direct return flights where possible to keep the costs down. The flights are self-funded (in that I own the company), and where clients pay for my travel in Y or Y+ I will use my own money to upgrade to J.

The value for me is the ability to work comfortably for part of the flight, get a good rest and hit the ground running the next day, which I just can't seem to do if seated in Y. If I'm travelling without my wife and daughter I also want to minimise my time away from home, so if flying in J means I can do enough work & have enough rest before an appointment to avoid the need for an additional night away from home then that's worth the money to me also.

The 'meeting after landing' issue is a consideration too - I've had to do CBR-SYD-LAX-IAD return with an 18 hour layover in DC for a series of meetings with an important client, and there's no way I could handle that type of trip without the decent rest afforded by a lie-flat seat on the way over and back. Again, the extra cost of the J cabin equates to less time away from home and I'll pay any fare difference for an extra 24 hours with my wife and daughter.