"... we'll shortly announce a major investment to improve our Frequent Flyer program"

[RichardMEL]

Agree that Classic+ is an 'enhancement', but if that's not the only change QFF is making then they might need the lead up time...

I agree, but it doesn't appear that there are any other changes being moited (excluding the potential "devil in the detail").. eg I think all the LTP threshold wishes will be dashed.

We await to see...

 

[Doctore1003]

Good bit of additional info.

You really have to wonder how many people are going to look at a 800K ticket and think it's great value, especially when they still have to pay classic award fees and taxes and they won't earn any points on the fare like they would with a revenue ticket.

Do we know that taxes and fees will be charged separately?

 

[CaptJCool]

So the 2 messages I got from reading the “full” article

QF says it’s dynamic pricing

QF RECENT sale to Europe saw the offer at $8,499
That’s 566,000 points for a return J flight (vs the 289,000 CR plus taxes and charges of say $1232 each way adds 160,000 = a much higher “notional” points cost of 449,000 points

“Pay you Peasants”

Who doesn’t love a good auction ?
And the “stamp duty” to go with it (taxes and charges separately applied)

Now if the points are ALL YOU PAY (ie there’s no added taxes and charges) then perhaps it’s not ideal but on the special sales fares that would be a case of near enough is good enough (on the example above around 100,000 points more)

 

[elanshin]

At 1.5c per point, its solidly in the "Ok" category. Not great to chase, but still savings value to be had considering most earn at ~1c (less for bonuses).

The real question now then becomes how competitive is QF's pricing going to be. If QF1 costs 8k but SQ costs 6k to LHR then that 1.5c is not going to be 1.5c.

 

[Doctore1003]

At 1.5c per point, its solidly in the "Ok" category. Not great to chase, but still savings value to be had considering most earn at ~1c (less for bonuses).

The real question now then becomes how competitive is QF's pricing going to be. If QF1 costs 8k but SQ costs 6k to LHR then that 1.5c is not going to be 1.5c.

The SC earn rate for Points Club members will also be a key factor. I’m hoping it will be either full SC or at least substantially higher than for classic reward seats

 

[CaptJCool]

The SC earn rate for Points Club members will also be a key factor. I’m hoping it will be either full SC or at least substantially higher than for classic reward seats

That is a interesting question

Given no SC earn for the general masses, I suppose the earn would be equivalent on the new category = 0.
That had always been my quibble about you had to “spend” to earn SCs and then when came time to burn you got no earn. The all or nothing approach (Some of this addressed by Points club “70% of normal level” but perhaps this might be opened up to everyone ?

It’s easier enough for QFF to set both the earn and burn rates in their favour. As they say at the casino, the bank always wins

Is there any other programs where there’s 3 or more lots of SC earns based on each category of burning points ?

 

[elanshin]

That is a interesting question

Given no SC earn for the general masses, I suppose the earn would be equivalent on the new category = 0.
That had always been my quibble about you had to “spend” to earn SCs and then when came time to burn you got no earn. The all or nothing approach (Some of this addressed by Points club “70% of normal level” but perhaps this might be opened up to everyone ?

It’s easier enough for QFF to set both the earn and burn rates in their favour. As they say at the casino, the bank always wins

Is there any other programs where there’s 3 or more lots of SC earns based on each category of burning points ?

No, most are the former. Earn or burn not both. Also easier to distinguish when it's "miles" not "Status Credit".

 

[MooTime]

Imo QF really testing the waters with this one, leaking tid bits, surely in house or external thought sessions on the ins and outs. I really think they should ask some of the very frequent flyers, P1's, not the CL free loaders.

If it's a negative enhancement and bad PR for such a big change to what so many of the millions of QFF members chase in points flights to their holiday destinations, that would not be good. Not at all sir.

Lot riding on the new chief and the rewards department this one.

I'd hope there's more to it than just another tier of redemptions, dynamic or not.

 

[I love to travel]

I just fail to see how the average mum and dad flyer out there has enough points for classic plus to work for them. You have to churn a lot of cards to get 1m points (this is roughly 2 J seats to Europe if there is a sale using AFR example). Unless there is a nice surprise this could damage their brand for a long time if the media use simple examples like mine

 

[Doctore1003]

Most people only want to travel long haul every few years.

Earning 1m points in that time is attainable for a couple, without massive card churn.

Qantas want to sell a lot more points to partners in the coming years. That means more opportunities for consumers to earn points.

Honestly, I think a lot of people will be pleased with this development.

 

[dajop]

Earning 1m points in that time is attainable for a couple, without massive card churn.

At the upper echelons. TBH, people with the capability of earning 1m FF points within a "few" years, without churn, are probably in the category that just can pay outright for the fares they want ...

Let's call it for what it is. These changes are not designed for "average mum and dad" types (whatever that is) but to prevent leakage of high earners to other programs and lower surcharged debit cards or bank transfers.

Although many could stand to benefit somewhat from 1c/point domestic redemptions.

 

[downgraded]

Imo QF really testing the waters with this one, leaking tid bits, surely in house or external thought sessions on the ins and outs. I really think they should ask some of the very frequent flyers, P1's, not the CL free loaders.

If it's a negative enhancement and bad PR for such a big change to what so many of the millions of QFF members chase in points flights to their holiday destinations, that would not be good. Not at all sir.

Lot riding on the new chief and the rewards department this one.

I'd hope there's more to it than just another tier of redemptions, dynamic or not.

