VA Passenger of Size treatment

[pauly7]

Thought I’d post these two incidents and see what people thought. I don’t have a strong position on it, but given I’ve seen it personally twice in a few months, as recently as last week - thought others might be interested.


Flight 1 (about 3 months ago)

Mel / Syd - fairly busy flight but Economy X lightly loaded as usual.

Before take off saw a large POS escorted up to an X seat no doubt free of charge and told ‘this should give you some extra room sir’. He was placed on an aisle seat, no one was in the centre, but there was as someone in the window - who had no hope of getting out easily or quickly! From the conversations that transpired between the two during the flight it appeared the POS was uncomfortable in regular VA seat down the back but wasn’t sitting next to anyone and asked if he could be moved to a ‘bigger’ seat and the cabin crew obliged.

Flight 2 (about 2 weeks ago)

Ool / Mel - fairly busy flight but Economy X lightly loaded as usual.

In the seats across from me was a couple in window and middle seat. A large (male again) POS sat down in the aisle... with pretty significant ‘spillage’ onto them... the look on their faces was fairly horrifying...!

A crew member noticed and then after a few minutes moved the POS again into an X seat (note this was not requested by the POs) but it was pretty clear how uncomfortable he was making his fellow row passengers. The X row he was moved into had no people in it at all.

My thoughts;

Flight 1
I thought this was a bit cheeky, given the man wasn’t impacting anyone else down the back ( at least he stated he didn’t have anyone sitting next to him) and just blagged an upgrade for being uncomfortable.... I don’t esepcially love VA cattle economy myself!
I also think the person who paid for the X seat (or was entitled via Velocity) who sat in the same row as him probably had the right to be a bit annoyed at a freeloader being put in his row...


Flight 2
Given the X row was completely empty I thought the couple who the POS were impacting should have been moved to X seats if anyone was going to be....



Overall though I feel POS shouldn’t be getting free upgrades from Virgin because they haven’t accurately gauged their ability to be comfortable and their impact on fellow passengers correctly. I think VA should be able to charge on the plane for such upgrades perhaps at a premium rate to discourage on the spots??


Anyway thought was interesting have seen this used by VA staff twice in 3 months now. Note I do realise I am not in possession of all the facts obviously being just an observer but thought interesting to share with the community.

 

[straitman]

Thought I’d post these two incidents and see what people thought. I don’t have a strong position on it, but given I’ve seen it personally twice in a few months, as recently as last week - thought others might be interested.


Flight 1 (about 3 months ago)

Mel / Syd - fairly busy flight but Economy X lightly loaded as usual.

Before take off saw a large POS escorted up to an X seat no doubt free of charge and told ‘this should give you some extra room sir’. He was placed on an aisle seat, no one was in the centre, but there was as someone in the window - who had no hope of getting out easily or quickly! From the conversations that transpired between the two during the flight it appeared the POS was uncomfortable in regular VA seat down the back but wasn’t sitting next to anyone and asked if he could be moved to a ‘bigger’ seat and the cabin crew obliged.

Flight 2 (about 2 weeks ago)

Ool / Mel - fairly busy flight but Economy X lightly loaded as usual.

In the seats across from me was a couple in window and middle seat. A large (male again) POS sat down in the aisle... with pretty significant ‘spillage’ onto them... the look on their faces was fairly horrifying...!

A crew member noticed and then after a few minutes moved the POS again into an X seat (note this was not requested by the POs) but it was pretty clear how uncomfortable he was making his fellow row passengers. The X row he was moved into had no people in it at all.

My thoughts;

Flight 1
I thought this was a bit cheeky, given the man wasn’t impacting anyone else down the back ( at least he stated he didn’t have anyone sitting next to him) and just blagged an upgrade for being uncomfortable.... I don’t esepcially love VA cattle economy myself!
I also think the person who paid for the X seat (or was entitled via Velocity) who sat in the same row as him probably had the right to be a bit annoyed at a freeloader being put in his row...


Flight 2
Given the X row was completely empty I thought the couple who the POS were impacting should have been moved to X seats if anyone was going to be....



Overall though I feel POS shouldn’t be getting free upgrades from Virgin because they haven’t accurately gauged their ability to be comfortable and their impact on fellow passengers correctly. I think VA should be able to charge on the plane for such upgrades perhaps at a premium rate to discourage on the spots??


Anyway thought was interesting have seen this used by VA staff twice in 3 months now. Note I do realise I am not in possession of all the facts obviously being just an observer but thought interesting to share with the community.

