VA Passenger of Size treatment

[clipped_wings]

Every time I read POS, I think Piece Of S***,which makes sales reports and this OP funny.

I work in advertising, so the term POS means Point Of Sale. I was having a hard time interpreting the abbreviation as used in this thread without having a delightful cloud bubble floating above my head, illustrating a passenger sitting in a cramped cardboard box at the end of a plane's aisle, with SPECIAL printed all over them.

I'll take a person of generous girth any day over a fascist who vocally expresses their disgust at minority groups who have the audacity to be on the same plane throughout an entire flight.

 

[Milboo]

Glad I’m not the only one who reads POS as Point of Sale @clipped_wings !!

 

[harvyk]

I find out it interesting how many peoples response is that the COS should have simply purchased a J seat. News flash, J seats are expensive, and out of reach for most flyers. That fact is the reason why forums like this exist. Edit: even VA Y-X costs more, extra costs is sometimes out of reach no matter how small.

Now I've been lucky enough to have gotten opups from time to time, not because of my size, just because I won the algorithm. I got J seats and service for free whilst sitting next to J pax whom had paid thousands for their seat. Is that fair?

In both those instances those COS where probably expecting a ordinary flight, so that small upgrade would have been most appreciated. As someone who is taller and larger than average I do know what it's like to be in a world designed for a human a little bit smaller than you.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I find out it interesting how many peoples response is that the COS should have simply purchased a J seat. News flash, J seats are expensive, and out of reach for most flyers. That fact is the reason why forums like this exist. Edit: even VA Y-X costs more, extra costs is sometimes out of reach no matter how small.

To be fair I don't think anyone has suggested that in this thread? But the purchase of a comfort seat shouldn't be out of the question. They aren't that expensive. And airlines could meet the passenger half-way by offering a scheme similar to Southwest... if the plane has a corresponding unsold seat the cost of the comfort seat is refunded. This might rule out peak flights at 6, 7 and 8am (and corresponding evening peak), but for a leisure traveller this shouldn't be a major problem. If they're flying for business at peak times then it's a company cost for the second seat.

 

[harvyk]

To be fair I don't think anyone has suggested that in this thread?

Sorry, you are right, in this instance it was not suggested (usually it is, so I was getting in early )

But the purchase of a comfort seat shouldn't be out of the question. They aren't that expensive.

What you (I suspect, I don't really know) or I consider a small cost can easily be a big cost for someone else. Going back a few years finding even an extra $100 for something that was not 100% necessary was a neigh impossible task for me. (Some of my early jobs, I was not well paid).

Not everyone whom travels is well off, some people have scrimped and saved to be able to afford even a modest holiday.

 

[clipped_wings]

Not everyone whom travels is well off, some people have scrimped and saved to be able to afford even a modest holiday.

Amen to that. We are not well off - BECAUSE we travel. We're not skinny, but while neither of us could play a credible Santa Claus, we do like room to move. Husband is over 6' and just about to have 2 x knee replacements. We either fly Premium or Business class simply to accommodate his situation. There's a huge financial implication, but we accept it and gladly pay for the right to enjoy more comfort.

I guess by flying in a wider seat, I am taking this type of scenario out of the equation and insuring myself against having to deal with an awkward situation with a person of more generous girth.

 

[FromTheRail]

In the first case I would have left the guy back in the seat he was in, unless he had status or paid for the upgrade, he wasn't bothering anyone and got what he paid for.

In the second case I would have moved the couple and left the guy in the 'seats' he was sitting in, the couple weren't getting the seat they paid for for in my view had the right to be moved/upgraded, but this would have also meant that he had more space than he had paid for, bu tnot much you can do about that.

I'm a big guy, not fat but tall and have wide shoulders, I choose not to fly on certain airlines/planes due to me not fitting in, I gladly pay extra for more room but for now unfortunately I can't justify J prices even though I do use points for J/F flights sometimes, so I usually end up in Virgin X or other exit row seats, I try and book flights as far in advance as possible so I can pick the best seats even if i need to pay for it.

I don't believe that just because you can't afford more for a bigger seat is a valid excuse, flying is not a necessity, it's a luxury, plenty of people can't even afford a flight/holiday.

 

[harvyk]

I don't believe that just because you can't afford more for a bigger seat is a valid excuse, flying is not a necessity, it's a luxury, plenty of people can't even afford a flight/holiday.

Scenario for you, I don't have very much money and I never fly. I've just spent the last year saving my pennies and I finally have enough money to purchase a holiday for me and my family. I get on board and find that the seat is just a little bit more squishy than I was expecting. It wasn't malicious, it wasn't trying to game the system in hope for a free upgrade, I just honestly didn't know the size of the seats and I don't have a lot of money, certainly not enough to effectively pay twice for the one seat. Now what?

