which frequent flyer programme?

[serfty]

There are many many Australians for whom going to the airport to pick up an inbound relly is an exotic trip. :shock:

They perceive a return trip to Asia (KUL, BKK etc) in WHY as luxury, irrespective of the airline.

There's another group who travel a reasonable amount, mostly in WHY who either pay for lounge access or maintain a minimum status enabling complimentary lounge access. They like to travel, but as they can't really afford premium cabins will utilse available lounge access rights etc. to help smooth the way (along with the occasional upgrade).

I believe, both these groups would vastly outnumber the people who regularly travel internationally in paid premium cabins, for whom lounge access, additional baggage etc. is simply a perk of the fare paid.

In the case of the OP, AAdvantage would be the better program given the following:

... travelling back to the UK several times a year - mainly on RTW Oneworld tickets in F or J. ...

AA's better award redemptions are the main reason for this. The OP get the lounge access perks etc from the fare paid.

 

[simongr]

And don't forget that the same itinerary in business class would be 150K AA miles, which is only slightly more then the QF economy class award.

That would be a waste of points though.

 

[Dave Noble]

That would be a waste of points though.

Yah. paying 140,000 plus $400 in fines in economy is far far better value than 150k and no fines in business . What could people be thinking

Maybe the problem is that you arnt a "loyal australian" but just someone trying to get value from a FF programme ( http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/com...planning-itinerary-please-6905.html#post85151 )

Dave

 

[dajop]

All very interesting conversation, I think horses for courses sums it up.

Based on the information I've read in this and other threads the OP would be served well by the AA program.

As for the 10-20K per year fliers - sure the awards on AA might require less points and taxes, but the earn could be significantly lower depending on profile. For people in that category who are mainly doing short hops in Australia on QF (eg MEL-SYD, etc), the better burn rates are diminished by lower earn rates (0 on N class, 500 on other fares when assigning to AA vs 1000 on all fares assigning to QF). The other thing to QFF's advantage - particularly for infrequent (Australian based) flyers is the ability to earn and transfer credit cards points at 1:1 without diluting through a third party program (which most would not be aware of unless avid followers of this board).

 

[simongr]

I completely agree - the biggest problem for me with AA is the transfer of CC points. For example I wanted to lock in an award flight HKG-SYD but didnt have enough points in the AA program so dumped my Amex points into the QF program. The Amex points appeared the next day and I can now book the award. If things change then I can just cancel the QF award and get the points refunded - a 10K cost is pretty small in the scheme of things. Andif the points are not required for flights then I can just use them for wasteful upgrades to F.

For clarity that is what has riled me up - deeming that my choice of redemption is wasteful - I would not use points on a whY award as I would not enjoy that in any way shape of form. If the choice is between free whY and no flight then I will drive up to the Hunter for a few days.

I fly in excess of 100k miles a year - in fact this year will be 148K miles - any flight that is not in comfort is not an acceptable flight when you fly that much - but that is just my opinion.

 

[JohnK]

Boy, did I walk into that one. I thought 'horses for courses' was a disclaimer. Apologies to the OP for giving a totally misguided opinion.

Frankly if you are earning 10-20K in FF points a year then you are better off flying on the cheapest ticket that you can and using any money you save for other flights.

Why? If you do 10 return trips a year with QF SYD-MEL on the cheapest sale red-edeals you earn 20,000 QFF points. Obviously not enough to maintain status in any program but after 6 years you have enough FF points for a WHY return, plus fuel surcharges, for 2 people to an exotic location in SE Asia.

How many FF points would this person earn joining the AA program?

Just remember that WHY travellers always outnumber premium travellers by at least 5:1 and on most routes by at least 10:1. And if you break it down into award tickets the WHY awards would outnumber the premium awards by a greater margin.

Anyway as I have no idea what I am talking about, time for me to exit this debate and leave it to the experts.

