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United seeks open skies over Pacific

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Yada Yada

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theaustralian.news.com.au said:
United seeks open skies over Pacific
Steve Creedy, Aviation writer
August 05, 2006

AUSTRALIA faces new pressure to open up lucrative air routes across the Pacific, this time from the US.

United Airlines has told the US Government it should use moves by Jetstar and Virgin Blue to establish trans-Pacific services as a lever to negotiate an open-skies policy with Australia.

The giant carrier, the only US airline to fly direct services from the US's west coast, says Australian carriers have found themselves "hoist on the petard constructed by their own protectionist policies".

United says the US should use the leverage created by the situation "to achieve an end of all anti-competitive restrictions for all carriers on all routes".

United notes that it had been prevented from adding the level of service it wanted on US-Australia routes via Japan.

It says: "Rather than offering an incremental exception to the capacity limits to accommodate Jetstar's schedule, the US should offer Australia and its carriers the opportunity to operate services without any restriction on capacity or routings by entering into an open-skies agreement."

Full Story...
If United can get the US Government to support them on this, the Australian Government may find itself having to drop some of its preferential treatment of Qantas.
 

Mwenenzi

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United Airlines has told the US Government it should use moves by Jetstar and Virgin Blue to establish trans-Pacific services as a lever to negotiate an open-skies policy with Australia.
There is an open skies policy between US & Aust. That is how Hawaiian started there flights from USA to Aust. And how any other US or Australian airline can fly these routes.

USA however does not allow QF to sell LAX-JFK tickets (a non-free trade - protectionist policy for the US legacy carriers). Just as US law prohibits in US company owning a US airline (another non free trade protectionist policy)

Flying via another country is another matter involving all 3 countries.
 

wandering_fred

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Flying via another country is another matter involving all 3 countries.


Care to expand on that?
Or at least explain some of the politics of the Oz-Japan flight schedule politics.

Thanks

Fred

 

oz_mark

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Mwenenzi said:
There is an open skies policy between US & Aust. That is how Hawaiian started there flights from USA to Aust. And how any other US or Australian airline can fly these routes.
There are limitations on the number of flights a new carrier can have between the US and Australia, so it is not really an open skies policy.
 

cssaus

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Several years ago UA were talking about a Sydney-Tokyo-New York flight and I recall being in UA's office in Sydney and seeing a map on the wall that had the route marked in.

Sadly they were unable to get approval from the countries involved and the plans were dropped.

Maybe next time.
 

Yada Yada

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It will be fascinating to see where this leads. QF are obviously keen to get JQ flying to HNL but will not want to see any other US-based airlines flying the pacific.

However if JQ and DJ do get what they want, it would be only fair to allow another US carrier to fly the routes. Virgin America would be a darn good choice!

There is an interesting follow-up story here: United reminds Jetstar that protectionist policy cuts both ways
 
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NM

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Yada Yada said:
It will be fascinating to see where this leads. QF are obviously keen to get JQ flying to HNL but will not want to see any other US-based airlines flying the pacific.

However if JQ and DJ do get what they want, it would be only fair to allow another US carrier to fly the routes. Virgin America would be a darn good choice!

There is an interesting follow-up story here: United reminds Jetstar that protectionist policy cuts both ways
Any US carrier can fly the route now. They just need to apply. The only restriction is that a new-comer to the route cannot start with more than a limited number of weekly services (not sure of the exact limit, bit something like 4 or 5 per week, certainly less than daily). JQ has applied for a daily service to HNL and its that fast start-up that UA is complaining about.

Given that CO, NW and AA have all flown the Pacific in the past, its possible they would not be restricted to the less-than-daily start-up schedule if they wanted to re-enter the market.

Personally I think QF would welcome another US-based airline operating the route. It would take some heat off the arguments put forward by SQ for entry into the market. But few have the capability of operating and successfully competing on the route.
 

Kiwi Flyer

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Yada Yada said:
However if JQ and DJ do get what they want, it would be only fair to allow another US carrier to fly the routes. Virgin America would be a darn good choice!
Maybe not. Virgin America, if it ever gets going, will be a LCC. Not to be confused with the full service airline Virgin Atlantic (which already flies to Australia but only via HKG).
 

Yada Yada

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Kiwi Flyer said:
Maybe not. Virgin America, if it ever gets going, will be a LCC. Not to be confused with the full service airline Virgin Atlantic (which already flies to Australia but only via HKG).
Yes, it's more wishful thinking on my part. ;)

Virgin Blue wants to start a daily service to the USA but under the current agreement would be restricted to 4 services per week. If Virgin America was given reciprocal rights to fly 3 or 4 services per week it would give Virgin Group a daily service between the USA and Australia and also be the only airline group to truly fly around the world.
 

JohnK

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Yada Yada said:
Virgin Blue wants to start a daily service to the USA but under the current agreement would be restricted to 4 services per week. If Virgin America was given reciprocal rights to fly 3 or 4 services per week it would give Virgin Group a daily service between the USA and Australia and also be the only airline group to truly fly around the world.
Does the virgin group fly to SIN or BKK? I am definately joining velocity then.
 

Kiwi Flyer

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Yada Yada said:
If Virgin America was given reciprocal rights to fly 3 or 4 services per week it would give Virgin Group a daily service between the USA and Australia and also be the only airline group to truly fly around the world.
Nope.

SQ flies around the world, serving both coasts of USA and also serving New York on both transpacific and transatlantic flights.

NZ will, from late October, fly around the world, serving LHR via HKG and via LAX.
 

Kiwi Flyer

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JohnK said:
Does the virgin group fly to SIN or BKK? I am definately joining velocity then.
Virgin Atlantic flies to SIN, HKG and NRT. Not sure about BKK (don't think so).

Note VS is a partner of SQ (counts towards status also), NZ (no status earning) and DJ (again no status earning).
 

Yada Yada

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Kiwi Flyer said:
Nope.

SQ flies around the world, serving both coasts of USA and also serving New York on both transpacific and transatlantic flights.

NZ will, from late October, fly around the world, serving LHR via HKG and via LAX.
What I am suggesting (or rather hoping) is that one day I could fly SYD-SFO on DJ, SFO-New York on Virgin America, New York-LHR on VS, LHR-HKG-SYD also on VS.
 

bfmi

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Kiwi Flyer said:
Note VS is a partner of SQ (counts towards status also), NZ (no status earning) and DJ (again no status earning).
Actually, VS is more than just a partner of SQ, SQ owns 49% of Virgin Atlantic.

Longer term, Branson buys back more of Virgin Blue, strikes another deal with SQ - easy access for SQ to carry pax over pacific via another brand!!
 

Kiwi Flyer

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Yada Yada said:
What I am suggesting (or rather hoping) is that one day I could fly SYD-SFO on DJ, SFO-New York on Virgin America, New York-LHR on VS, LHR-HKG-SYD also on VS.
I realise that. I disagree with your comment that should that eventuate, Virgin group would be the only airline to fly around the world. SQ already does, and NZ will do in 2 months time.
 

Yada Yada

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Kiwi Flyer said:
I realise that. I disagree with your comment that should that eventuate, Virgin group would be the only airline to fly around the world. SQ already does, and NZ will do in 2 months time.
Oh, OK. Sorry. :oops:
 
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