When to stop being loyal to an airline (QANTAS)

[JB expat]

Both my husband & I have been very loyal to Q...not driven by altruism but by the benefits conferred by the various status levels which have been used and enjoyed. But we have recently had a series of such bad experiences, we are discussing not only "stopping" the pursuit of status credits and points but boycotting them with our $$ by avoiding them when possible. I, more than my husband, am wavering. My reasoning is simple - I'm an American living Down Under and when I fly home on my own dollar, I make use of lounge access, priority boarding, excess luggage and upgrading with points (and I've had decent luck with this being Gold and choosing my flying days carefully). My Aussie husband says "stuff it" - let's fly virgin when we want to visit the US (which I do more frequently than he does) and take it from there.

When I fly for work, I can fly other airlines (business class if overseas) and when I fly for personal, I will be free to shop based on cost (although will lose the lounge access/luggage & boarding privileges), and most significantly, the hope of upgrading.

I guess I'm wondering if anyone else has "quit" being loyal due to really, really, really poor service/experience - and have you found that it has or has not mattered. I've been Gold for 10 years, so this feels like a big decision (in a very first world problem-way).

 

[anat0l]

If you're so set on considering moving to the degree that you're prepared to "boycott" the airline, then go. Obviously, you have both already made your decision. This is not the time to start discussing whether or not "it matters"; if you're set enough to hate QF, then you'll make the new situation work for you.

There are people who are Lifetime Golds with QF (equivalent of Platinum for 10 years) who have left, either for another oneworld programme / airline, or another airline / alliance altogether. Some of them have little or no problem with QF itself, just the loyalty programme, so that's reflected in a change of programme but not of the airlines they fly. Others spread the spend around - there are quite a few dual elites here (i.e .have Platinum and/or Gold with both Qantas and Velocity programmes). However, in your situation, if you are boycotting Qantas, that leaves realistically only one other option for you to pursue, which is Virgin. Of course, if domestic travel doesn't make a big part of your flying, then it's much less a consideration overall and you might consider different, non-Australian programmes.

 

[JB expat]

If you're so set on considering moving to the degree that you're prepared to "boycott" the airline, then go. Obviously, you have both already made your decision. This is not the time to start discussing whether or not "it matters"; if you're set enough to hate QF, then you'll make the new situation work for you.

My husband has made the decision for himself...I'm wondering whether I'm giving up "too much" even though I don't want to give them any more business - so my question is, have people done this (walked away) and regretted giving up some of the benefits. We don't always fly together, in fact, more often than not it is work-related travel so the other spouse is not on the trip. It matters most for the trips to the USA.

There are people who are Lifetime Golds with QF (equivalent of Platinum for 10 years) who have left, either for another oneworld programme / airline, or another airline / alliance altogether.

Yes, but if you have lifetime gold, you still have a decent status (in my book - it's all relative).

 

[mooingchicken]

If you do swap to Virgin, you will probably get back to gold quiet easy (especially with family status pooling) so would not be to long without lounge access and all those things. upgrades are locked in (and normally have to be done early) not the 'lotto' system qantas has, so pros and cons there.
Depending where else you travel for work then this also get lounge access and all those benefits with singapore, etihad and others. So really depends on what you are happy to do and how bad the experiences have been...

 

[simcat]

I 'left' Qantas in March this year simply because I was bored with the product / service after over 20 years pretty consistently using them domestically. So I wanted to try out Virgin for a change. There was no particular defining moment / bad service issue and I will fly Qantas again (in fact flying them to MEL on Sunday! - the triple points offer was too good not to take up). So will be interesting to see if I recognise any differences after being away 8 months.

For international, I think QFF Gold (as the OP has) provides a pretty good set of benefits so it really depends how quickly you could build up to the same level with Virgin I guess.

 

[anat0l]

My husband has made the decision for himself...I'm wondering whether I'm giving up "too much" even though I don't want to give them any more business - so my question is, have people done this (walked away) and regretted giving up some of the benefits. We don't always fly together, in fact, more often than not it is work-related travel so the other spouse is not on the trip. It matters most for the trips to the USA.

So you're worried about giving up "too much" on a carrier (and carrier's programme) which you do not want to have anything to do with.

If you can forgive Qantas enough to keep flying them, maybe then you are giving up a lot. It's basically like deciding whether to remain in a bad relationship - can you forgive someone enough to stick with them or whatever you think you are losing isn't worth staying in a toxic relationship.

It sounds like you are both fed up, so then there's no contest of "giving up too much" or not - you walk. If you were frequent enough a flyer to get Gold on Qantas, surely Gold on Velocity cannot be a seriously large stretch. Your airline planning might then become Velocity-centric, but that's all part of the choice you make.

What benefits do / did you value the most that you think you will be loathe to lose? Don't forget that many benefits are not unique amongst frequent flyer programmes, although there are certainly benefits in some progammes (including Velocity) which are unique. So if you give up status in one to accumulate in another, then some things may not be exactly the same but the benefits will be there almost as if you never missed them.