You need to remember, beyond money being tight for some people, whilst I and most of the people on this board their last flight wasn't that long ago, and they don't have long to wait until their next flight, the average person fly's a lot less than that. It's entirely possible that you'd have someone whom has either never flown, or it's been many years since their last flight who would not really have an idea just how small Y seats really are.

Long story short, I really don't have a problem with an airline putting someone whom is a bit taller, or wider than the average pax into more comfortable seating. I don't see why if someone has to be upgraded in a row of 3 that it's the COS needs to be punished because it would be the other two pax whom are "missing out on what they paid for and therefore deserve the upgrade".

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Scenario for you, I don't have very much money and I never fly. I've just spent the last year saving my pennies and I finally have enough money to purchase a holiday for me and my family. I get on board and find that the seat is just a little bit more squishy than I was expecting. It wasn't malicious, it wasn't trying to game the system in hope for a free upgrade, I just honestly didn't know the size of the seats and I don't have a lot of money, certainly not enough to effectively pay twice for the one seat. Now what?

You need to remember, beyond money being tight for some people, whilst I and most of the people on this board their last flight wasn't that long ago, and they don't have long to wait until their next flight, the average person fly's a lot less than that. It's entirely possible that you'd have someone whom has either never flown, or it's been many years since their last flight who would not really have an idea just how small Y seats really are.

I agree with this in principle, but I'm not sure we're all on the same page with defining COS?

My one and only incident was in the US a few months ago where the COS was so large they occupied 1/3 or my seat. With my bottom and hips locked in by the armrest I was forced to bend from just under my rib cage out into the aisle. This was extremely uncomfortable, unsustainable, and not safe.

I would hazard a guess that a COS of those proportions wouldn't be confused as to the size of the seats as unfortunately they'd experience these difficulties every day on public transport, at a waiting room (dentist, doctor whatever), and even at work.

clipped_wings makes the comment that they'd rather a COS than a racist. The racist is, of course, completely unacceptable. But if we look at a 'true' COS then it's actually impossible for an adjoining passenger to sit in the seat and fly at all (no excuses but the racist can either be off-loaded before departure, or sanctioned by police on arrival. They shouldn't be allowed to fly, but at least everyone else gets to where they need to be).

I accept flying is not always a luxury. You may need to fly for medical treatment or to visit sick family or relatives. This is where airlines could perhaps come to the party with the comfort seat refunded if there are spare seats.

 

[drron]

Quite a few airlines do have policies.Quite frankly I agree with the BA policy-if you cant do up the seat belt and fit in the seat with the armrests down then get a second seat.
Some airlines do let you book a second seat without charge-eg in Canada where obesity is classified a disability-though you do need a doctors letter.
Some give discounts on a second seat.Some reimburse the second seat cost if the plane isn't full.
A recent summary-
Airline Obesity Policies - SmarterTravel

However like JohnK I am a larger person although I do meet BA's guidelines for only purchasing 1 seat.I always select an aisle seat if flying domestically in Y.Surely the person who is of larger proportions does need to consider the comfort of others on the plane.Many obviously do not.

 

[FromTheRail]

Scenario for you, I don't have very much money and I never fly. I've just spent the last year saving my pennies and I finally have enough money to purchase a holiday for me and my family. I get on board and find that the seat is just a little bit more squishy than I was expecting. It wasn't malicious, it wasn't trying to game the system in hope for a free upgrade, I just honestly didn't know the size of the seats and I don't have a lot of money, certainly not enough to effectively pay twice for the one seat. Now what?

You need to remember, beyond money being tight for some people, whilst I and most of the people on this board their last flight wasn't that long ago, and they don't have long to wait until their next flight, the average person fly's a lot less than that. It's entirely possible that you'd have someone whom has either never flown, or it's been many years since their last flight who would not really have an idea just how small Y seats really are.

Long story short, I really don't have a problem with an airline putting someone whom is a bit taller, or wider than the average pax into more comfortable seating. I don't see why if someone has to be upgraded in a row of 3 that it's the COS needs to be punished because it would be the other two pax whom are "missing out on what they paid for and therefore deserve the upgrade".

If the passenger has had to save that hard for a holiday, should the passenger really be going on a holiday that involves air travel, why not holiday close by, and keep the money in the local community, like what they used to do in the old days before flights were as cheap as they are these days.

As I said before flying is a luxury not a necessity.

 

[harvyk]

If the passenger has had to save that hard for a holiday, should the passenger really be going on a holiday that involves air travel, why not holiday close by, and keep the money in the local community, like what they used to do in the old days before flights were as cheap as they are these days.

As I said before flying is a luxury not a necessity.

