When to stop being loyal to an airline (QANTAS)

[JB expat]

I appreciate all the input. I can add some details about my flying habits and work flight choices (overseas business class) as well as the "why" on Monday as I have more free time while I commute than I do at home on the weekend!

 

[Pleb Status]

Well, it sort of does. "plebstatus" made some points around his position which relate ( I suspect) more to being serviced properly from PER. We're he to reside somewhere else, he may ( or may not) have made the same decisions.
It strikes me that those ( and this is anecdotal only) who speak of moving their loyalty, or becoming dissatisfied with the arrangement, are generally high frequency flyers, with (more) significant LT status credit balances. Without trying to read too much into that, someone like me, a less frequent flyer, with a low life time status accumulation, might find the reasons for the decision to abandon an airline less than reasonable. But as I say, some folk here literally fly more than some have hot dinners.

Interesting observations GPH.

With QFi abandoning PER, and PER-SIN being my second most travelled route (after PER-BNE), this forced me to use other airlines that did not credit to QFF. So QF sent me into the arms of SQ (and VA by extension) even if I did not particularly want to go at the time. However, once I made the move and got used to SQ/VA/EY etc and earned VA SG/WP status, I discovered some real advantages flying other airlines over QF/OW/EK.

It also allowed me to step back and determine how little my status and loyalty to QF was actually giving me versus the cost and inconvenience to me of keeping it. Even now QFi is back on PER-SIN, I travel on SQ as they offer four flights a day in 333/772 with good connections into Asia versus a single daily 73H with no full service connections. I still fly regularly elsewhere on QF, but nowhere near as much and only when they are cost competitive and they offer the best convenience.

If I lived in SYD, the 'tipping point' away from QF may not have occurred and I may still be firmly in the QF camp. A textbook case of not giving your customers a reason to try out your competitors as they may like them better than you.

On the other points, high frequency passengers tend to fly up the pointy end more often where earned status/loyalty becomes less of an issue. Being a QF P1 got me very little when travelling in QF J and nothing when travelling in QF F. This was confirmed when I purchased and travelled on an EY J ticket as a VA NB.

Lifetime status turns your qualification year into an 'all or nothing' proposition. Being QF LTG, this year I will have to decide to earn 1200 QF SC to retain WP or I might as well not fly QF at all. There is little middle ground here.

The funny thing is, the only real 'loyalty' QF ever shows to you (granting you lifetime status) is the same thing that then rewards your ongoing disloyalty to them from that point on....

 

[Awesom Andy]

The funny thing is, the only real 'loyalty' QF ever shows to you (granting you lifetime status), is the same thing that then rewards your ongoing disloyalty to them from that point on....

Although for some, this carrot is what's keeping people in the program in the first place. Without it, I can imagine an instant exodus of at least quite a few aspirational LT status chasers on this forum. I suppose, if they're going to leave anyway, might as well keep them for another flight or 2.

 

[PineappleSkip]

With QFi abandoning PER, and PER-SIN being my second most travelled route (after PER-BNE), this forced me to use other airlines that did not credit to QFF.

Totally agree, PlebStatus, about practicalities and economics. I pay my own airfares and cost is a prime driver. My own QF-VA experience was the opposite though. A couple of years ago, direct flights from AUH to KBL got the chop. Up till then I'd been favouring VA, but I went back to QF points via OW. Further down the track, QF's moving to DXB cemented this decision.Cheers skip

 

[moa999]

Certainly to/from Asia I have turned to AirAsia, Scoot and Jetstar when flying on my own dime

 

[trippin_the_rift]

I guess I'm wondering if anyone else has "quit" being loyal due to really, really, really poor service/experience - and have you found that it has or has not mattered. I've been Gold for 10 years, so this feels like a big decision (in a very first world problem-way).

I'm sure others have 'quit' because of poor service/experience. From my experience, those who have 'quit' on AFF have quit the QFF program, rather than QF the airline. Every airline has staff with bad days - it's not exclusive to Qantas so for this reasons I don't rate airlines based on people anymore but rather on the outcomes and hard product.

 

[under the radar]

personally I don't need my ego stroked that often. As some have said, QF will 'move on' from your decision to 'break up', and so will the next airline you choose to break up with after they don't provide what you require. I use (various) airlines that suit my requirements at that particular time. Of course things go wrong/not to plan. It's what happens when human interaction is involved.. we are the most flawed creatures on this planet

 

[JohnK]

Certainly to/from Asia I have turned to AirAsia, Scoot and Jetstar when flying on my own dime

You must travel light.

Everytime I have checked the airfares with these airlines component pricing kills the research as the airfare is almost the same as Qantas specials to Asia.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I think many here on AFF can relate to the OPs dilemma. From my perspective, I've realised that most businesses will from time to time fail in their promises/obligations and I'm at least trying the multiple status path.

