Why fly business? I don't see the value?

[tuapekastar]

Being old and grey myself, and a major frequent flyer with several airlines, I have to say that what you say is questionable (I would have said cough, but I'm not sure if that's allowed).

Who remembers the journey for God's sake? Get real and enjoy the destination (or just don't go).

I think the poster is being real. And no doubt enjoying the destination as well as the journey to it.

Why should they not go? Why do you assume they do not remember the journey?

I'm struggling to to see any logic in your post.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I think the poster is being real. And no doubt enjoying the destination as well as the journey to it.

Why should they not go? Why do you assume they do not remember the journey?

I'm struggling to to see any logic in your post.

agree. just as one might remember the orient express, or a transatlantic cruise... some flights can be memorable with some of the best food, alcohol and services that money can buy.

 

[gumpy]

Being old and grey myself, and a major frequent flyer with several airlines, I have to say that what you say is questionable (I would have said cough, but I'm not sure if that's allowed).

Who remembers the journey for God's sake? Get real and enjoy the destination (or just don't go).

I still remember my J flights (not self funded).

stryker I understand where you're coming from and I agree with you. I much rather enjoy the destination and not the mode of transport getting there... for me flying is like getting on a bus but for longer... and with bad air...

the thing is some people love flying for some reason... some appear to be addicted to FF programs and some are addicted to the special attention you get when you fly J. Everyone loves it but just how much you love it to part with your hard earned cash is a personal thing. Yes people are weird... Some people save money for the sake of saving money and never enjoy it... If I tell people I spent 3k on golf clubs they're like Je** Ch****, They see my car and say WTF what a waste of money... I'm sure there's something you do that is just as outrageous...

 

[Smackbum]

My problem with business-class travel is that it is usually such a big uplift from economy that I would expect a truly spectacular experience. Anything less would be a disappointment. But with discount economy you gets what you paid for in all cases, and have a much better chance of having your expectations exceeded.

I always travel Qantas on the cheapest ticket available ($ or points) but have lounge access, priority check-in and boarding, good seat selection (sometimes exit row), and the occasional op-up to premium economy or business class. Works for me.

If I was to travel in J the insidious disease of entitlement would no doubt take hold and in no time at all I would be a WP in the making and complaining about the domestic bubbly, or that the PJs made me look fat. No thanks!

 

[extracta]

Who remembers the journey for God's sake? Get real and enjoy the destination (or just don't go).

I not only remember the journey but when I have been able to get an appropriately priced J fair I look forward to the journey with anticipation.

When I book in Y I dread the flight and keep wondering if I will have a vacant seat next to me at least.

A J fair gives me pleasure from the time I book it until the end of the trip.

On a couple of occasions I have been lucky enough to be on a flight with a bar where you can sit or stand and talk to other passengers during the trip.

I do agree with others on this thread that I would not pay ridiculous prices for a J class fare, I do understand why people do though.

Nothing worse than finishing a great holiday/trip with a rubbishy Y class flight.

 

[Skyring]

Who remembers the journey for God's sake? Get real and enjoy the destination (or just don't go).

This is a bit like telling women that pregnancy and childbirth, along with all the inconvenience and discomfort, is nothing. The reward is the baby. Right.

I look on life as being the whole thing, not just the good parts. I love travel, and I love flying. But travel involves a lot of discomfort and inconvenience. Standing in queues, hassling with taxidrivers and porters, eating horrible food at inflated prices...

If I can possibly afford it, I'll aim for comfort and convenience.

But that's me. Others have different priorities, different visions, different hobbies. For some, the thought of spending thousands of dollars for a better meal and a comfy seat is just ridiculous.

 

[extracta]

I always travel Qantas on the cheapest ticket available ($ or points)

You are stuck in the Qantas Frequent Flyer trap.

Even people from overseas can purchase QF tickets for cheaper than we can here in Australia.

I view Frequent Flyer Points (especially QF) as a liability as they encourage you to book with them instead of looking around and finding the great value that is elsewhere.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I not only remember the journey but when I have been able to get an appropriately priced J fair I look forward to the journey with anticipation.

When I book in Y I dread the flight and keep wondering if I will have a vacant seat next to me at least.

