Should frequent flyer status be easier or harder to earn?

[CaptJCool]

Remember when Frequent Flyers were because they frequently flew? Now these programs are much more about revenue, of which none needs to be from flying at all. Perhaps they need to revert to a tiered system that rewards for flying, vs different category of rewards for revenue?

Qantas

occasional flyer of planes...

"Do we still fly planes?" says the CFO

"Nah, we did away with that when we went to Points Club" retorts the CEO

 

[oz_mark]

I think the status 'ladder' that many programs have are reasonably set at about the right levels. Reasonably easy to get to the first rung, but only a handful of benefits. Somewhat harder to get to the top, but the benefits are better.

 

[MooTime]

All that indicates is that they've been successful at giving status away for peanuts. They wouldn't have family pooling, recurrent DSC offers, SC earn at Coles, free lounge access with Amex Plat, etc etc if people were busting down the doors for Velocity status.

I think all airlines have been very generous in giving away status for peanuts, extending for less than peanuts. Hardly VA out on it's own. You can get QF lounge access for 12months every 12months for not even stepping on a plane, even peanuts worth more.

No one wants to attain top tier status with an airline then have to consult the depths of a website to work out their benefits on each carrier then beg & fight for those benefits at the start of their trip. That's what suppresses demand for Velocity's program.

no one wants to attain top tier status, hahah yeah your right, nobody at all.

suppress demand of velocity program.........they hit 10Million members 2021 & 11 million members in 2022. some sort of demand.

Nice of you to leave out EconomyX benefit.

 

[jase05]

I’m in the make it harder to earn but offer greater benefits camp

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The supply & demand argument makes sense.

I have no data on the number of HON-Circle members - I've just noticed after doing a lot of flying on Lufthansa/Swiss/Austrian/Brussels Airlines that there are very few people using the special benefits reserved for HON-Circle members. For example, the roped-off section for HON-Circle members in the BRU lounge was empty when I visited. And when priority boarding for HON-Circle/F is called, there generally don't seem to be many people coming forward. Just little things like that. Of course, things could be different at a place like BRU when European parliament is sitting

I do think that Velocity would need to increase the thresholds for earning status if it joined Star Alliance. The upshot is that the status would also be worth more

Lucky over at onemileatatime reckons he has seen estimates of around 5000 HON-circle members: What Is Lufthansa HON Circle Status?

Qualification is high 600k in two years, premium cabins.

 

[levelnine]

I think all airlines have been very generous in giving away status for peanuts, extending for less than peanuts. Hardly VA out on it's own. You can get QF lounge access for 12months every 12months for not even stepping on a plane, even peanuts worth more.

I'm talking generally. Every airline handed out COVID-19 extensions. Entirely irrelevant to this conversation.

no one wants to attain top tier status, hahah yeah your right, nobody at all.

suppress demand of velocity program.........they hit 10Million members 2021 & 11 million members in 2022. some sort of demand.

Nice of you to leave out EconomyX benefit.

How many of those are chasing status? That's what we're talking about here. We're not talking about a mum & dad that redeem their Velocity points for a toaster every 18 months.

I'm a little surprised you're arguing something that is so self-evidently false. Are you seriously claiming there is more demand for top tier status in Velocity than there is in Qantas? Yes Velocity has EconomyX. Qantas has access to first class lounges in Australia and around the world, an actual international alliance with easily accessed and understood benefits, five times as many domestic lounges as Velocity, etc etc etc. Indeed, they have so many top tier members they need to split their domestic lounges into two tiers at most major ports. And this is with tighter status requirements than Velocity — no family pooling, no supermarket status earn, etc.

 

[MooTime]

I'm talking generally. Every airline handed out COVID-19 extensions. Entirely irrelevant to this conversation.

How many of those are chasing status? That's what we're talking about here. We're not talking about a mum & dad that redeem their Velocity points for a toaster every 18 months.

I'm a little surprised you're arguing something that is so self-evidently false. Are you seriously claiming there is more demand for top tier status in Velocity than there is in Qantas? Yes Velocity has EconomyX. Qantas has access to first class lounges in Australia and around the world, an actual international alliance with easily accessed and understood benefits, five times as many domestic lounges as Velocity, etc etc etc. Indeed, they have so many top tier members they need to split their domestic lounges into two tiers at most major ports. And this is with tighter status requirements than Velocity — no family pooling, no supermarket status earn, etc.

No argument.
I'm just responding to your post, your words.
There's most definitely a portion of the 2million new members that are chasing tier status. Your claim is nobody is and somehow demands is being suppressed.

I dare say your claim is evidently false, it's a numbers game, Airlines know it. There's a %% of members that chase tiers, it's absolute fact, hence airlines wanting and handcuffing members. Then some Airlines continually 'enhance' the benefits.

Side note I'm in the mum n dad category and a toaster, not a chance in hell. Generalising not advisable.

I never once stated VA status more in demand than QF, please refrain from insinuating falsehoods.

 

[RooFlyer]

On the other hand, Velocity status is relatively easy to earn but the benefits are limited once you leave Australia (compared to, say, Qantas or Star Alliance status).

