The 6:30am BNE-SYD is gone and I am not on it [No ESTA]

[anat0l]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

I'm not aware of any instances where pax have been charged by QF to moved to a later BNE/SYD flight while their ESTA is obtained. If pax is travelling with baggage and other travel companions then the bags can be checked in against the other people in the meantime to the US. If the ESTA is done in time in BNE then the pax can be checked in for the subsequent SYD/LAX flight before they leave BNE.

As a last resort they could be checked in at SYD but that would only be if there wasn't sufficient time to complete the ESTA application prior to the departure of the BNE/SYD flight.

Does Altea / Amadeus allow one to separate the check-in of consecutive connected sectors so the pax can fly only BNE-SYD, for example? Is this a difficult thing to do or is every agent trained to be able to do this easily?

You say that letting the pax check-in at the gateway is a last resort. That would be the last place where you could do it for sure, but are you implying that it is not ideal to let a passenger travel to the gateway without having checked in for the flight to the US from that gateway (i.e. the carrier takes on a certain amount of risk by doing this)?


One thing that hasn't been raised is whether VA has a system (which is not Altea / Amadeus) which would have allowed them to do the same thing as QF in a case like this, i.e. check-in for only one sector to allow the passenger to fly on that. If VA's system doesn't have such a capability or requires higher privileges than that given to the check-in agents, then the suggested solution of letting JohnK fly to SYD would not work. Of course, he could write in about that and the customer service at VA may well concede that would have been possible, which might raise the possibility that extra training of the check-in staff at BNE is required.

 

[JohnK]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

This is the disappointing part of AFF I think. I really love this forum and it has helped me so much, but I must admit there are times I'm nervous about posting something for fear of being shredded by fellow AFF's. Everyone has an experience to share and it's these experiences that help us all to learn. I'll be honest, JohnK's comment about the VA LCC mentality and the way they handled it did irk me a little,but it was his experience and he felt let down, so it's not up to me to pass judgement as I wasn't there. Regardless of whether he was right or wrong, I appreciate him posting about the experience - it's something that I have noted for when I make my first USA jaunt. Thanks JohnK, I'll never forget the ESTA now.

We all make mistakes. I have no respect for people who live and breath I told you so and kicking someone when they are down.

I lost all my money once in Thailand. Luckily my head was still screwed on and liver and other organs not missing and the rest of the valuables were still there. Learned my lesson.

Today's experience has left bitter taste in mouth. Sure it is stupidity on my part but to absolve Virgin of any blame is wrong. They are to blame. They could have issued me a boarding pass to SYD this morning and right now I would have been half way to the USA. I was looking forward to this trip. A morale booster if you like. Virgin chose to handle it differently and yes another lesson for JohnK not to put any faith or trust in the Virgin organisation. Not good enough. I criticise Qantas a lot but think they would have done much better in the same situation.

Once I had ESTA in place VA would not transfer me to the 7:30am flight as that did not meet minimum connection. But and I have to laugh they would sell me a ticket at walk up rates on the 7:30am flight. I am not even sure they would have checked me in for international as technically I had missed first flight on itinerary so no time to fix up in SYD.

Lesson learnt today. Virgin do not handle difficult situations. Virgin do not need my business.

I will continue to fly Virgin the bare minimum sectors required for Gold status. I cannot earn status on cheap SQ airfares but I can earn it on Virgin and use the lounge access and luggage allowance on SQ.

For me lesson learnt. It won't happen again. Hope someone else learns something from this thread. And to the detractors? I have nothing nice to say to you and you will be duly ignored.

 

[serfty]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

One irony is that VA1 left the gate 19 minutes late this morning - not that those at BNE would have known it were to be so at 6am.

 

[nlagalle]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

Today's experience has left bitter taste in mouth. Sure it is stupidity on my part but to absolve Virgin of any blame is wrong. They are to blame. They could have issued me a boarding pass to SYD this morning and right now I would have been half way to the USA. I was looking forward to this trip. A morale booster if you like. Virgin chose to handle it differently and yes another lesson for JohnK not to put any faith or trust in the Virgin organisation. Not good enough. I criticise Qantas a lot but think they would have done much better in the same situation.

Once I had ESTA in place VA would not transfer me to the 7:30am flight as that did not meet minimum connection. But and I have to laugh they would sell me a ticket at walk up rates on the 7:30am flight. I am not even sure they would have checked me in for international as technically I had missed first flight on itinerary so no time to fix up in SYD.

Lesson learnt today. Virgin do not handle difficult situations. Virgin do not need my business.

I will continue to fly Virgin the bare minimum sectors required for Gold status. I cannot earn status on cheap SQ airfares but I can earn it on Virgin and use the lounge access and luggage allowance on SQ.

For me lesson learnt. It won't happen again. Hope someone else learns something from this thread. And to the detractors? I have nothing nice to say to you and you will be duly ignored.

JohnK, Virgin are not to blame.. please stop saying that (and it's probably why many are having a so called kick someone while they are down moment). You do not know how their system (sabre) work and i am guessing that it won't allow it to issue the BP on the domestic leg. fact was you needed an ESTA, you didn't get one in time and when you did checkin for your flight had closed and I don't know any airline that would re-open checkin either. The exact same thing could have happened to you on Qantas too.