P1s are probably the last people they should be asking if they're looking to understand mass market sentiment.

 

[MooTime]

Most people only want to travel long haul every few years.

Earning 1m points in that time is attainable for a couple, without massive card churn.

Qantas want to sell a lot more points to partners in the coming years. That means more opportunities for consumers to earn points.

Honestly, I think a lot of people will be pleased with this development.

Sell more points...

But there are already so many billion QFF points out there due to recent few years build up.

If the answer is simply beef up the required points for a trip, nope sorry that won't cut it.

I would say you can't get to a million points every 2-3 years without reasonable level of credit card churn.

P1s are probably the last people they should be asking if they're looking to understand mass market sentiment.

Ok, but asking the plebs what they want the response will just be increase the availability of classic reward seats when I want to fly in peak times, that's all your get. And that simply isn't /can't be done, the economics of it.

Heavy flyers, high experience dealing with all things flying and rewards imo would offer more solutions and options.
I'm a lowly silver btw so no self interest.

 

[dajop]

The real question now then becomes how competitive is QF's pricing going to be. If QF1 costs 8k but SQ costs 6k to LHR then that 1.5c is not going to be 1.5c.

This is a good point, and definitely the way I view things, substituting carriers for the other. Not sure if all that many see it that way though.

 

[Doctore1003]

The reason I think it will become easier to amass 1 million points is that Qantas Loyalty is aiming to *quadruple* profits by the end of the decade.

That means selling *a lot* more points to partners (irrespective of any increase in price).

 

[I love to travel]

Sell more points...

But there are already so many billion QFF points out there due to recent few years build up.

If the answer is simply beef up the required points for a trip, nope sorry that won't cut it.

I would say you can't get to a million points every 2-3 years without reasonable level of credit card churn.

Ok, but asking the plebs what they want the response will just be increase the availability of classic reward seats when I want to fly in peak times, that's all your get. And that simply isn't /can't be done, the economics of it.

Heavy flyers, high experience dealing with all things flying and rewards imo would offer more solutions and options.
I'm a lowly silver btw so no self interest.

But it's the mum and dads that will gutter the Qf reputation if this doesn't be seen as a positive for all QFF. The media loves a battler

 

[RichardMEL]

The SC earn rate for Points Club members will also be a key factor. I’m hoping it will be either full SC or at least substantially higher than for classic reward seats

An interesting one. I can see it going either way ie same as current CR rate, or as per the revenue fare booked. Shoukd be latter imo.

 

[CaptJCool]

I just fail to see how the average mum and dad flyer out there has enough points for classic plus to work for them. You have to churn a lot of cards to get 1m points (this is roughly 2 J seats to Europe if there is a sale using AFR example). Unless there is a nice surprise this could damage their brand for a long time if the media use simple examples like mine

agreed
if earning DINK THEN likely CC spending points earn per annum (1 point per $) is at minimum 80,000 per year

Classic Rewards
Return Syd - London (EK) (QF metal slightly cheaper)
Points
J 318,000 = couple 636,000
F rate is 455,000 = couple 910,000 (if you can even find two F redemptions!)

Carrier Charges
Emirates - there's some open CRs for Feb/March 2025
$4,137 = at the 1.5cents = "275,000 points"
IF YOU ADD A NOTIONAL value then points needed per couple are about 1,186,000 (but the cash payment negates the need to "actually earn those points in the first place")


Classic Plus in effect is consigning you to J class instead of F as based on points needed to spend but hey at least you get a lie flat bed on the plane

on the sales price of $8,499 that's around 566,000 = couple 1,032,000
this adds an extra two years to the earning (if 80,000 per annum)

and then there's the carrier charges
if the new burn band has none (which I doubt) then on the sales fares, its close enough to CR reward of (points plus carrier charges notionally converted to points)

 

[downgraded]

The reason I think it will become easier to amass 1 million points is that Qantas Loyalty is aiming to *quadruple* profits by the end of the decade.

That means selling *a lot* more points to partners (irrespective of any increase in price).

This becomes a short term thing. People will eventually realise the currency is worth much less than they thought.

As someone else pointed out you are not looking at the cost of the equivalent QF fare, but the price of the BFOD in that cabin.

 

[RichardMEL]

Ok, but asking the plebs what they want the response will just be increase the availability of classic reward seats when I want to fly in peak times, that's all your get. And that simply isn't /can't be done, the economics of it.

Heavy flyers, high experience dealing with all things flying and rewards imo would offer more solutions and options.
I'm a lowly silver btw so no self interest.

I doubt QF are interested in solutions/suggestions from any customers, let alone P1's.

Besides I imagine many fof my ellow P1's would be more interested in keeping the extra CR access benefit and not having that impacted - or indeed extended - eg how hard it is to get QF1,/2 released in J or F.

P1's are going to be far more likely to be points rich (or have the ability to generate more) through sheer engagement with the program, eg through a lot of flying earn, linked in CCs like Amex Ultimate or QF Titanium etc.

For me though, while I could afford that theoretical 800k LHR J Classic+ reward, I still want value, and I'd be far more wanting to exercise that CR release more than this. A points rich Gold though, doesn't have that option. I can't speak for others of course.

Let's face it - all program members will speak from a place of self interest - and those wants will differ between the various status levels.

I had a non flyer friend who racked up 200k points over a few years. There are probably more of those out there than we think. If they could redeem that for say a return to Fiji, that may be considered a positive for them, let alone maybe a parent/kids to Gold Coast during school hols...