I took advantage of VA status match (from QF) and re-qualified Plat after 6 months, domestic only accruals. Never did that with QFF! Never so quick (once I figured out how it worked ) and never with domestic-only flying. So now I go back to QFF and see if I can regain plat. We'll see.

But I look at it this way. For me, VA is ONLY a domestic program. Earn there, benefit there. Even though they have international partners, they never come into my thinking, except for SQ and the ability to transfer Velocity points there (which I did last week to successfully secure an award flight).

 

[levelnine]

No argument.
I'm just responding to your post, your words.
There's most definitely a portion of the 2million new members that are chasing tier status. Your claim is nobody is and somehow demands is being suppressed.

I dare say your claim is evidently false, it's a numbers game, Airlines know it. There's a %% of members that chase tiers, it's absolute fact, hence airlines wanting and handcuffing members. Then some Airlines continually 'enhance' the benefits.

Side note I'm in the mum n dad category and a toaster, not a chance in hell. Generalising not advisable.

I never once stated VA status more in demand than QF, please refrain from insinuating falsehoods.

I'm all for debate, but if you're going to emphasise that you're responding to my post & my words, it is important to read my posts correctly.

I said 'No one wants to attain top tier status with an airline then have to consult the depths of a website to work out their benefits on each carrier then beg & fight for those benefits at the start of their trip.'

Have you ever met someone who spends thousands of dollars on airline tickets and tens, if not hundreds, of hours flying an airline who then enjoys being denied entry to a lounge at the start of their holiday and having to argue with the lounge agent that, if they consult clause 405(c) on page 105 of their entry hand book, they'll see that, in fact, Virgin Australia is a partner airline entitled to lounge access? No, me neither.

And my original post had nothing to do with Qantas. The comparison with Qantas only came from your post: 'so little in terms of benefits, hmm Economy X delivers plenty of leg room, something QF don't offer, row 4 on QF yeah right, been bumped from there at the gate more often than bumps in an Origin match.'

Finally, I wasn't generalising. Mums & dads who redeem their points for toasters are a category of points users. Frequent flyer stores wouldn't offer toasters for points if no one bought them. I didn't say all mums & dads buy toasters. Again, reading correctly is important.

 

[MooTime]

I'm all for debate, but if you're going to emphasise that you're responding to my post & my words, it is important to read my posts correctly.

I said 'No one wants to attain top tier status with an airline then have to consult the depths of a website to work out their benefits on each carrier then beg & fight for those benefits at the start of their trip.'

Have you ever met someone who spends thousands of dollars on airline tickets and tens, if not hundreds, of hours flying an airline who then enjoys being denied entry to a lounge at the start of their holiday and having to argue with the lounge agent that, if they consult clause 405(c) on page 105 of their entry hand book, they'll see that, in fact, Virgin Australia is a partner airline entitled to lounge access? No, me neither.

And my original post had nothing to do with Qantas. The comparison with Qantas only came from your post: 'so little in terms of benefits, hmm Economy X delivers plenty of leg room, something QF don't offer, row 4 on QF yeah right, been bumped from there at the gate more often than bumps in an Origin match.'

Finally, I wasn't generalising. Mums & dads who redeem their points for toasters are a category of points users. Frequent flyer stores wouldn't offer toasters for points if no one bought them. I didn't say all mums & dads buy toasters. Again, reading correctly is important.

I give up, you win, I got better things to do.

 

[R_B]

In general, do you think airlines should make it easier, harder or the same as it is now to earn status?

On one hand, it's nice when status is easy to earn because it's more accessible. On the other hand, when more people have status, the benefits can become diluted, lounges get overcrowded and airlines will inevitably take away benefits because they cost too much to provide to a larger amount of people.

I suspect that most people would like the threshold for earning status to be just below the amount of status credits they personally earn. But when thinking about frequent flyer programs generally - what do you think?

Even those if us on platinum hardly get any upgrades these days as a lot of people are paying for premium/business so apart from getting on first or additional baggage allowance that is all that I can get these days

 

[MEL_Traveller]

No one wants to attain top tier status with an airline then have to consult the depths of a website to work out their benefits on each carrier then beg & fight for those benefits at the start of their trip. That's what suppresses demand for Velocity's program.

Reading comments in another thread prompted me to come back here to your comment.

You say VA’s program is hard to work out in terms of benefits. But how is Qantas different? Top tier but you can’t book Qatar airways, can’t get awards on AA international business or first. You can fly Fiji Airways, but as a ‘connect’ partner you don’t always get the full benefits. You have to negotiate the ins and outs of the alliance with Emirates… you might earn points, but not SCs, and then when flying Qantas you can use some Emirates lounges, but not others. And as for the alliance with KLM/Air France… you’re supposed to get free bags, but no one at KLM or AF seems to even know they have a partnership with qantas!

And not to mention lounge access… some of Qatar’s lounges are reserved for First class pax, not Emerald. Same with BA. And there’s the AA flagship dining exception. And top tier Qantas might get you in to some lounges before a JQ flight, but not others.

Perhaps VA’s program really isn’t that much more or less complex that QF’s?

