So... what car do you guys drive when not flying?

[BAM1748]

33kft, rather than indulge in online armchair warrior things, if you are seriously passionate about the debate, send me a PM. Am happy to debate these things with you outside of AFF. One of my roles/work is to work exactly in this specific debate for a major Australian university. I would thus welcome your angle/views. Our angle is to truly measure the environmental cost of EV things, from production, to use, to disposal. I would thus welcome your views as a consumer.

Agree, the real cost is about the life cycle cost.

 

[SFSC]

Any suggestions or pit falls would be appreciated.

Try mapping out trips you usually do for different EVs you may be interested in buying, using A Better Route Planner .

 

[jb747]

Kia headhunted half of Audi’s design team a few years back. Results paying off!

They must have taken the external design team too, ’cos Audi have joined some others in making ugly vehicles. Huge gaping radiators from one maker, and enormous nostrils from another. I’m waiting for the square tyres…

If you're convinced of the boomer vie…….

I don’t know that generic insults to an age group do your argument any favours. Many would stop reading once they hit that word. And having said that, pretty well every EV that I see, in my local area, is driven by a boomer.

I looked pretty seriously when I was last buying a car, but I simply couldn’t make it work. Charging stations have spread a lot since then, though I think a hybrid would probably work better for me than a pure EV.

Victoria has already introduced a 2.5 cent per km tax. Presumably that will both spread and increase.

 

[Buzzard]

Try mapping out trips you usually do for different EVs you may be interested in buying, using A Better Route Planner .

About 10 hours longer than it takes me in my diesel, including over 6 hours charge time!
Guess I won't be trading my Prado any time soon.

 

[Quickstatus]

pro-EV protagonist

Actually, I don't hold a binary position and quite happy that the three sides of the debate have important points to make. The people that suggest that I do are typically ones who do hold a binary position and in return, I typically will be contrarian to their POV.

Range:

The main point of the range issue is that manufacturer quoted range is invariably more than the actual real world range.
The second point of the range issue is that with any vehicle irrespective of the power source, no one ever wants to arrive at destination with 0km range remaining. Most people arrive with some reserve. The question is how much range does the driver want to have in reserve. That question is currently a lot easier to answer with an ICE than an EV.
The third point is that shepherding of the battery occurs with many EV owners. The general view is not to run the battery close to zero or 100%. Generally the recommendation for maximising battery longevity is to ensure the charge is between 20-80% depending on battery technology. For example the LiFePo4 in Chinese made Teslas seem to like 100% charge, but have lower range. So while occasional trips that see charging beyond the 20-80% is unlikely to cause issues, it is a real issue among EV owners (see the various EV forums)

 

[tgh]

Pity that the pro ev lot seem to have taken their pov to more comfortable environments.

 

[SFSC]

About 10 hours longer than it takes me in my diesel, including over 6 hours charge time!
Guess I won't be trading my Prado any time soon.

I wouldn't either for whatever vehicle you have entered into the planner. It wasn't a mobility scooter, was it?

 

[Buzzard]

I wouldn't either for whatever vehicle you have entered into the planner. It wasn't a mobility scooter, was it?

A Toyota Rav 4 selected from the drop down list.

 

[SFSC]

A Toyota Rav 4 selected from the drop down list.

I'm not familiar with the EV Rav 4. Must be in another market. I'll select it and have a play with the planner tomorrow.
I did a quick plan for my specification Kona for a similar trip but a bit shorter distance (Adelaide to Eden 1284 km) with max speed set at 115 km/h and it came up with 16hr30m trip time, 4 charges totalling 2h48m.

 

[SFSC]

A Toyota Rav 4 selected from the drop down list.

Wow. Looked it up on wikipedia . What a shocker, considering what Tesla was building at the time. Not exactly a mobility scooter but.....
I entered a trip with settings for the 35kWh standard charge and 110km/h Adelaide to Eden, NSW

 

[Buzzard]

I'm not familiar with the EV Rav 4. Must be in another market. I'll select it and have a play with the planner tomorrow.
I did a quick plan for my specification Kona for a similar trip but a bit shorter distance (Adelaide to Eden 1284 km) with max speed set at 115 km/h and it came up with 16hr30m trip time, 4 charges totalling 2h48m.

At least that's only 2 or so hours longer than it takes me now.

 

[SFSC]

At least that's only 2 or so hours longer than it takes me now.

Probably would be at least 3½ hours. At my age I need more stops than the car.

 

[pauly7]

They must have taken the external design team too, ’cos Audi have joined some others in making ugly vehicles. Huge gaping radiators from one maker, and enormous nostrils from another. I’m waiting for the square tyres…

I don’t think many agree with you judging by the incredible sales they have been posting. But you do you, each to their own of course. Everyone has difference tastes.

 

[penegal]

And just think how proud you can be sipping your latte telling all your hipster friends that you own and drive a coal-fire powered electric vehicle... with carbon offsets purchased from a millionaires factory investment banking scam...

You will be the beez neez of Brunswick....

 

[Cossie]

I had heard of biodiesel, but not this, could be interesting!

WRC

www.wrc.com

 

[Buzzard]

I had heard of biodiesel, but not this, could be interesting!

WRC

www.wrc.com

The local fish and chip shop owner gets $0.30/litre for used cooking oil.
Apparently it's refined and used in the manufacture of fuel.

 

[TheRealTMA]

The local fish and chip shop owner gets $0.30/litre for used cooking oil.
Apparently it's refined and used in the manufacture of fuel.

So it’s not “flake”y then?

 

[Cruiser Elite]

EV discussion so interesting - in March 1999 I imported the first ever commercial shipment of Electric Bicycles to Australia - for 10 years the views and conversations surrounding Electric Bicycles mirrored the views and conversations here - don’t go far enough - take too long to charge - fast forward 14 years and you now basically cannot buy a petrol powered bicycle from any mainstream outlet.

Like EVs or not - they are coming and the tide will not be turned back - but please keep up the contributions. I just hope I am still here in 15 years time to re-visit this thread

 

[penegal]

I am not sure that I ever saw petrol powered bicycles, but hybrid and full EV are certainly tomorrow’s transport options, rather than yesterday’s.

It was good to see Bill Gates meeting with Albo this week to politely inform him that gas is a good stepping stone towards a lower carbon future. Especially in Australia where societal misinformation and scare mongering about nuclear has the green lobby firmly against the cleanest, most abundant, [and arguably safest], fuel we have available (nuclear power!)… madness!

It is really hard to see how we will generate base load electrical power for the next ~50 years without coal paying a significant role. Gas is a sensible, and politically manageable part of the answer.

Personally I think we are mad not to pursue nuclear, but given our societal groupthink about nuclear, I can’t see any politician having the balls to go down that path in my lifetime.

 

[Quickstatus]

EVs

People just need to realise the EV and for that matter ICE all have pros and cons and understand that all come with a unique set of issues. There are fanbois for both camps and get triggered when others point out the not so positive issues with their type of vehicle.

In the meantime, I'm happy to let the early adopters be the guinea pigs.