Realistically, it would be lovely to hold top tier status with all three alliances.....and with some of the SMs going recently, that's possible. The only issue I see is that SMs are fairly short lived and absolutely useless unless one intends to fly with an airline of that particular alliance. I haven't bothered trying the SM game as I doubt I need either Star or Skyteam and I'm not currently aware of a OW SM going right now. I haven't yet looked at the quasi alliance of EY but may do so in due course.

Otherwise it's just keeping abreast of current points deals to make J/F affordable and forget status.

Are there any other options to make flying both comfortable and affordable?
1. One World
2. Star
3. Skyteams
4. EY Quasi
5. Points earn/buy

 

[JB expat]

Mm. I take it you don't have choice of carrier for those work trips which makes life harder. If you were going to fly Virgin for your trips you could also look into the possibilities of joining Etihad's FF program. I've read on a couple other threads that some think it better value than VA's program, but I haven't compared VA Gold with the EY equivalent.

I'd consider my flying experience over a long period. One can get browned off by a couple of successive bad experiences. IMHO what makes a good airline is how they recover from a stuff-up.

Are either EH or VA doing status matches for QF status these day? If so that would be worth looking into.

Cheers skip

Hi - I do have a choice for my work trips - in fact, because Qantas is almost always more than other carriers, I am often hard pressed to make the case for flying Qantas. However, in the past I have been able to justify based on flight times etc. As per my original post- I have gone out of my way to be loyal to Qantas which was driven by my desire to maintain at least Gold.

I expect to hear from Qantas by this Friday re: stuff-up (I will do a separate post in this thread) - if they don't come through, that is it for me - it was pretty bad and time consuming.

 

[JB expat]

Go to VA, more space for us on Qantas then. Enjoy...you'll be back though.

BSB - why do you think I'll be back - I've found that once people are motivated to leave something that they were reluctant to leave it is actually very hard to get them to "go back"

 

[JB expat]

So - here's what happened in a nutshell (well, a large one) - it had nothing to do with my not feeling treated well given my status - but was much more fundamental than that - I'd be furious at Qantas even if I was a non-status flyer...I think I am going to post this separately to find out what people think

We started with a round trip family booking MEL to HNL return (points booking) - booking was for myself, my husband, our 4 year old and our 3 year old...everyone booked under 1 booking/flying together. Something came up with my husband's work - he needed to return to MEL a week before the rest of our family. Called Qantas - they said "no problem", we can split your husband's booking off/cancel his return and book him a return that you will have to pay for at current ticket prices (approx AU$734 for the single return leg)/refund the points (less penalty) & taxes paid etc. I was very happy with that. Spent some time on the phone while the agent split his booking off/confirmed by cc number/went over ALL seat assignments to ensure family still seated together for all flights (important later). Agent was quite nice - seemed competent.

Well, no email came through to my registered email or my husband's email regarding new single leg booking, which I thought was odd - so I called. Here's what they found...my husband's return leg had been cancelled, no new booking had been made and my 4 year old was also split off from the original booking which they guessed was due to his middle name being the same as my husband's first name (given how pedantic airlines are about matching names to reservations, this is just sloppy). Agent #2 was appropriately apologetic, spent ages on the phone - he said 1 - they won't charge me the penalty points for the cancellation (which, I have not checked) and 2 - he took my cc number (rather than just repeating the last 4 digits of the card used for the original booking as Agent #1 did) and promised me all was set.

I logged on to my QF account and my husband's QF account the next day - could not find one of the now 4 related bookings (as per the above, there were now 4 bookings - one for myself & my 3 year old; 1 for my 4 year old who should have never been split off and 2 for my husband - outbound and return). Qantas had promised me they were all linked in their system and that we were all seated together. I was at wits end - this was 2 days before our trip. I reached out to a local community group on Facebook to find out if anyone had any contacts with Qantas (I knew there was one active member who used to work for Qantas in specifically for their Chairman's Club members). This lovely woman responded and offered to help free of charge. She took all my details etc., went over the booking (she could not believe how stuffed up it was) and called Qantas. She spent 1.5 hours on the phone with them (I kid you not) - she would not take anything from me although I'm taking her for coffee next week. She asked the agent on the phone to issue my husband's ticket on the spot (apparently, there's 2 steps - booking/paying & then having the ticket issued...new purchases are first in the queue for ticket issuance and any changes get pushed to the back of the queue and are moved up based on departure day...according to Lovely Woman...so she wanted them to push through my husband's new ticket). Agent said they couldn't push it through as it was after 5pm on a Friday (true or not, I don't know). Lovely Woman also asked them to confirm our family seats as she said she did not trust them to do anything right at this point. Anyway, Lovely Woman said we should be set and told me to double check in the lounge on departure day (note - I forgot to do this - will prove to be a big mistake although I really did not think it was necessary at this point).