I agree premium travel relieves a whole heap of worry.... how long will the check in queues be, is my hand luggage over?, is my suitcase over? how long will the immigrations queues be, will he plane be full, will I get a spare seat or have to share the arm rests, wondering if there is a better seat, or extra legroom seat that might free up (if you weren't able to preselect one), queuing to get on, having to race on to get room for your hand luggage, slow service, waiting for meal trays to be collected then having to queue for the bathrooms etc etc... all magically disappear if out of Y!

 

[cove]

As we get older the travel thingy becomes tougher on ones body especially the long haul.it can get down to traveling more comfortably or not at all.
After a major health event at 44 I changed to traveling more comfortably but I have spent a couple of hours a week making the cheap frequent flyer points to travel in nicer seats at what I think of as the wholesale price.
A 45,000 point Any Seat for PER-SYD costs sub $300 using Woolies or Citi cards to pay taxes so I don't see a problem traveling like that in J.
The idea of paying $1300 to $1900 for that flight is not the value I seek seeing we do that run and the one to MEL quite regularly.
I don't think I could do England last week and Los Angeles next week out of PER in economy without getting tired and/or sick.
I think traveling in the age group of 60 to 80 can be a bit tricky depending on your health. Remember that life is not a dress rehearsal.

 

[Maca44]

agree. just as one might remember the orient express, or a transatlantic cruise... some flights can be memorable with some of the best food, alcohol and services that money can buy.

I have been lucky enough to have flown F in the 747, and remember each of those trips. Last year I was lucky to have flown F SYD-LAX in the A380, and I definitely remember all aspects of that flight. (my first trip to the Flounge, degustation menu on board etc, great)

When I travel overseas now I do it for pleasure, and the trip commences when I leave home, not when I arrive at my destination. Most people would have a different perspective about costs/class etc of flights, but as mentioned in a previous post, I have worked hard for over 45 years and deserve it. Also, some people lose sight of the fact that some F/J seats can be found at quite reasonable prices so you don't have to be well off to enjoy those benefits.

 

[Masonic Phantom]

I have been lucky enough to have flown F in the 747, and remember each of those trips. Last year I was lucky to have flown F SYD-LAX in the A380, and I definitely remember all aspects of that flight. (my first trip to the Flounge, degustation menu on board etc, great)

When I travel overseas now I do it for pleasure, and the trip commences when I leave home, not when I arrive at my destination. Most people would have a different perspective about costs/class etc of flights, but as mentioned in a previous post, I have worked hard for over 45 years and deserve it. Also, some people lose sight of the fact that some F/J seats can be found at quite reasonable prices so you don't have to be well off to enjoy those benefits.

That,s it....Maca44,
In some circles it is called......enjoy the fruits of your labour...but then again some cannot...pity
Cheers M.P.

 

[JohnM]

Interesting thread (predictably ).

Clearly what it boils down to is personal preference to spend your own hard-earned as you like.

The beauty of threads like this on AFF is that it allows a diverse exchange of views and ideas that shows (thankfully :mrgreen that we are not all alike.

Personally, I like the journey (and status benefits) and prefer J & above but I won't pay point-to-point J. I do a DONEx at least every year. Domestically, I buy lowest whY to be able to UPG on PER sectors (being PER-based colours choice of class somewhat). East coast sectors are so short whY is trivial.

When I was working, travel was all whY but major hotels were acceptable accommodation. Personally, I detest big hotels (outrageously costly for what you get, sterile, phony, can't open a window, get a terrible night's sleep in the airconditioned room with usually far too much bedding cover).

Now as a SFSC who frequently travels solo, I do the reverse: travel J and stay at hostels. There's always lots of really interesting people to meet plus the cost is ultra low. Then I go eat & slurp good wine at the best restaurants in town .

I can tell you that I have some of the backpackers scratching their heads just like some of the posters on this thread scratch their heads at others' foibles - but, as I say, each to their own - and respect and learn from others' ideas and points of view .

 

[Smackbum]

You are stuck in the Qantas Frequent Flyer trap.

Even people from overseas can purchase QF tickets for cheaper than we can here in Australia.

I view Frequent Flyer Points (especially QF) as a liability as they encourage you to book with them instead of looking around and finding the great value that is elsewhere.

The Qantas "trap" got me and the family to the UK, Hong Kong and Vietnam for less than $5K last Christmas. Perhaps you can find me a deal in J on another airline for less?

