Should frequent flyer status be easier or harder to earn?

[MEL_Traveller]

I'm sitting in an AA Flagship First Lounge now flying on BA - so can absolutely get access on BA.

I think levelnine was referring to ‘flagship’ in the generic sense (also referenced by sqrt()) QF Platinum, or OWE won’t get you into the Concorde Room for example, or AA’s Flagship First dining section. Or Qatar’s top offering.

AA’s ‘Flagship’ lounges are more a branding thing.

 

[jase05]

I’ve looked at VA’s program partners, The earn rate is a easy. SCs are easy. Lounge access is easy (to understand).

Looking at the list of partners priority check in and boarding and bags is pretty common. There is the odd exception, but the same applies for QF’s partners.

Yeah, obviously everyone has different pros and cons of each partnership/alliance but as a rule if I fly with VA partners I know I’m going to get a fairly standard SC earn across SQ, QR and EY ex Australia whereas my main gripe with OW is the disgraceful way QF punishes you for daring to fly with alliance partners. The earn on CX, MH, QR etc ex Australia is terrible and that’s even before their pathetic MH earn rate. The good thing is that is a QF issue and them being petty rather than a OW issue and if you switch over to a decent FFP program those problems disappear

 

[levelnine]

Lounge access is easy (to understand).

Tell me you've never been a VA elite without telling me.

I've been VA Platinum since the borders reopened. Have yet to encounter a single trip without at least one published benefit being denied.

Coincidentally, was at dinner with a bunch of frequent flyers last night and VA's program came up. The verdict was universal — not worth the hassle.

If might be just bearable if you live and breathe airline T&Cs, but the frequent flyers I know don't care about such matters. They do, however, appreciate that wherever they see the oneworld emerald oval, they know they have access.

That's why demand for VA's program is lower.

 

[RooFlyer]

I've been VA Platinum since the borders reopened. Have yet to encounter a single trip without at least one published benefit being denied.

Are you talking a single international trip, with partners, or including domestic? If domestic, can you give examples?

My experience is quite different, but I'm talking domestic; for every of my approx 20 domestic flights since Oct last year, every entitlement I've sought to use has been there (including upgrade on Flex fare).

Coincidentally, was at dinner with a bunch of frequent flyers last night and VA's program came up. The verdict was universal — not worth the hassle.

Again, are you talking international?

That's why demand for VA's program is lower.

Lower than QFF? Main reason is probably that QF have a significantly larger share of the market and far more rusted-ons.

They do, however, appreciate that wherever they see the oneworld emerald oval, they know they have access.

I agree OneWorld is more uniformly implemented and easier to understand, but its not as universal as you imply - examples with other airlines having their own lounge rules for F and even J lounges have been given above. And even mistakes occur at places like Qantas-run J and F lounges at LAX because the local agents don't know the rules. I also recall when AA took over (or merged with) USAirways. USAirways lounges became OneWorld lounges but it took about a year for there to be uniformity in their lounge agents recognising QFFers entitlements.

I don't doubt that VA's international partner network is a bit ad-hoc (and if its users say its a shambles, then that too), but . It too will mature.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Tell me you've never been a VA elite without telling me.

I've been VA Platinum since the borders reopened. Have yet to encounter a single trip without at least one published benefit being denied.

Coincidentally, was at dinner with a bunch of frequent flyers last night and VA's program came up. The verdict was universal — not worth the hassle.

If might be just bearable if you live and breathe airline T&Cs, but the frequent flyers I know don't care about such matters. They do, however, appreciate that wherever they see the oneworld emerald oval, they know they have access.

That's why demand for VA's program is lower.

It’s a simple look-up on the VA site. If you plan to fly United, Singapore, Qatar or any of the other partners, a one minute check gives you the benefits. Lounge access, extra baggage, whatever.

And no fine print. OW has to have a separate website to try and explain lounge access and the multiple exceptions. And to explain the intricacies of ‘connect’ partners.

OWR comes with business class check-in, but other benefits vary wildly between airlines… some give free preferred seating, including exit rows. others give preferential seating at a specific time before departure, others don’t give preferred seating at all. Extra baggage allowances may or may not apply.

There are OW frequent flyers who don’t even know that they can get benefits on other OW carriers… there are literally hundreds of posts here on AFF, point hacks, FT where people ask the simplest and most obvious questions. Which shows the OW program really can’t be ‘that simple’. Looking at QF only… how many people have booked emirates ‘thinking’ they’re gonna get SCs, but didn’t. How many have flown MH ‘thinking’ they’re going to get a swag of SCs, but didn’t.

 

[Mattg]

It’s a simple look-up on the VA site. If you plan to fly United, Singapore, Qatar or any of the other partners, a one minute check gives you the benefits. Lounge access, extra baggage, whatever.

And no fine print. OW has to have a separate website to try and explain lounge access and the multiple exceptions. And to explain the intricacies of ‘connect’ partners.

You can easily check on the Velocity website whether lounge access is included (as a general rule), but it's not quite that simple. You only get access to certain lounges at different ports, and in some cases only in conjunction with an international ticket, etc.

Would you care to check the Velocity website and tell me which lounges I could use as a Velocity Platinum member if I depart from ADL or SYD on QR?

Also, which lounges could I use flying BNE-SFO or SFO-EWR on United? Or LHR-DEL on VS?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

You can easily check on the Velocity website whether lounge access is included (as a general rule), but it's not quite that simple. You only get access to certain lounges at different ports, and in some cases only in conjunction with an international ticket, etc.