 

[RooFlyer]

Perhaps VA’s program really isn’t that much more or less complex that QF’s?

I'd agree that it isn't. As a long-time QF Plat, I sorta knew the program benefits, as far as my regular travel patterns were concerned (domestic, USA, QR) but if I went looking for EK, KLM etc ... NFI. As you say - there are the written exceptions to using this or that other 'partner' etc airline and then there is the knowledge gap in overseas lounges etc and in QF's own offshore call centres.

Having moved largely across to VA domestic, I'm in the same position - I know the domestic and major international partner benefits, but NFI when it comes to the other partners etc.

 

[MelbFlyer]

As a lowly Bronze on QFF and Red on VFF, my focus is moreso on being able to find / redeem (minimum) business cabin reward seats, rather than have passive benefits such as priority boarding and lounge access, as business reward seats would include these anyway.

I understand that higher tiered members will have earlier access to reward seats, but as a Bronze I've still been able to find flights on dates that I need - whether via luck (that they're still available) or via perseverance.

I also don't travel much - once a year for an overseas trip and maybe once or twice a year domestically if that.

If I was travelling for work, then maybe I'd have a different view but for me as an office worker whom is working 50% from home and 50% in the office with no air travel required, Gold (even Silver) wouldn't mean that much to me.

I'd say keep the thresholds etc as they are, as they provide no benefit to me, and for the current higher tiered members to enjoy their perks

 

[levelnine]

Perhaps VA’s program really isn’t that much more or less complex that QF’s?

You have inadvertently proven my point.

The problems with Fiji, Emirates & AF/KLM are exactly what I'm talking about. Non-alliance partnerships are always a dog's breakfast where airline staff have no idea what's going on and randomly deny you benefits.

The difference is that Qantas has an alliance that works as intended. An alliance doesn't guarantee you a perfect set of benefits, but you will pretty much always get a lounge, priority bags, faster check-in, extra baggage allowance, etc as an elite member. The lounge might not be the flagship lounge (in the case of QR/BA/AA), but they're not going to boot you into the terminal as you frequently find with VA.

The reward redemptions point is irrelevant. No airline/alliance/partnership provides perfect reward redemption opportunities.

And if you think Qantas SC/pt earn is difficult on Emirates, try earning SC/pt with Virgin's partners.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

You have inadvertently proven my point.

The problems with Fiji, Emirates & AF/KLM are exactly what I'm talking about. Non-alliance partnerships are always a dog's breakfast where airline staff have no idea what's going on and randomly deny you benefits.

The difference is that Qantas has an alliance that works as intended. An alliance doesn't guarantee you a perfect set of benefits, but you will pretty much always get a lounge, priority bags, faster check-in, extra baggage allowance, etc as an elite member. The lounge might not be the flagship lounge (in the case of QR/BA/AA), but they're not going to boot you into the terminal as you frequently find with VA.

The reward redemptions point is irrelevant. No airline/alliance/partnership provides perfect reward redemption opportunities.

And if you think Qantas SC/pt earn is difficult on Emirates, try earning SC/pt with Virgin's partners.

My point is that i don’t think VA’s alliance is any worse than QF’s by the time you have to understand all the partners.

How does the OW alliance work as intended when different airlines have different earn rates? QR and MH get reduced rates, or almost nothing, depending on the route. Have you seen the ‘simpler and fairer’ earn table? Or when airlines block award seats from some partners, but not others? There’s and alliance, but plenty of exceptions to the rules, otherwise there wouldn’t be half the traffic on sites such as AFF.

The VA alliance would seem to also work as intended, but maybe it’s because we’re not as familiar with it as we are with qantas that it seems more complicated?

 

[levelnine]

My point is that i don’t think VA’s alliance is any worse than QF’s by the time you have to understand all the partners.

How does the OW alliance work as intended when different airlines have different earn rates? QR and MH get reduced rates, or almost nothing, depending on the route. Have you seen the ‘simpler and fairer’ earn table? Or when airlines block award seats from some partners, but not others? There’s and alliance, but plenty of exceptions to the rules, otherwise there wouldn’t be half the traffic on sites such as AFF.

The VA alliance would seem to also work as intended, but maybe it’s because we’re not as familiar with it as we are with qantas that it seems more complicated?

Earn rates on partners are not what drives someone to choose a FF program. It is benefits.

You also seem to have no experience with the VA program as an elite if you think it is simply a lack of familiarity with the program.

 

[sqrt()]

...but you will pretty much always get a lounge... The lounge might not be the flagship lounge (in the case of QR/BA/AA)

And with AA you do get access to the Flagship lounge(s) too!

 

[Lynda2475]

I'm sitting in an AA Flagship First Lounge now flying on BA - so can absolutely get access on BA.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Earn rates on partners are not what drives someone to choose a FF program. It is benefits.

You also seem to have no experience with the VA program as an elite if you think it is simply a lack of familiarity with the program.

I’ve looked at VA’s program partners, The earn rate is a easy. SCs are easy. Lounge access is easy (to understand).

Looking at the list of partners priority check in and boarding and bags is pretty common. There is the odd exception, but the same applies for QF’s partners.