As I said before, if you are on some obscene wage that allows you to fly everywhere in business class then good on you. My choice is to fly in economy and give the family the opportunity to see relatives and friends every couple of years. The one and only time I have "paid" for business class was one of those 5-stop round Australia awards (do they still exist?). Economy was 30K points and Business was 45K, so the extra value was worth it (even if some legs didn't have business seats).

So I don't question people's choice to fork out the big bucks for business class, but if that means they have to save for longer and travel less often then I can't relate to them.

 

[tuapekastar]

Interesting thread (predictably ).

Clearly what it boils down to is personal preference to spend your own hard-earned as you like.

The beauty of threads like this on AFF is that it allows a diverse exchange of views and ideas that shows (thankfully :mrgreen that we are not all alike.

Personally, I like the journey (and status benefits) and prefer J & above but I won't pay point-to-point J. I do a DONEx at least every year. Domestically, I buy lowest whY to be able to UPG on PER sectors (being PER-based colours choice of class somewhat). East coast sectors are so short whY is trivial.

When I was working, travel was all whY but major hotels were acceptable accommodation. Personally, I detest big hotels (outrageously costly for what you get, sterile, phony, can't open a window, get a terrible night's sleep in the airconditioned room with usually far too much bedding cover).

Now as a SFSC who frequently travels solo, I do the reverse: travel J and stay at hostels. There's always lots of really interesting people to meet plus the cost is ultra low. Then I go eat & slurp good wine at the best restaurants in town .

I can tell you that I have some of the backpackers scratching their heads just like some of the posters on this thread scratch their heads at others' foibles - but, as I say, each to their own - and respect and learn from others' ideas and points of view .

A nice summing up of the situation.

My take? (on self-funded leisure travel)

I'm firmly ensconced in middle age and have a lifetime history of mostly flying the cheapest Y available. This includes shorthaul and trans-con domestic, RTWs, and trips to most continents. And survived OK - and will most likely fly long-haul Y again.

But in the last 10 years (and especially since disovering AFF in 2005 )I have started taking some J award flights (trans-con, trans-Tasman, Japan), and some upgrades (trans-con). I've also taken a DONE4* last year, and loved it, and will confess to lapping up the better, far more comfortable hard and soft products.

I have never paid 'full price' for a premium cabin (on QF and similarly priced carriers), and figure it is unlikely I ever will. I could 'afford' it from time to time without ending up in the poorhouse, but would struggle bigtime to justify the expense differential from discount Y.

But for any future longhaul flights, and selected trans-con/trans-Tasman, I'll try and park myself in J/F wherever it's possible, using methods like points (esp. J/F ASAs), xONExs, even JQ business/star class, and maybe cheaper non-OW carriers. But I expect to end up in Y sometimes, and certainly won't be complaining about it.

Generally though on domestic and TT flights, I'm perfectly happy on the cheapest Y fare I can get ('earning' fare that is, i.e. QF - not to say I won't try other carriers e.g. DJ, especially with the changes that are currently happening to both FF programs).

Other people are welcome to please themselves - if you can afford it regularly through having a large disposable income, or through saving hard for it for years, or any other way in between, and want to do it, then go for it I say. And if you want to take the absolute cheapest fare on the cheapest carrier you can find every time, and put the money not spent on fares into something else, then go for it I say. We're all different (a lot of people with spouses/kids have to multiply by a factor of 3, 4 even 5 :shock: which of course can make a huge difference).

*Just out of interest I compared the cost of this DONE4 to booking all 15 flights as one-way consecutive J fares (F in US domestic) - I know its not really comparing apples with apples, but it worked out to ~11.5K vs ~35K - quite a difference!

 

[BadgerBoi]

Being old and grey myself, and a major frequent flyer with several airlines, I have to say that what you say is questionable (I would have said cough, but I'm not sure if that's allowed).

Who remembers the journey for God's sake? Get real and enjoy the destination (or just don't go).

Um...I can remember my journeys, particularly my first long-haul J journey. Funnily enough I can recall my enjoyment of the destinations as well, so that would mean that I "got real".

I guess some of us are capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time.

 

[Smackbum]

Um...I can remember my journeys, particularly my first long-haul J journey. Funnily enough I can recall my enjoyment of the destinations as well, so that would mean that I "got real".

I guess some of us are capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time.

