Weren't the 787's to replace 744's?

[Himeno]

Are we certain that any seating refurbishment will be in MNL? How do we know QF won't fly these frames elsewhere for that sort of attention?

A380 heavy maintenance is done by Lufthansa Technik in MNL (or FRA). Everything is stripped out of the cabins for such maintenance, so it is reasonable to do a heavy config change with new seat types during the maintenance process.

Were the minor config changes a few years back done in MNL? The change wasn't that major, same seat types, more Y, removing a J mini cabin and moving W forward. I seem to recall the entire fleet was done quite quickly.

 

[ajw373]

So much for the 787 introducing revolutionary new routes to new parts of the world. Not a single new destination.

Was that ever the plan?

When first ordered they were meant to be for domestic. In fact 789s were for JQ and the JQ 788's for QFd.

When it was announced the 789's were coming to Qantas it was as a 747 replacement. Which indirectly the announced routes achieve.

That's said think PER-LHR is reasonably revolutionary.

 

[oz_mark]

Was that ever the plan?

When first ordered they were meant to be for domestic. In fact 789s were for JQ and the JQ 788's for QFd.

When it was announced the 789's were coming to Qantas it was as a 747 replacement. Which indirectly the announced routes achieve.

That's said think PER-LHR is reasonably revolutionary.

I think it has been a bit of both at different times, but not surprises that the early ones will basically be replacing other aircraft (some of the 747s are getting on a bit)

Down the track I think we'll see more new routes....

 

[Melburnian1]

...the early ones will basically be replacing other aircraft (some of the 747s are getting on a bit)

Down the track I think we'll see more new routes....

Every time a B789 replaces a B744 it means a reduction in seating capacity on a particular flight. How does QF intend to mitigate this?

 

[levelnine]

Every time a B789 replaces a B744 it means a reduction in seating capacity on a particular flight. How does QF intend to mitigate this?

Increase prices and hope that competitors do not catch on. Wishful thinking of course, but perhaps it is no surprise that QF is focusing on routes where there is not yet any direct competition (non-stop AUS-LHR & AUS-DFW). Whether people will be willing to pay the increased QF premium to save an hour or two remains to be seen. I would predict no.

Edit: It does raise an interesting question. Once the 787 replacement of the 744 is complete, will QF have an overall reduction in its network capacity? In other words, does the introduction of the 787 herald a new low for QF in terms of the number of international seats?

 

[moa999]

Every time a B789 replaces a B744 it means a reduction in seating capacity on a particular flight. How does QF intend to mitigate this?

There are 8 789s replacing 5 744s. Roughly the same number of seats.
Just spread slightly differently around the network. I'd also expect more EK codeshares out of MEL

 

[oz_mark]

Every time a B789 replaces a B744 it means a reduction in seating capacity on a particular flight. How does QF intend to mitigate this?

A couple of slides snippets from the investor presentation help out/




S

So there are two things happening. One is that there are more 787s coming in, than 747s going out. The other is thet are moving capacity around the network

They've sort of done this before. When the 767s were replaced it was a mix of (bigger) A330s and (smaller) 737s that replaced them. Overall capacity stayed at a similar number, but particular routes saw changes.

 

[Himeno]

Edit: It does raise an interesting question. Once the 787 replacement of the 744 is complete, will QF have an overall reduction in its network capacity? In other words, does the introduction of the 787 herald a new low for QF in terms of the number of international seats?

In overall fleet terms, they are removing 306J/172W/1320Y (-5 747-400) and adding 336J/224W/1328Y (+8 787-9) for a total gain across the fleet of 90 seats.

 

[levelnine]

In overall fleet terms, they are removing 306J/172W/1320Y (-5 747-400) and adding 336J/224W/1328Y (+8 787-9) for a total gain across the fleet of 90 seats.

Thanks for crunching the numbers. Interesting that it is almost entirely a shift to premium seats. They appear to think they don't have the ability to grow Y.

 

[serfty]

... They appear to think they don't have the ability to grow Y.

Certainly! They are shrinking it (seat size/pich) instead.

 

[michaele]

Edit: It does raise an interesting question. Once the 787 replacement of the 744 is complete, will QF have an overall reduction in its network capacity? In other words, does the introduction of the 787 herald a new low for QF in terms of the number of international seats?

Another interesting point in the investor presentation, in the overall strategy (pg 8) I found this potentially interesting:

"Building a Resilient and Sustainable Qantas International, Growing Efficiently with Partnerships"

Read into that what you will..

 

[eastwest101]

Another interesting point in the investor presentation, in the overall strategy (pg 8) I found this potentially interesting:

"Building a Resilient and Sustainable Qantas International, Growing Efficiently with Partnerships"

Read into that what you will..

Bingo! Resilient - coming to a top ten silly corporate buzz words list near you shortly, along with my favorite - sustainable (also commonly known as: "We've lowered the bar so we are able to achieve this easier target because we can't be bothered to improve or grow".

I read it as - "Running away from competition to keep Qantas International going while crossing our fingers that fuel prices don't go up..."

The other thing I noticed was that they haven't honored the scale of the aircraft types in the corporate slide presentation? I wonder why that is?

 

[ajw373]

So innovative now going out of favour?

And seems someone is not happy. Cannot disagree with it from a passenger view point.

Australians can't rely on national carrier as Qantas' Dreamliner proves a nightmare

 

[levelnine]

So innovative now going out of favour?

And seems someone is not happy. Cannot disagree with it from a passenger view point.

Australians can't rely on national carrier as Qantas' Dreamliner proves a nightmare

Some of the article is hyperbole (eg the business continuity risks apply to all carriers, not just foreign ones).

However, it's hard to argue with the numbers. A huge cut in capacity on QF metal to Europe. As the article says,

Victorians flying economy class will have almost 75,000 fewer seats each year, and that's before anyone gets on the plane in Perth.

 

[straitman]

Wow.

What a mob of cynics and quoting a very one sided article that doesn't even explain its own headline properly.

Running a business is all about return for investment and that's what Qantas is about with these changes. They haven't just plucked the numbers out of a hat and had a dream that they will work. Sure some areas lose out on Qantas seats but others gain additional services.

Has anyone looked at what is planned beyond these 8 787s?

"The 45 options and purchase rights are phenomenal for us, and this aircraft we believe is a game changer (so) we absolutely would like more of them" Qantas CEO Alan Joyce told Australian Business Traveller following the airline's reveal of a record $1.53 billion in pretax profit.

"We have to demonstrate that we can make money out of the eight we have – but once we’ve done that, we’ll be comfortable in ordering more."

"I'd like to order all of them if I can make a good return out of them," Joyce later expanded.

 

[levelnine]

Has anyone looked at what is planned beyond these 8 787s?

If the past rate of QF purchases is any indicator, the first 787s will be due for retirement by the time the last of those 45 aircraft are delivered.

 

[Flying Fox]

In overall fleet terms, they are removing 306J/172W/1320Y (-5 747-400) and adding 336J/224W/1328Y (+8 787-9) for a total gain across the fleet of 90 seats.

They are also removing 20 engines (-5 747-400) and adding 16 engines (+8 787-9) for a total reduction across the fleet of 4 engines.

This doesn't even factor the greater fuel efficiency of the 787 engines.