Later that same night (2 nights prior to departure), I call Qantas to confirm that all the AFIS information was still tied to all bookings - went through EVERY booking and she confirmed all AFIS info there (this is why I did not think to check in the lounge - I mean, if she could see all the bookings/confirm AFIS, all should be set).

Arrive at airport, our family of 4 flies out no problem...seats together etc.

Husband departs HNL a week before the rest of us. I speak to him from HNL the day after he landed in Melbourne and find out - HE HAD TO PURCHASE A TICKET ON THE SPOT FOR AU$1400 AS QANTAS HAD NO BOOKING IN THEIR SYSTEM FOR HIM. He had the print out with the confirmation number which he showed them and they (at this point 3 of them in HNL airport) said that it had been cancelled as it had never been paid for - I KID YOU NOT. I then spent TWO $^&*() HOURS on the phone during my holiday (with steam coming out of my ears) with Qantas Customer Service. The very nice agent (all agents very nice - it's the competency I question), looks at all our bookings including my husband's and just cannot figure out why it was cancelled. She said there are tons of notes about the rebooking/confirmation etc. etc. She said that she sees no reason why we won't be refunded the difference but she cannot do it - it needs to go through their complaint system. Because I'm on holiday without a laptop, she offers to write up and submit the complaint for me - which she does (adds about 40 minutes to the call). I see on my phone that it was submitted and Qantas has 15 business days to reply...it's been 10 business days - no response. I'm giving them the 15 days before I dispute the charge with AmEx (my Qantas branded AmEx which costs almost $400/year in fees and I will drop if I abandon Qantas which is highly likely based on the input received in this thread - the only reason I've put up with the fee is that it comes with travel insurance that more than pays for itself by not having to buy it separately when we travel).

But it does not end there - just to add a final insult. I board the Qantas jet to head home from HNL to MEL via SYD and we walk to our seats - we are assigned 2 seats in the middle row of 5 seats and 1 seat ACROSS THE AISLE - remember, my children are 4 and 2!!!! and one of them is expected to sit with strangers across the aisle (or am I expected to sit with strangers and let me 2 depend on whoever else is in the row of 5) - this is despite confirming we are seated together at least 4-5 times in the months/weeks/days leading up to the trip. Of course the passengers involved agreed to change and we ended up with the entire middle row - but this just added to my outrage.

Reliving this has fired me up again - I'm pounding at the key board...so that's my tale.

 

[drron]

Indeed a major QF stuff up.What has been their response since you got home.
I would PM red roo with a link to post 32 as it really is a serious stuff up.

 

[JB expat]

Indeed a major QF stuff up.What has been their response since you got home.
I would PM red roo with a link to post 32 as it really is a serious stuff up.

Zero response...but they do have 15 business days to reply as per the online complaint process and I will give them 15 days before disputing with my credit card company (and possibly composing a much briefer/less emotional written letter to head office). I will see if I can figure out how to message Red Roo - I have seen RR's posts before.

 

[JB expat]

Zero response...but they do have 15 business days to reply as per the online complaint process and I will give them 15 days before disputing with my credit card company (and possibly composing a much briefer/less emotional written letter to head office). I will see if I can figure out how to message Red Roo - I have seen RR's posts before.

sent Red Roo a message - thanks for suggestion

 

[JohnK]

BSB - why do you think I'll be back - I've found that once people are motivated to leave something that they were reluctant to leave it is actually very hard to get them to "go back"

Sorry to hear of your experience. Not good.

Just one thing to note. The grass is not always greener on the other side.

 

[JB expat]

Sorry to hear of your experience. Not good.

Just one thing to note. The grass is not always greener on the other side.

I understand - I guess my thoughts are that I've gone out of my way to be loyal to Qantas (due to the value I placed on the perks of higher status) but now I am furious and am thinking it is time to stop my loyalty- and purchase tickets based on other factors which would often lead to a selection of alternative carriers (or where all things are fairly equal, intentionally not purchasing from Qantas). The treatment I experienced have tipped the scales (for me) - the only action in my control is to walk away (yes, I've complained and may write a letter - but that does not feel like enough in this case). Also, given that my work trips (overseas) are business, I will have access to lounges - I will just lose the perks associated with Gold when flying on a non-business ticket (I really don't care about perks when it comes to domestic travel).

 

[PLANT]

As an American(you state?)
Do you not realise ground staff at the airport are out sourced and bloody hopeless!.... Relating to husband issue at gate.
Everything else you described is very poor form from QANTAS

 

[NFF]

What's the point of being loyal in the first place ? That would be my question.

 

[Awesom Andy]

The grass is not always greener on the other side.

Although at this stage, I don't think the OP cares much about how green the grass is on the other side given the current patch here has been blow torched.