Chalk it up to experience and look forward to the next trip.

 

[PLANT]

Esta rookie mistake not having it up to date
Remember when QANTAS let Molly on and when he got there..... Back he came.... No ESTA!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

Once I had ESTA in place VA would not transfer me to the 7:30am flight as that did not meet minimum connection. But and I have to laugh they would sell me a ticket at walk up rates on the 7:30am flight. I am not even sure they would have checked me in for international as technically I had missed first flight on itinerary so no time to fix up in SYD.

Aren't these two separate and unrelated issues? Or did they say they would sell you a ticket on the 0730, and you would then have to argue your case in SYD on arrival?

 

[anat0l]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

Aren't these two separate and unrelated issues? Or did they say they would sell you a ticket on the 0730, and you would then have to argue your case in SYD on arrival?

It would seem silly if they did.

The way I had originally read it, I thought the walk-up fare change was for either a new BNE-SYD-LAX or convert to direct BNE-LAX. Not BNE-SYD; I don't think I've seen Y fares on BNE/SYD come up to USD 1000.

Whether or not it was a change to the base ticket (which VA would have had under airport control) or a new ticket is nearly immaterial.

 

[PLANT]

So how much out of pocket was this ticket..... Work or personal expense?
Any refund on ticket?
How much you selling the return flight for?

 

[mrs.dr.ron]

Esta rookie mistake not having it up to date
Remember when QANTAS let Molly on and when he got there..... Back he came.... No ESTA!

That's not quite right - Molly had a visa - it was the wrong one - as he was going to work.

"The television personality Ian "Molly" Meldrum has fallen foul of the US's tougher border control regime and has been refused entry to the country.
Meldrum was forced to book an immediate return flight after being blocked at the entry to Los Angeles Airport on the grounds he possessed an invalid visa.
The Department of Foreign Affairs confirmed the incident yesterday, saying Meldrum has been ordered to return home because his visa did not permit him to work in the US. Meldrum had flown to the US to interview the singer Enrique Iglesias " from smh.com.au

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

It would seem silly if they did.

The way I had originally read it, I thought the walk-up fare change was for either a new BNE-SYD-LAX or convert to direct BNE-LAX. Not BNE-SYD; I don't think I've seen Y fares on BNE/SYD come up to USD 1000.

Whether or not it was a change to the base ticket (which VA would have had under airport control) or a new ticket is nearly immaterial.

Two different scenarios from my reading. (a) try to reaccommodate on the non-stop BNE-LAX - $1000 (b) try to get on the next flight to SYD under the original ticket, but told that would fall short of MCT. The OP then looked at flying to SYD under their own steam - and could have purchased a separate and unrelated ticket on the 0730.

The issue is that while VA was probably happy to sell the OP a ticket to SYD on the 0730, I'm not sure how that relates to picking up the original flight SYD-LAX. Did VA say the OP would still have a chance to make it?

 

[serfty]

Ticket was exceptionally discounted at AUD375 rt ...

I have one of these in a couple of months which cost AUD400 I'll be checking in wjen it opens fory 6pm MEL-BNE flight.

 

[serfty]

...

The issue is that while VA was probably happy to sell the OP a ticket to SYD on the 0730, I'm not sure how that relates to picking up the original flight SYD-LAX. Did VA say the OP would still have a chance to make it?

Scheduled departure time for VA1 was 0950 ...

 

[anat0l]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

Two different scenarios from my reading. (a) try to reaccommodate on the non-stop BNE-LAX - $1000 (b) try to get on the next flight to SYD under the original ticket, but told that would fall short of MCT. The OP then looked at flying to SYD under their own steam - and could have purchased a separate and unrelated ticket on the 0730.

The issue is that while VA was probably happy to sell the OP a ticket to SYD on the 0730, I'm not sure how that relates to picking up the original flight SYD-LAX. Did VA say the OP would still have a chance to make it?

I would like to think VA are not that stupid to sell a ticket on the 0730 with the attached confidence that he could recover the international sector, which is both unrealistic time-wise as well as not considering whether the ticket has already gone to forfeit due to not flying in sequence.

Of course, maybe the VA agent(s) is (are) really that thick which means they need some serious re-training.



As a bit of a side note / lighter side, "no esta" in Spanish means (essentially) "not applicable", "not this" or "not here"....

 

[JohnK]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

Aren't these two separate and unrelated issues? Or did they say they would sell you a ticket on the 0730, and you would then have to argue your case in SYD on arrival?

That was my understanding.

After the ESTA was approved she was quite happy to sell me a ticket on the 7:30am flight to SYD but would not change the original ticket as it did not meet minimum connection. By this I assumed I was not going to be checked into SYD-LAX and was going to miss check-in cut off anyway.

JohnK, Virgin are not to blame.. please stop saying that (and it's probably why many are having a so called kick someone while they are down moment). You do not know how their system (sabre) work and i am guessing that it won't allow it to issue the BP on the domestic leg. fact was you needed an ESTA, you didn't get one in time and when you did checkin for your flight had closed and I don't know any airline that would re-open checkin either. The exact same thing could have happened to you on Qantas too.

