Virgin Australia Financially Secure? [Now in Voluntary Administration]

[Doctore1003]

The Australian article begins with Scurrah talking about being at Ansett when it collapsed and how difficult it was for everyone.

The writer (former aviation editor at the Oz) then continues:

[Virgin] looks grim — it is grim — but it is not Ansett.

The factors behind Ansett’s downfall were many and complex but the trigger was a decision by Air New Zealand to exercise its pre-emptive rights on a half share owned by News Ltd.

A deal had been done for the stake to be taken over by deep-pocketed Singapore Airlines, with the proviso that then Ansett chief executive Rod Eddington stay at the helm.
...
The latest estimate of Virgin’s economic contribution to Australia is about $11bn but the airline says the loss would amount to $30bn if it were to disappear because of the flow-on impact to jobs, infrastructure and suppliers.
...
There is also another key difference when it comes to the situation with Ansett, according to Virgin founder and former chief executive Brett Godfrey.

He notes that at the time of Ansett’s collapse, there were already two other more efficient airlines operating in Australia — the Qantas Group and the small but disruptive Virgin Blue.

“If you take a step back and look at the differences, they were that you had an airline (Virgin Blue) that had nine aeroplanes in the market at that time and a trajectory that showed it had great potential to fill the void,’’ he says. “And so they were able to step into the breach.

“It’s different this time because you don’t have an indispensable second competitor in the wings.” ...

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

 

[serfty]

The Australian article begins with Scurrah talking about being at Ansett when it collapsed and how difficult it was for everyone.
...

[moderator hat]

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To avoid breaching copyright law, AFF can not allow large tracts of copyrighted content to be posted.​

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So much of the article content has been redacted.​

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Readers may be able to access the article by 'googling' the title "Troubled Virgin reduced to a wing and industry prayers".​

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e.g. troubled-virgin-reduced-to-a-wing-and-industry-prayers - بحث Google​

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[/moderator hat]

 

[pauly7]

The Australian article begins with Scurrah talking about being at Ansett when it collapsed and how difficult it was for everyone.

The writer (former aviation editor at the Oz) then continues:

NoCookies | The Australian

www.theaustralian.com.au

Not the greatest article to be honest anyway

 

[support]

Paywall. Can you post the article

As @serfty notes above, this is not acceptable practice (any more) and those caught doing this repeatedly may receive warnings for doing so. There are plenty of ways using Google to get around paywalls for personal use, and taking a quote to then discuss would be perfectly acceptable.

 

[eastwest101]

The main point that I took away from the article is that if Virgin Australia does go under then some have suggested, that it wouldn't be a simple matter of someone purchasing the owned aircraft and the AOC and resuming operations (if government restrictions are lifted by then). I have read it elsewhere that by buying the AOC you are also buying all the "baggage" aka the debt so it may be that buying the AOC isn't a viable option because you are buying crippling debt and all the financial liabilities.

If it isn't, then that means applying for a new AOC, which means an approval process that can take around 12 months along with all the other hurdles of obtaining finance and putting a new corporate structure together, with some people with statutory responsibilities (i.e. a chief pilot etc etc), access to airports etc and the obvious hurdle that it would be likely that VA would fall into administration while there are still travel restrictions that prevent any airline from operating domestic flights at a profit, so you would be buying an AOC or applying for a new one in the environment of government restrictions that prevent you from operating an airline. Hardly a conducive environment of starting up or relaunching an airline....

I think its more likely that the Federal Government is going to somehow finance/re-arrange finances or bail out all airlines in Australia unless domestic flights can resume by June, and that would include Qantas, Virgin, Jetstar, Alliance, Rex, Cobham, Sharp and Air North among others, the only question is what form and what formula will be used to refinance or cash-flow all these airlines. You wouldn't expect the Feds to want to "pick winners" among them, but simply offer a mechanism that gives them a good chance of surviving.

You'll note in all the appeals for government help, that Paul Scurragh has made,, he has consistently indicated that whatever help is forthcoming, should be available to all airlines including Qantas.

 

[Melburnian1]

As @serfty notes above, this is not acceptable practice (any more) and those caught doing this repeatedly may receive warnings for doing so. There are plenty of ways using Google to get around paywalls for personal use, and taking a quote to then discuss would be perfectly acceptable.

Admin, I beg to partially differ.

The Nine Group websites are easy to breach by us going incognito.

The News Ltd websites are, as far as I am aware, impossible for those of us not in the IT subsector. I've discussed this with more than one friend and they all report the same difficulty. While I subscribe to one News Ltd paper (including digitally), that does not grant immediate online access to every site in the stable.

 

[support]

The Nine Group websites are easy to breach by us going incognito.

The News Ltd websites are, as far as I am aware, impossible for those of us not in the IT subsector. I've discussed this with more than one friend and they all report the same difficulty. While I subscribe to one News Ltd paper (including digitally), that does not grant immediate online access to every site in the stable.

While some websites may be harder (to access) than others (for free), their business model relies on their reporters getting paid, they do this by putting content behind a paywall. Now, taking small sections of an article and discussing them here is not an issue, but posting the whole article here is. At that stage it's not just about what is right, but the fact that this website could land itself in hot water if we didn't crack down on the practice of ignoring copyright.

Therefore we are policing this more where we see whole articles posted. Repeat offenders could receive a warning. Getting too many warnings can lead to a 7-day ban.