Only two comments/questions from me.

Is there any real difference between 'VA cattle economy' and Qantas cattle economy?

No matter which way they played this out someone is going to prefer a different option.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Only two comments/questions from me.

Is there any real difference between 'VA cattle economy' and Qantas cattle economy?

No matter which way they played this out someone is going to prefer a different option.

I was thinking the difference was that VA has XL seats, QF doesn't. So in the case of VA the POS was scoring a sort of quasi upgrade, which wouldn't be the case of QF. Who should get the upgrade? The POS or the regular pax they are sitting next to? Tough choice, moving the pax next to them could look like discrimination.

 

[andyhui01]

This happened so often I don't even blink anymore. POS or not, I don't think VA can discriminate. I can't count the number of times I have had a row to myself and get a pax on the aisle who has either upgraded themselves or friends/off duty staff who are upgraded after boarding. I'd be pretty annoyed if I had to pay for the upgrade,

The only time I have given the FA a stare of death and an obviously frustrated look is when they moved 2 pax (she was friendly with them, unsure if friends or just being nice) mid flight and she asked me to move my iPad, drinks and "snack" off the centre tray table. I looked straight at her eyes and down at the name tag on my way out and she just looked past me at the next pax.

 

[Melburnian1]

pauly7, your first man ought not have been moved if he wasn't sitting next to anyone.

In the second case, the couple should have been upgraded.

 

[bullerdude]

I think in these cases whomever the FA's choose to move, someone else will think it should have been done differently.

I can understand the frustration involved where someone is effectively getting a 'free' upgrade but at least all passengers involved should be more comfortable for the flights. Keeping in mind, purchasing an X seat doesn't mean the row is yours, just the seat.

 

[Denali]

As a fat person, I no longer fly Y because of how it affects those around me and because I enjoy J. The benefit of being older and can currently afford it.

For the OP, how does someone being given economy x/and or a shadow seat affect you? They don't. Or is it a matter of someone else is getting something you want or had to pay for?

Every time I read POS, I think Piece Of S***,which makes sales reports and this OP funny.

 

[cmon0005]

VA economy X is hardly an upgrade, isn't it basically an 'exit row' equivalent?

 

[Denali]

And by memory, you can't lift the arm rest in row 3, so if the person needed the width, they would be worse off in row 3.

 

[Hvr]

I think in these cases whomever the FA's choose to move, someone else will think it should have been done differently.

Agreed, they made a decision which is rare these days (excluding decision making by ignoring the matter at hand).

Whether it was appropriate is a matter for the decision maker to explain to their superior.

In these situations there are limited options and the options chosen are all valid.

 

[pauly7]

I

For the OP, how does someone being given economy x/and or a shadow seat affect you? They don't. Or is it a matter of someone else is getting something you want or had to pay for?

Every time I read POS, I think Piece Of S***,which makes sales reports and this OP funny.

Doesn’t really affect me as I wasn’t in the X row, I just thought in both instances it could have been handled differently that’s all.

I think that VA should have charged them for the extra leg room seat if they were moved / or moved the impacted people rather than the POS.

I know POS sounds funny but I’m trying to be PC and avoid annoying people by saying obese or fat

 

[Hvr]

I know POS sounds funny but I’m trying to be PC and avoid annoying people by saying obese or fat

Customer of size (COS) is another term used.

 

[Deleted member]

What a wonderful PC world we live in !

 

[Milboo]

It really doesn’t matter if you think it could have been handled differently. VA crew have made a decision based on the facts they have at hand and possibly corporate policy. I don’t see why you’d move 2pax instead of one - both parties benefit as the couple get a spare seat and the other passenger is also suitable seated.

Sounds like both situations were handled sensitively and discreetly for all involved.

And people need to stop with POS - how about just saying larger passenger?

 

[serfty]

VA economy X is hardly an upgrade, isn't it basically an 'exit row' equivalent?

... Without the need to meet specific requirements.

However, note that economy X has an about 50% more effective usable room than a standard seat.

 

[Sprucegoose]

Thought I’d post these two incidents and see what people thought. I don’t have a strong position on it, but given I’ve seen it personally twice in a few months, as recently as last week - thought others might be interested.


Flight 1 (about 3 months ago)

Mel / Syd - fairly busy flight but Economy X lightly loaded as usual.