Oh but you are wrong. Virgin are to blame. Waited too long in international check-in queue while someone was rearranging luggage and then would not check me into domestic flight. I don't care what their system does or does not do. They failed me this morning and yes it was my fault to start with but Virgin could have tried to help instead of telling me "Can't do this" or "Can't do that". And we have read that Qantas would have handled the situation differently.

Virgin a clueless when it comes to customer care. I don't need you or anyone else to tell me otherwise. My experiences are my experiences and they differ from yours.

And no it is not right to knock someone when they are down. Never. Not on AFF not anywhere. Not sure where that stupid mentality comes from it's wrong. But it has been noted for future reference.

Chalk it up to experience and look forward to the next trip.

I have chalked it up to experience but there is no harm debating the matter like human beings. Is it?

And I would be stupid if I did not pursue the matter with Virgin customer care. What have I got to lose? May get another flight or some SCs and points out of it if I put my case forward. That's why this thread has been good because there have been some really good suggestions.

 

[CaptJCool]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

Important Information for Travel to USA | Qantas

American Passport and Visa Information | Virgin Australia

I always find it handy to read the info on the carrier Airlines website

If I book US TRIPS DIRECT with QF from memory they SEND REMINDERS to complete the info.
Previously when booked by Travel Agent, they gave the reminders and followed them up because the airline were not dealing directly with me....

so Orbitz - what was the ability to respond him and advise the customer beforehand?

the abrupt halt at the airport was the first time Virgin Met the customer as contact is between Agent and customer?
And as you can see from the Airlines home-page denial of boarding is for a range of reasons. Passenger Manifestos are going to a series of places so unmatched data would have included the empty ESTA field some 72 hours before flight time so last minute updates in real-time when dealing with say a 460 passenger list isn't exactly built into their system of operation.

could they have done more? yes, sounds like they said if you hurry, you can get this done before boarding closes and could have explained why this was important, and could have said, it must be done by 6.05am to give John a chance to meet that time. So if he went past then he already knew he wouldn't make it....

 

[Jurahn]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

So it's not just me!

No, I do the same thing as well - I take printed copies of everything from flight itineraries to ESTA (if applicable) to hotel, airport transfer and rental car bookings

... and I'm a Pisces ... hard copies of everything - even my Travel Insurance PDS...

I'm Pisces too ...

 

[anat0l]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

And no it is not right to knock someone when they are down. Never. Not on AFF not anywhere. Not sure where that stupid mentality comes from it's wrong. But it has been noted for future reference.

Well in a war or a fight, if someone is down, the art of war tells you to press the advantage, not to let them get up again. Same goes for boxing (until the ref tells you to back off).

I was brought up from childhood with the mentality that those who are wrong deserve no right to tell others to refrain from telling them that they are wrong, no matter what shape or form that criticism, accusation or abuse takes. The idea, I believe, was meant to be that reinforcing to someone that they are wrong will shame or reshape their behaviour enough that they will strive much harder not to be wrong again, because they do not want to relive that shame (criticism, accusations, abuse) through being wrong.

 

[marki]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

Which domestic flights in Australia have onboard wi-Fi with internet connectivity ?

My thoughts were international flights. Not domestic which is not clearly stated earlier. Although there is inflight wifi on some domestic legs giving access to inflight entertainment.

 

[tuapekastar]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

Just time to accept it and move on I think JohnK. I certainly sympathise with your issue...I made what I would call a 'rookie' error only a couple of years ago re a visa. A bit of fancy footwork on the fly may have resolved it for me but I had been 'on the road' a while and was very tired and worn out, and hence decided simply to cancel a couple of (non-refundable) flights and wear my error and chalk it up to experience.

Re your experience, VA may well have been sticking to the rule book, but I cannot see any way you or me or any other 'outsider' would know if they had any or all of the options suggested in this thread available to them to help resolve your situation. I think you have been an unfortunate victim of a series of coinciding events (hire car receipt, overpacked couple in front of you at checkin - by the way totally with you on this one, there should be provision to move such people aside while they repack, and serve others - etc.), but the underlying issue, without which none of the others would have mattered, and which you acknowledge, was your lack of an ESTA, and nothing is going to change all of that now.

By all means seek some redress if you think you are entitled to it - I have my doubts in this case, but in the 'who has screwed the other over the most' race between airlines and passengers the airlines are in front by many circumnavigations of the Earth, so go for it, and good luck with it.

The silver lining is that it was by all accounts a 'mistake' fare, so out-of-pocket losses are a far cry from what they could have been.

 

[anat0l]

Re: BNE-SYD-LAX-BNE VA Y US$266 on Orbitz [gone]

My thoughts were international flights. Not domestic which is not clearly stated earlier. Although there is inflight wifi on some domestic legs giving access to inflight entertainment.

That inflight wifi only grants access to the entertainment system. There is no external internet connective capability at the moment in the Australian domestic network, short of cheating the rules on flight mode and managing to get hooked up on your data connection whilst in the sky.