But perhaps thinking and writing is a bridge too far?

If someone said to me "Here's a great deal - for $5K we can provide you with 4 restaurant quality main meals, complimentary drinks, unlimited snacks, lots of first release films to watch, and a comfy chair that turns into bed. All yours for 22 hours!! Then for another $5K we can do it all again and drop you back at home."

Then I would say "Find some other sucker!"

The journey is the thing when you are taking the Trans Siberian/Mongolian Railway, or the Indian Pacific, or even overlanding from London to Kathmandu. Looking at clouds through a window ceased giving me a buzz many, many years ago. Of course I want to travel as comfortably as possible, but I'm not going to blow over 50% of the budget on less than 5% of my holiday. Chewing gum must give you brain damage!

 

[straitman]

But perhaps thinking and writing is a bridge too far?

If someone said to me "Here's a great deal - for $5K we can provide you with 4 restaurant quality main meals, complimentary drinks, unlimited snacks, lots of first release films to watch, and a comfy chair that turns into bed. All yours for 22 hours!! Then for another $5K we can do it all again and drop you back at home."

Then I would say "Find some other sucker!"

The journey is the thing when you are taking the Trans Siberian/Mongolian Railway, or the Indian Pacific, or even overlanding from London to Kathmandu. Looking at clouds through a window ceased giving me a buzz many, many years ago. Of course I want to travel as comfortably as possible, but I'm not going to blow over 50% of the budget on less than 5% of my holiday. Chewing gum must give you brain damage!

That is what makes the forum interesting. We are all just a little different.

Being old and grey myself, and a major frequent flyer with several airlines, I have to say that what you say is questionable (I would have said cough, but I'm not sure if that's allowed).

Who remembers the journey for God's sake? Get real and enjoy the destination (or just don't go).

I got real and remember most of my journeys and destinations.

 

[Misha]

The journey is the thing when you are taking the Trans Siberian/Mongolian Railway, or the Indian Pacific, or even overlanding from London to Kathmandu. Looking at clouds through a window ceased giving me a buzz many, many years ago. Of course I want to travel as comfortably as possible, but I'm not going to blow over 50% of the budget on less than 5% of my holiday. Chewing gum must give you brain damage!

I think you are missing one of the main concepts of this (and most) forums: different strokes for different folks. I have done the Rail from Mongolia to Russia. Great. Yes, it was the journey (nothing interesting till Lake Baikal anyway ) but for others it is planes that gives them that feeling. I find trains boring - the sounds, the length of time, etc.

What some find amazingly exciting bores others, and vice versa

Your point about budgets is silly too - for some (alas, not for me) a first class ticket may only be 5% of their budget. If it is 90% even - then kudos to them for doing it the way they want.

I booked some flights yesterday for a trip. Mixture of all cabins: 1 x PE (long haul), 2 x Y (very short haul), 1 x Y (medium haul), 2 x J (short then long haul).

Some people earn more than others - good luck to them. Others save more than others - good luck to them. Others burn credit cards and ruin the economy coz they can't pay them off - good luck to us... er... i mean them.

Live and let live, and do things the way you want: don't judge those that sit in the pointy end, and they won't judge you. In fact I am pretty sure they'll not be thinking of you at all - what with all that lovely lovely wine up there!

 

[JohnM]

I agree with Misha. Each to their own - as I said in my earlier post.

I certainly like to see others' points of view and the way they prefer to do things but I must say I've been disappointed in some of the scathing tone in quite a few of the posts.

It's not in the true AFF spirit .

 

[BadgerBoi]

But perhaps thinking and writing is a bridge too far?

If someone said to me "Here's a great deal - for $5K we can provide you with 4 restaurant quality main meals, complimentary drinks, unlimited snacks, lots of first release films to watch, and a comfy chair that turns into bed. All yours for 22 hours!! Then for another $5K we can do it all again and drop you back at home."

Then I would say "Find some other sucker!"

So would I, and the experience you just described doesn't relate to my own experiences of flying J long haul.

To misquote somebody earlier in this thread: Smackbum please continue to fly whY so that there's more room up the front for those of us who enjoy it.

And thanks for your concern, but I don't have brain damage. I'd be more likely to suffer damage to my health from being crammed down the back of the bus later today as I return from a month in Paris than I would from multi-tasking using my feet and a stick of chewing gum.