Would you care to check the Velocity website and tell me which lounges I could use as a Velocity Platinum member if I depart from ADL or SYD on QR?

Also, which lounges could I use flying BNE-SFO or SFO-EWR on United? Or LHR-DEL on VS?

errr.. ok, there’s some tricky ones in there!

QR they give you a lounge invite if eligible?
London it’s the aspire lounge.
BNE, no longe AKAIK? But if you were leaving from SYD or MEL you’d have the SQ lounge.
SFO gets you the United lounge as it’s part of an international ticket.

But that’s why anyone should be doing a bit of research if they’re not sure. If you have gold or platinum on VA it’s quick to get thought to a person.

But OW has its quirks too… was it the BA lounge in PHL that because a QR only lounge between certain hours of the day, and OW status wouldn’t get you in unless on QR?

 

[Mattg]

errr.. ok, there’s some tricky ones in there!

QR they give you a lounge invite if eligible?

I believe that's correct, but it's impossible to work out which (if any) lounges you have access to from the Velocity website. Which kind of proves that it's not "a simple look-up on the VA site".

London it’s the aspire lounge.

Yep. Used to be the Clubhouse, but this changed recently which I'm sure will catch a few people off-guard.

BNE, no longe AKAIK? But if you were leaving from SYD or MEL you’d have the SQ lounge.

Yep. And the lack of a lounge in BNE is mentioned in the fine print.

SFO gets you the United lounge as it’s part of an international ticket.

But not if you're just flying SFO-EWR. If you had *G status though, you would have access. As you would (to the Admirals Club) if flying AA SFO-JFK and had Qantas status. How confusing.

But that’s why anyone should be doing a bit of research if they’re not sure. If you have gold or platinum on VA it’s quick to get thought to a person.

So you have to call Velocity to find out what benefits apply? Not exactly simple then

But OW has its quirks too… was it the BA lounge in PHL that because a QR only lounge between certain hours of the day, and OW status wouldn’t get you in unless on QR?

Yes, this is true.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I believe that's correct, but it's impossible to work out which (if any) lounges you have access to from the Velocity website. Which kind of proves that it's not "a simple look-up on the VA site".



Yep. Used to be the Clubhouse, but this changed recently which I'm sure will catch a few people off-guard.



Yep. And the lack of a lounge in BNE is mentioned in the fine print.



But not if you're just flying SFO-EWR. If you had *G status though, you would have access. As you would (to the Admirals Club) if flying AA SFO-JFK and had Qantas status. How confusing.



So you have to call Velocity to find out what benefits apply? Not exactly simple then



Yes, this is true.

You did ask some good questions! and perhaps the exceptions rather than the rule. OW and QF have the similar exceptions.

Which lounge do you have flying singapore airlines or united out of MEL or SYD? Which lounge do you have access to in SIN?Do you have a lounge at AUH before your EY flight? All much easier.

The issue of calling was only if someone didn’t want to spend time reading the rules. And getting through to VA is pretty easy, no 1 hour queues!

 

[levelnine]

Are you talking a single international trip, with partners, or including domestic? If domestic, can you give examples?

International trips. Because that's when being part of an alliance matters.

BNE, no longe AKAIK? But if you were leaving from SYD or MEL you’d have the SQ lounge.

This is exactly what I mean. With VA, we're talking about inconsistent benefits before you even leave Australia on an international trip. You don't even have to go to some obscure outstation before you're confronted with the patchwork that is VA's partnership program.

Anyway, the point I was making was a very simple one. VA have to set their status thresholds lower than QF because they offer a less appealing product to the vast majority of frequent flyers. That's not to say it doesn't have its bright spots for a savvy person (J award redemptions to Europe are a particularly good one), but you need to be in the weeds of a program to realise that, which most people (even frequent flyers) are not.

 

[MooTime]

International trips. Because that's when being part of an alliance matters.

This is exactly what I mean. With VA, we're talking about inconsistent benefits before you even leave Australia on an international trip. You don't even have to go to some obscure outstation before you're confronted with the patchwork that is VA's partnership program.

Anyway, the point I was making was a very simple one. VA have to set their status thresholds lower than QF because they offer a less appealing product to the vast majority of frequent flyers. That's not to say it doesn't have its bright spots for a savvy person (J award redemptions to Europe are a particularly good one), but you need to be in the weeds of a program to realise that, which most people (even frequent flyers) are not.

Plenty of weeds in QF program, that's for sure also in OW, you can believe only VA has weeds, that's your prerogative.

'obscure outstation' made me laugh that comment, your typical exaggeration of everything non QF.... Every airline has their inconsistencies, believe it or not.

Some are just QF fanboi's.

 

[RooFlyer]

International trips. Because that's when being part of an alliance matters.

OK. In which case I'd agree - its not really worth pursuing VA FF benefits with international partners unless, of course, you have a specific journey where they should apply. I regard (and use) Velocity purely as a domestic program; the only time I use it for overseas travel is to convert Velocity points to SQ KrisFlyer miles and then book directly with SQ.

However, as others are pointing out, alliance relationships and exercising of benefits have a few fleas as well and its probably even more annoying when problems arise within an alliance.

With VA, we're talking about inconsistent benefits before you even leave Australia on an international trip.

... like at Adelaide airport; if you are a QFF Plat, flying on its OneWorld partner QR, (or a J pax), the QP at ADL will refuse you entry.

 

[Cliffy65]

More difficult.

With the Rona assistance it took less than 2 months to retain P1 this year. There’s little to no further incentive to book 100% of flights with one airline for anyone that is truly a frequent flyer.