 

[simongr]

Why? If you do 10 return trips a year with QF SYD-MEL on the cheapest sale red-edeals you earn 20,000 QFF points. Obviously not enough to maintain status in any program but after 6 years you have enough FF points for a WHY return, plus fuel surcharges, for 2 people to an exotic location in SE Asia.

How many FF points would this person earn joining the AA program?

Just remember that WHY travellers always outnumber premium travellers by at least 5:1 and on most routes by at least 10:1. And if you break it down into award tickets the WHY awards would outnumber the premium awards by a greater margin.

Anyway as I have no idea what I am talking about, time for me to exit this debate and leave it to the experts.

John - c'mon - this is about debate. We all leave the door open for other opinions - you just voice yours as fact rather than opinion in some cases.

You are right a cheap traveller will not earn under AA - but I would contest that if that same traveller took the cheapest flight he could SYD-MEL-SYD and always went for the cheapest option they could save maybe $50 per flight flying DJ or JQ - over six years that have saved $6000 - that would be enough for a LHR return - just about - that is why I am saying for that person an FF program might be irrelevant.

Ok - taking the median lets say that there are 7 times as many non-premium passengers as premium. Lets assume that a premium pax is not a nutjob like me and say flies 70K miles a year earning 180K miles per year. Over your same six years he has earned 1080K points and taken almost nine trips to SE asia with his lovely wife. What does that prove? Nothing. The only thing to "prove" is what is best for you (you meaning the collective you for all people when matching their individual desires to their individual resources). I don't care what people do with their points - if people ask for advice I will give and be as objective as I can. What I wont do is dismiss a program simply because of some bias against it. Let's be ruthless and take these guys for everything we can - switch programs, flip flop on airlines, find their hidden fares and margin calls on what is the best earning ratio. Most importantly lets not turn on each other because we disagree - sheesh this place would be boring if we all agreed - there would be just one big sticky with a million views and many closed threads referring people to the sticky...

 

[tuapekastar]

I think most points of view have been presented here, and it's good to see healthy debate (a little sarcasm notwithstanding), but I'll just add a couple of things.

As a relatively infrequent flyer (in this company, anyway), I have never redeemed anything other than J awards/upgrades. I consider it a far better use of QF points than redeeming in Y, but that's just my view, and anyone else is entitled to use points as best suits them.

As for status vs. points, I tend to concur with the view that a large number of FF scheme members who are infrequent flyers (and who do not visit fora like this) are relatively unaware of status and the benefits it brings (just talking to my work colleagues tends to support this POV).

I stole some candy about 20 months ago partially for the status, and partially in preparation for a LONE4 where I would be earning 100% status bonus miles for being AA Plat. The trip had to be canned but c'est la vie.

I posted here a couple of months ago re an xONEx trip in the planning for next year (still on at this stage, watch this space), and the question of which program to credit to came up (still undecided, but status vs. points is certainly a consideration - one I haven't yet tackled - I need to get right into the nuts and bolts and real figures ). and I appreciate all points of view and suggestions on that.

So each to their own... the OP asked for advice and got some facts and some opinion, and must make up his/her own mind based on that.

 

[Dave Noble]

You are right a cheap traveller will not earn under AA

Not true; for redeeming a business award the AA traveller is close or can be sooner

If this traveller wants to start from Melbourne for example; going to Bangkok from Melbourne, for example, a QF member needs 144,000 points for a J award plus around $270 iirc in fuel fines ( plus taxes of course ) whilst with AA it would need 70,000 points plus no fines plus taxes

Travelling on the cheapest economy fare of QF (O class) that will earn 500 per sector vs 1000 to QF

This will require 140 sectors crediting to AA vs 144 sectors crediting to QF

So this requires 2 less r/ts and saves around $270 in fines ( approx $35 + $100 each way iirc )

Dave

 

[sparoy]

Travelling on the cheapest economy fare of QF (O class) that will earn 500 per sector vs 1000 to QF

Dave

And in this SYD-MEL example the points earned would be the same if you've managed to steal the candy first .
As an AA PLT you will get 100% bonus on the 500 making it 1000, won't you?