Before take off saw a large POS escorted up to an X seat no doubt free of charge and told ‘this should give you some extra room sir’. He was placed on an aisle seat, no one was in the centre, but there was as someone in the window - who had no hope of getting out easily or quickly! From the conversations that transpired between the two during the flight it appeared the POS was uncomfortable in regular VA seat down the back but wasn’t sitting next to anyone and asked if he could be moved to a ‘bigger’ seat and the cabin crew obliged.

Flight 2 (about 2 weeks ago)

Ool / Mel - fairly busy flight but Economy X lightly loaded as usual.

In the seats across from me was a couple in window and middle seat. A large (male again) POS sat down in the aisle... with pretty significant ‘spillage’ onto them... the look on their faces was fairly horrifying...!

A crew member noticed and then after a few minutes moved the POS again into an X seat (note this was not requested by the POs) but it was pretty clear how uncomfortable he was making his fellow row passengers. The X row he was moved into had no people in it at all.

My thoughts;

Flight 1
I thought this was a bit cheeky, given the man wasn’t impacting anyone else down the back ( at least he stated he didn’t have anyone sitting next to him) and just blagged an upgrade for being uncomfortable.... I don’t esepcially love VA cattle economy myself!
I also think the person who paid for the X seat (or was entitled via Velocity) who sat in the same row as him probably had the right to be a bit annoyed at a freeloader being put in his row...


Flight 2
Given the X row was completely empty I thought the couple who the POS were impacting should have been moved to X seats if anyone was going to be....



Overall though I feel POS shouldn’t be getting free upgrades from Virgin because they haven’t accurately gauged their ability to be comfortable and their impact on fellow passengers correctly. I think VA should be able to charge on the plane for such upgrades perhaps at a premium rate to discourage on the spots??


Anyway thought was interesting have seen this used by VA staff twice in 3 months now. Note I do realise I am not in possession of all the facts obviously being just an observer but thought interesting to share with the community.

I believe you have been way too kind in your description and language of these situations !! All exits must be kept clear at all times.

 

[pauly7]

It really doesn’t matter if you think it could have been handled differently. VA crew have made a decision based on the facts they have at hand and possibly corporate policy.

I understand it doesn't matter what I think.... I was just putting my view forward that if larger passengers / POS whatever we call them are 'upgraded' even to just VA XL room seats in flight - shouldn't they pay for the privilege if they haven't done the diligence on making sure they will fit a regular seat without inconveniencing others....

 

[samh004]

This is what comfort seats were invented for. Seems appropriate that you be made to pay for the extra seat if you want it... although if you're at the back and no one is in the middle seat you can simply raise the armrest. I do recall when I used to fly with comfort seats though, that crew did not allow me to do this before takeoff... although presumably if I was so large that I'd paid for 2 seats they would let me? We may never know

 

[MEL_Traveller]

This is what comfort seats were invented for. Seems appropriate that you be made to pay for the extra seat if you want it... although if you're at the back and no one is in the middle seat you can simply raise the armrest. I do recall when I used to fly with comfort seats though, that crew did not allow me to do this before takeoff... although presumably if I was so large that I'd paid for 2 seats they would let me? We may never know

There's a safety element to arm rests being down during critical stages of flight. In an emergency you don't want a raised armrest slapping in to you at 200km/hr as the plane comes to a sudden halt. Armrests down will prevent sideways movement between seats. If a group of three pax all had their armrests up up you could find pax 2 and 3 sliding across squashing passenger 1 (like in one of those fairground rides that spin around in circles). Finally, armrests in the down position may provide a point of leverage to passengers needing to raise themselves up to get out quickly.

If you were a COS physically across more than one seat, some of those safety issues are lessened. But you still want the armrest down between other passengers.

 

[JohnK]

I'm obese but for now don't have issues fitting into bulkhead seats. I will not sit in middle seat and my preference is aisle seat and I try not to make flight uncomfortable for others.

Some don't think the same.

A few years back on a relatively full VA flight I was down the back in an aisle seat and when I got to my seat the person sitting in middle seat was huge. They were spilling into my seat and I had difficulty sitting down. What made it worse was they made very little effort to keep inside their seat nor apologise for the inconvenience. Apology is not mandatory but appreciated.

Called an FA over for assistance and they managed to find a vacant aisle seat further back which I accepted. The whole flight I could see the person sitting in my seat with a vacant seat next to them and I wasn't too happy they got away with their stunt which I thought was an intentional calculated risk that paid off.

I also suspect the person was not a regular flyer.

I'm not sure what the right answer is or how to handle these situations but if you know you cannot fit into a seat then please buy a comfort seat or purchase a seat in a higher cabin instead of inconveniencing those unfortunate to be seated near you.