Another alternative if you are heavily invested on flights to the USA is United.

If you give up on Qantas but later find that the grass isn't greener on the other side - and yes, that has happened before - then at least you would have had a better experience for it; or, you move to a new programme / airline. There's no point trying to anticipate this now and not jump because you don't want to risk that situation of having to come back, because the way you seem to portray it is that if you'd sooner be found dead on board Qantas, then remaining in the programme would also seem like a ridiculous idea, particularly if accumulating status in the new programme would require little or no additional effort on your part of retaining QFF status.

Yes, but if you have lifetime gold, you still have a decent status (in my book - it's all relative).

Except for the oneworld benefits (i.e. on other oneworld carriers), an essentially useless status if one vows never to fly Qantas ever again.


Loyalty is overrated; at least from a consumer's point of view, these days it's not like barracking for your local football team no matter what - it's an exploitative relationship. What residual FF membership that believes loyalty is about staying strong with old fashioned loyal values are slowly dying out (literally). This is why opening an "argument" with "I've been a <colour> for <number> of decades" is mostly an outdated and fruitless idea.

 

[JB expat]

If you do swap to Virgin, you will probably get back to gold quiet easy (especially with family status pooling) so would not be to long without lounge access and all those things. upgrades are locked in (and normally have to be done early) not the 'lotto' system qantas has, so pros and cons there.
Depending where else you travel for work then this also get lounge access and all those benefits with singapore, etihad and others. So really depends on what you are happy to do and how bad the experiences have been...

Really good info - i have not yet investigated the Virgin program/partners. We book our personal trips well in advance so we can get the upgrade requests in early...work is mainly Singapore, HK, Tokyo and Shanghai.

Our latest Q experience was horrid - not the travel but the booking and the errors - so many errors despite multiple confirmations/phone calls etc. etc. My husband was forced to purchase an on the spot ticket for 2x what I paid 1.5 weeks prior because Q could not find his booking when he flew home from HNL by himself (we were still there on another booking). This is despite confirming his booking...reading my CC # to the agent 2 weeks prior...reconfirming his booking on the phone to confirm that his AFIS info had transferred to his new booking...goes on & on (this is the final straw - this booking was cursed)...oh - and despite confirming seating arrangements with Q multiple times they seated by 5 year old separately from us for the HNL to Syd leg after I had been reassured over & over that we were together.

 

[JB expat]

If you can forgive Qantas enough to keep flying them, maybe then you are giving up a lot. It's basically like deciding whether to remain in a bad relationship - can you forgive someone enough to stick with them or whatever you think you are losing isn't worth staying in a toxic relationship.

or a relationship where one side has all the power (yes, toxic)...

What benefits do / did you value the most that you think you will be loathe to lose? Don't forget that many benefits are not unique amongst frequent flyer programmes, although there are certainly benefits in some progammes (including Velocity) which are unique. So if you give up status in one to accumulate in another, then some things may not be exactly the same but the benefits will be there almost as if you never missed them.

I value the benefits only for overseas travel - don't care about Qantas club access for domestic trips...and the benefits that I value are:
- where I fall in the queue for upgrades with points
- lounge access
- excess luggage allowance
- and one world status when flying AA in the USA

If you were frequent enough a flyer to get Gold on Qantas, surely Gold on Velocity cannot be a seriously large stretch. Your airline planning might then become Velocity-centric, but that's all part of the choice you make..

good point - (fyi - United doesn't make my list)

If you give up on Qantas but later find that the grass isn't greener on the other side - and yes, that has happened before - then at least you would have had a better experience for it. There's no point trying to anticipate this now and not jump because you don't want to risk that situation of having to come back, because the way you seem to portray it is that if you'd sooner be found dead on board Qantas, then remaining in the programme would also seem like a ridiculous idea.

fair point...could always return and rebuild status...it's kind of like phone and cable companies in the US - you stay until one infuriates you enough to leave and eventually you find yourself back at your original provider because they are all horrible at customer service and infuriate you at some point

 

[anat0l]

I value the benefits only for overseas travel - don't care about Qantas club access for domestic trips...and the benefits that I value are:
- where I fall in the queue for upgrades with points
- lounge access
- excess luggage allowance
- and one world status when flying AA in the USA

Again, you wouldn't seem to "lose" much by walking, as a new status on another programme can offer all of those, although with different offerings. For example, for Velocity can offer all of those with Gold status. You just have to adjust the selection of carriers a bit (e.g. you won't be flying AA in the USA).

A similar call can be made for other programmes and airlines, if Velocity aren't your cup of tea.

 

[Warks]

I changed somewhere in the last couple of years due mainly to a move to self-funded work travel and QF routes not quite fitting my needs. It was a bit of a strain to move to VA and at one stage I was QF WP and VA SG, then SG for both then finally VA SG and back to LTS for QF - never quite made LTG. Have flown to the US twice in the past year on VA and can't fault them. Mind you I couldn't fault QF on the same route but the price difference was getting to great to justify.