 

[Dave Noble]

And in this SYD-MEL example the points earned would be the same if you've managed to steal the candy first .
As an AA PLT you will get 100% bonus on the 500 making it 1000, won't you?

The points required for the award are the same whether regular or candy stealer.

For earning points on the SYD-MEL run, a non status member will earn 500 miles each way, a Gold member earns 625 and a Platinum member will earn 1000 miles each way

Crediting to QF , the miles earned will be the same 1000 whether bronze,silver,gold or platinum

So if a platinum/executive platinum member it would take 35 round trips to get that J award compared to the 72 round trips that a QF Gold or Platinum member would need

Dave

 

[JohnK]

Not true; for redeeming a business award the AA traveller is close or can be sooner

If this traveller wants to start from Melbourne for example; going to Bangkok from Melbourne, for example, a QF member needs 144,000 points for a J award plus around $270 iirc in fuel fines ( plus taxes of course ) whilst with AA it would need 70,000 points plus no fines plus taxes

Travelling on the cheapest economy fare of QF (O class) that will earn 500 per sector vs 1000 to QF

This will require 140 sectors crediting to AA vs 144 sectors crediting to QF

So this requires 2 less r/ts and saves around $270 in fines ( approx $35 + $100 each way iirc )

This traveller, with no status, also has a wife/fiance/girlfriend so he cannot afford to wait another 7 years to go to his dream destination in business class.

How does the same calculation compare for a WHY award for 2 people to SE Asia under the QF scheme and the AA scheme?

For 2 people I think the WHY award requires 120,000 QFF points or 100,000 AA points. Which equates to 120 sectors crediting to QF versus 200 sectors crediting to AA. So with QF it requires 40 less returns (an extra 4 years of flying) but it will cost an extra $540 in fuel surcharges.

Now this is just my opinion and in no way fact. Please assess your own situation and determine what works best for you.

 

[Keith009]

From a prior post:

... time for me to exit this debate ...

Hmmmm...

 

[QF WP]

I think the number of subsets of FF's is probably much broader. I can think of any of the following combinations (but it will not be limited to only these, as I'm sure others can think of more):

1. Main Frequent Flyer program (eg. QFF, AAdv, etc)
2. Frequency of traveller (eg. infrequent, regular, heavy)
3. Places flown (eg. all domestic, all international, mostly domestic, mostly international)
4. Class flown (all Economy, all Premium Economy, all Business, all First and any combination of them you want to imagine)
5. Type of travel (personal, business, mostly personal, mostly business)
6. Use for FF points (award seats, upgrades to J, upgrades to F, hotel award nights, etc)
7. Credit card points accruing to FF program (none, 1:1 points, 1:1.5 or higher)

Just looking at these, there are too many combinations for me to compute (actually, it's 8,640 at present). The exact number isn't important...the fact that there are different groups is the important point.

Now there is also a subset of 6 - those individuals (us) that know how best to use their activity to maximise their points earn & burn. That's why we ask questions and discuss - to maximise. Just look at anybody here who has achieved higher status (from any program) from their time spent on AFF and/or FT.

Whilst what JohnK says may be correct (that his subset is the largest number of FF's), I'm not sure anybody can quantify it, unless somebody wants to poll all ~6M of them here in Australia (FF's in a program). Frankly, I have better things to do.

 

[oz_mark]

also has a wife/fiance/girlfriend so he cannot afford to wait

Maybe you should pick one of them, and eject the other two!

 

[JohnK]

Maybe you should pick one of them, and eject the other two!

It's not me, it is the traveller with no status that has the wife/fiance/girlfriend.

I would love to have the opportunity to have a wife or fiance or girlfriend. Sadly I will have to travel alone....

 

[straitman]

It's not me, it is the traveller with no status that has the wife/fiance/girlfriend.

I would love to have the opportunity to have a wife or fiance or girlfriend. Sadly I will have to travel alone....

JohnK,

I'm sure some people here could organise you a loner. (wife or fiance or girlfriend)