Who are we to say where a person should be holidaying? Who is to say the flight is an actual holiday? People travel privately for a variety of reasons, even those who don't have very much money.

 

[Flatforlonghaul]

I work in advertising, so the term POS means Point Of Sale. I was having a hard time interpreting the abbreviation as used in this thread without having a delightful cloud bubble floating above my head, illustrating a passenger sitting in a cramped cardboard box at the end of a plane's aisle, with SPECIAL printed all over them.

I'll take a person of generous girth any day over a fascist who vocally expresses their disgust at minority groups who have the audacity to be on the same plane throughout an entire flight.

You've made it clear that you don't travel much and only have politics in mind when you do. How sad.

 

[clipped_wings]

You've made it clear that you don't travel much and only have politics in mind when you do. How sad.

Wow, thank you for that forensic assessment of my shallow personality.

I would like to think that my fellow fliers on this forum do not share your unfavorable opinion of me. However, if anyone here concurs with you, please accept my full and unreserved apology for any offence I have caused - and do let me know on this thread so I can personally make amends.

I fly enough to have a right to comment. I have never sought to openly degrade anyone here, I try to balance my perspective with a bit of humor and my self confessed limited flying anecdotal knowledge. Flatforlonghaul - you are entitled to your opinion of me and I'm cool with that. But don't ever accuse me of being some political zealot. You are so far off the mark there mate. And your comment is both counter productive and offensive.

 

[mrs.dr.ron]

..........................................
As I said before flying is a luxury not a necessity.

For a lot of people flying IS a necessity. My grandkids live in Sydney - if I want to see them I have to fly to see them.

 

[Ralphie]

I’m a COS. I need an extender belt when flying. However I’m “lucky” that I don’t spill into other seats, can get the arm rest down etc. Flying in economy is agony for me as I am acutely aware of how I’m seen on a plane and in case I do spill slightly over I will fold into myself as much as possible. I always give up the arm rest, for example, and fly with my arms wrapped over my chest where it’s possible. I will try everything to not be in your way.

Ideally I do pay the extra/use points for J or PE seats, but a lot of my travel is paid for by my employer and I have no choice but to fly economy. I feel awful about it. So please don’t think we aren’t aware of the issues we bring, but sometimes there just isn’t a better travel option.

(And yes, I’m working on my weight.)

 

[earlyriser]

Is POH a thing (person of height)?

Back in the day, I used to get moved with relative ease both at check-in and during international flights. Once that stopped and they started charging and making it more difficult, I got into the points/status game and the rest is history.

 

[clipped_wings]

Best airlines for overweight passengers in Australia | finder.com.au

There seems to be a lot of discussion of this topic on various websites. The inference that it becomes a recognized disability is a fragile one, as it could open a Pandora's Box, with everyone claiming their own affliction is a disability - and thus entitled to dispensation.

I really do sympathize with anyone who, for whatever reason - feels they are an imposition on the passenger sitting next to them. As many of you know, our boy has autism. And his intolerance of anyone in the cabin who sniffs, sneezes, coughs or clears their throat, is torture for him and huge embarrassment for us. Tried the noise cancelling headphones, they alleviate things a little, but he can get very inappropriate and will often have a huge spasm.

We do the best we can, sometimes we apologize if it's affecting people in close range. Most people find him funny and are politely accommodating. We tend to smile and laugh at ourselves a lot. We also take ownership of our son and his situation. It helps us to have a healthy dose of humility.

 

[JohnK]

Long story short, I really don't have a problem with an airline putting someone whom is a bit taller, or wider than the average pax into more comfortable seating. I don't see why if someone has to be upgraded in a row of 3 that it's the COS needs to be punished because it would be the other two pax whom are "missing out on what they paid for and therefore deserve the upgrade".

I agree with your points in general but I also think most people would know if they fit into an econony seat or not.

My concern would be what would happen to me had the flight I mentioned above was full or only a scattering of middle seats available? I had aisle pre-allocated but could not sit there as the person in middle was taking up almost half my seat.

FA found another aisle seat. What if flight was full? Who misses out? Me for being late to board? What if only middle seat available? Put me in middle seat and then make the other 2 around me uncomfortable? I can fit in middle seat but my shoulders are also wide so I'd have to sit side on.

All this because someone who doesn't fit in one seat saved hard to fly but it's ok to inconvenience others? I save hard too. All my flights come out of my pocket.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Best airlines for overweight passengers in Australia | finder.com.au

Interesting. There's a couple of errors in the table - Virgin having the 787, but what I picked up was that Jetstar has an option for the purchase of a second seat. Given earlier feedback on AFF I thought that was an error - but it's actually correct and the link provided takes you to the special assistance page where they recommend buying a seond (or more) seats.