Life will go on. QF won't miss you. VA or others probably won't appreciate you.

 

[JB expat]

Life will go on. QF won't miss you. VA or others probably won't appreciate you.

That's just it, isn't it? They simply don't care...I guess I deluded myself thinking they do, but at the end of the day, they don't.

 

[JohnK]

When someone offers better product, service and benefits.

My preference is to travel economy. I cannot see any other carrier offering something better than what I have right now. That may change when the 747's are pulled from service. The 787's are unknown to me and if anything like the A330 then I have little excitement about them.

 

[Awesom Andy]

work is mainly Singapore, HK, Tokyo and Shanghai.

If you go to Virgin, the status is recognised on Singapore Airlines, but it's quite a lot of work to be constantly transiting in SIN to go to HKG, TYO, and SHA.

I'm not sure what your bad QF experiences were, but even with the program from QF or another OW airline, you can take BA to SIN (from SYD only), CX to HKG and transit there for SHA, and JL to TYO. And AA now has SYD-LAX so that's almost all of your international travel requirements without ever stepping foot on a Qantas plane again. Of course, some of those airlines aren't exactly known to provide stellar services either, but it's an option. Programs may also have requirements based on minimum travel on their own planes but that's a whole weekend worth of reading.

 

[PineappleSkip]

Mm. I take it you don't have choice of carrier for those work trips which makes life harder. If you were going to fly Virgin for your trips you could also look into the possibilities of joining Etihad's FF program. I've read on a couple other threads that some think it better value than VA's program, but I haven't compared VA Gold with the EY equivalent.

I'd consider my flying experience over a long period. One can get browned off by a couple of successive bad experiences. IMHO what makes a good airline is how they recover from a stuff-up.

Are either EH or VA doing status matches for QF status these day? If so that would be worth looking into.

Cheers skip

 

[Deleted member]

I'm wondering exactly what QF have done to make you consider this step.

 

[drron]

If you value lounge access overseas and especially OW benefits on AA then probably best to stay with QFF.
To keep gold you can take the QF codeshare on AA as they are about to fly into SYD again.Only need 4 QF segments.
Check out other airlines.We used to fly JAL via NRT to the US in J as it was nearly half the price of QF.And we love a stopover in Japan-obviously not good for business trips but if vacation time it's fine.
If you went to Aadvantage then you lose access to ACs in the US.
I switched to AA nearly 10 years ago but I have lifetime QP so didn't lose access to ACs.

 

[Pleb Status]

About six months after becoming QF P1, it became very clear that I needed to move a substantial amount of my travel budget away from QF.

No airline (or any other business for that matter) really values your loyalty, so there is no need to be loyal to them unless it directly benefits you every time you use their services.

Now being QF WP and VA WP, I select who I fly with almost solely based on cost and have saved thousands of dollars in the process. Gone are the days where I would pay substantially more/go out of my way to fly QF to maintain my QF status. Although QF is still better in Y domestically (VA is better in 330 J), the difference is not worth paying for (by more than a few %).

The only thing I really miss about being QF P1 is being able to select row 4/23 at the time of booking. VA allows vanilla WP to select row 3/10 at time of booking and I have to say that this fact alone has won VA some business where it has been a coin flip on cost with QF.

Other benefits of my increasing disloyalty to QF have been being able to avoid flying EK this year and I can fly to Asia again on a full service airline with lounge access etc (on SQ) after QFi abandoned PER.

It is early days at the moment, but I am very happy with my decision break almost 14 years of exclusive loyalty to QF/OW and to 'spread the love'. It has not been without some hiccups however (VA website needs a lot of improvement, seat selection on SQ, the KF Gold lounge in SIN, AUH is a zoo compared to DXB, VA not being in *A so partner benefits can be difficult to access, VA J upgrades from saver fares are almost the same cost as a reward ticket, 77W J seat etc).

 

[bsb]

Go to VA, more space for us on Qantas then. Enjoy...you'll be back though.

 

[Awesom Andy]

I'm wondering exactly what QF have done to make you consider this step.

I was wondering as well, but it doesn't really matter. If one has decided not to fly QF (or any other airline), then so be it. We don't need to divulge too much into what is essentially a personal preference.

 

[Deleted member]

I was wondering as well, but it doesn't really matter. If one has decided not to fly QF (or any other airline), then so be it. We don't need to divulge too much into what is essentially a personal preference.

Well, it sort of does. "plebstatus" made some points around his position which relate ( I suspect) more to being serviced properly from PER. We're he to reside somewhere else, he may ( or may not) have made the same decisions.
It strikes me that those ( and this is anecdotal only) who speak of moving their loyalty, or becoming dissatisfied with the arrangement, are generally high frequency flyers, with (more) significant LT status credit balances. Without trying to read too much into that, someone like me, a less frequent flyer, with a low life time status accumulation, might find the reasons for the decision to abandon an airline less than reasonable. But as I say, some folk here literally fly more than some have hot dinners.