Quite often you only need to quote a few key paragraphs to highlight the main point of an article.

 

[holdenmg]

going incognito.

I'd totally go to incognito if there were flights going there available. lol

 

[deebens]

Admin, I beg to partially differ.

The Nine Group websites are easy to breach by us going incognito.

The News Ltd websites are, as far as I am aware, impossible for those of us not in the IT subsector. I've discussed this with more than one friend and they all report the same difficulty. While I subscribe to one News Ltd paper (including digitally), that does not grant immediate online access to every site in the stable.

There's something called bypass paywalls that should get you in.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Does anyone know if VA is still flying purely freight flights, at least with that, there will be some $ coming in.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Does anyone know if VA is still flying purely freight flights, at least with that, there will be some $ coming in.

Probably will be some ad-hoc work, but we won't know until next week at the earliest. They wet lease a B733F from airwork to run freight on a continuing basis anyway.

Mining charters continue in WA so that will be generating cash, as will the guaranteed work from CCK/XCH flying. There could be charter possibilities within the mining sector from the eastern capitals directly in to mine sites in NW WA.

 

[Melburnian1]

Probably will be some ad-hoc work, but we won't know until next week at the earliest. They wet lease a B733F from airwork to run freight on a continuing basis anyway.

Mining charters continue in WA so that will be generating cash, as will the guaranteed work from CCK/XCH flying. There could be charter possibilities within the mining sector from the eastern capitals directly in to mine sites in NW WA.

These in total must be an insignificant amount compared to total debt and principal/interest/lease payments. Am I correct to assume both major airlines on a group basis must be hugely bleeding cash seven days a week?

An unpredictable event like coronavirus puts the spotlight on how airlines have such high fixed costs. Deferring payments to suppliers, or cancelling payments for entertainment streaming may help at the margin, but unfortunately for these businesses, doesn't rid them of other far higher monetary obligations.

When VA and QF give the ASX their March quarter 2020 updates, we may know more, but that won't give us the full detail on what's occurring today.

 

[Must...Fly!]

VH-VOZ currently flying MEL-HKG.

Does anyone know if this is part of the repatriation operation for the French government, or some other type of ferry? Just wondering as VOZ is the leased B777.

 

[AIRwin]

VH-VOZ currently flying MEL-HKG.

Does anyone know if this is part of the repatriation operation for the French government, or some other type of ferry?

It seems to be turning around back to SYD tomorrow morning whereas the CDG flight is still on its way from BNE via AKL and HKG...

 

[Must...Fly!]

It seems to be turning around back to SYD tomorrow morning whereas the CDG flight is still on its way from BNE via AKL and HKG...

Thanks.
Must be freight then. Pretty sure VOZ has a standard rear cargo door anyway.

 

[oz_mark]

VH-VOZ currently flying MEL-HKG.

Does anyone know if this is part of the repatriation operation for the French government, or some other type of ferry? Just wondering as VOZ is the leased B777.

I think it is a charter flight.

 

[Happy Dude]

Not being a lawyer and all that, I'd be surprised if any attempts to sue AFF for copyright breach would be considered. Organisations like Daily Mail and a host of others rip off content daily and pass it off as their own, and SFA happens to them. Reposting here is not in that category and the intent is to facilitate discussion. Any attempt to bring AFF to account would be met with subscription cancellations, you'd hope.

 

[holdenmg]

Hi,

Yesterday I was looking at: https://www.virginaustralia.com/au/en/ and it indicated the ABN as:
Virgin Australia Airlines Pty Ltd ABN 36 090 670 965
I'm good with that, it checks out at: Current details for ABN 36 090 670 965 | ABN Lookup

Today, I looked at: Great Value Fares on Flights From Australia | Virgin Australia and it indicated the ABN as:
Virgin Australia Airlines Pty Ltd ABN 36 090 670 966

ABN Lookup

abr.business.gov.au

The number entered is not a valid ABN

I wonder what it will show tomorrow...

 

[ThatMrBlake]

Hi,

Yesterday I was looking at: https://www.virginaustralia.com/au/en/ and it indicated the ABN as:
Virgin Australia Airlines Pty Ltd ABN 36 090 670 965
I'm good with that, it checks out at: Current details for ABN 36 090 670 965 | ABN Lookup

Today, I looked at: Great Value Fares on Flights From Australia | Virgin Australia and it indicated the ABN as:
Virgin Australia Airlines Pty Ltd ABN 36 090 670 966

ABN Lookup

abr.business.gov.au

The number entered is not a valid ABN

I wonder what it will show tomorrow...

Just had a look at wayback machine. That looks to be a typo that was there before all this mess started. Checked the snapshot from Dec 2019 and that booking page has the 966 ABN as well.

Great Value Fares on Flights From Australia | Virgin Australia

Get the right fare for the right price when you book your flights from Australia! Explore the world with 100+ destinations to chose from at virginaustralia.com!

web.archive.org

 

[holdenmg]

Just had a look at wayback machine. That looks to be a typo that was there before all this mess started. Checked the snapshot from Dec 2019 and that booking page has the 966 ABN as well.

Great Value Fares on Flights From Australia | Virgin Australia

Get the right fare for the right price when you book your flights from Australia! Explore the world with 100+ destinations to chose from at virginaustralia.com!

web.archive.org

No worries. They totally got to get things like that sorted...