Screaming Kids - Seating Allocations

[NM]

have a trip to the UK in a few months and we're taking a 15mth old with us.

she's done a few MEL-SYD and MELB-AKL trips, but was only very young so was on placed the cough when she screemed which solved the problem.

What do you do for 24 hours with a 15mth old walker? she plays quite happily on her own at home, but I don't fancy reading the same few stories 100's of times from Oz to UK.

The 15-18 month age bracket is one of the most difficult for travelling long haul. While there are plenty of things they can enjoy, their attention span is very short for any one of those things. So expect to be changing activities very regularly. Plan and pack lots of things.

Very young kids like repetition. They can happily read the same book or watch the same DVD hundreds of times. In fact, when it comes to watching a DVD, the more they have watched it before the more likely they are to sit and watch again for a longer time. However, 15 months is a little young to expect a child to be interested in more than movement and music on a DVD. Its not until they are around 2.5-3 that they will start to follow a basic story line.

So you could try having the child watch a suitable DVD at home to get used to it and build an affiliation with it. For very young kids try something like Hi 5. But showing the child the DVD on the flight requires having a DVD player available to use. Perhaps worth investing in a small portable player, but keep in mind that tyhe child will need to be wearing headphones, so practice with them before the flight. Make wearing the headphones and sitting on your lap to watch the DVD all part of the routine well before you travel.

And of course if the child will not have their own seat, then you need to plan to do any activities while sitting on your lap.

We have also found young kids like toys like Magna-Doodle. They come in many different sizes and small size is great for travel. Be prepared to do lots of drawing of different pictures, and again start will before travel as young kids love to see the same pictures drawn over and over and get a great deal of pleasure when they recognise something.

Talk to your GP about options to helping the child to sleep at the right times. We found Phenergan worked ok for our kids. However, test whatever the GP recommends before you go as some things can have the opposite affect on some kids. And note that Phergan is an antihistamine, so can also have the affect of drying nasal passages etc so may need to provide increased liquids (water) as the combination of medication and low cabin humidity take their toll.

At 15 months, our kids all required two day sleeps. Sleep is a good way to pass the time of a long flight. Plan ahead to try to have the child sleep on the plane and awake at the airport. The airport provides an opportunity to run around and burn off some energy. So try to plan for that during the transit stop in Asia. No point in having the child asleep in your arms while at the transit point and then awake and wanting to run around on the plane as soon as you take off again. If the child is at walking age, then have them walk as much as possible at the transit airport, even if it means you move very slowly through the airport.

We have also found that routine is good for indicating to the child that its time for sleep. Simple things like having a sleep toy (a soft cuddly anything) that is only used when going to sleep. Our youngest (who is now 3) still has a soft cloth doggy that used to have a dummy attached via a small plastic chain. she is past the dummy requirement, but still has her "bedtime doggy" that stays with her bed. So if we want her to sleep in the car on a long trip we will take it with us and give it to her at the time we want her to sleep. Obviously this takes some planning before the flight to introduce the routine.

Other routine things for indicating sleep time can include changing into pyjamas, a drink of milk, brushing teeth (if the child has any) and reading a special sleep-time story book. The more entrenched the routing can be before the flight, the better it will work.

Also, what about food... she needs milk, but we can't carry that on. While she eats most of what we eat, there are also many things she won't eat.

Do QF have normal milk on board for babies?

Yes, they do have regular cows milk as this is also used for tea/coffee. You can take liquids through security that are required for baby feeding. So check the regulations of what you can and can't take through for each country you will be visiting (as there are some variations).

Another option may be to try your child with some form of powered milk or formula before travelling. Its much easier to transport and just needs to add water and warm (if the child likes it warmed). The flight attendants can provide the water and warm it up if required. Again routing is good. Get the child used to the different taste of powered milk or formula well before travelling, and use the same cup/bottle for the milk for a few weeks before you leave. That way the child is used to the routine and will gain comfort from the routine and this will help them cope with all the other changes going on around them.

If there are certain things the child likes to eat then take them with you. Just be aware of any quarantine restrictions for the countries being visited. There are no restrictions on taking food onto the plane, so take plenty of what they like and be prepared to dump any leftovers at the airport upon arrival if necessary.

Carry plenty of spare nappies and wipes and a few changes of clothes. Note that it can get cold on the aircraft, so take suitable clothes on board. Make the most of ground facilities to change the child before boarding the aircraft. Aircraft toilets are cramped when trying to change a nappy, and you may be confined to your seats due to turbulence for extended periods and that may not be pleasant if the nappy is in need to replacement. So change it regularly just to be sure. They are light (when unused ) and don't take up much space.

But most importantly, post here your flight details so we can avoid those flights :mrgreen: .

 

[NM]

Sennheiser PXC 150 Noise Reduction Headphones $200

Problem solved.

No active noise cancelling/reduction headphones are effective against the dynamic characteristics of speech or crying. They are only effective against constant low-frequency sounds such as cabin air-conditioning and engines. Sennheiser claim up to 24dB of isolation, which is a combination of passive isolation due to the closed over-the-ear design and the active reduction of NoiseGard technology. Their claim for NoiseGard is less than 14dB at 1000hz, so the passive isolation is up to 10dB, which really is not very much.

The only way to effectively reduce the dynamics of a crying baby is to use ear plugs or noise isolating in-ear phones like the Shure or Etymotic range. Etymotics claim 34-36dB full-sprectrum noise isolation from their ER-6 model, which will certainly relieve the problem a lot more effectively than any over-the-ear "noise cancelling" headphones. Shure claim to block out over 90% of ambient noise (and in my experience with my E3s, that is pretty accurate).

 

[acampbel]

One other tool that could make a long-haul trip with a toddler more bearable ....... their normal car seat.

When we first took the kids for a big trip they were 4 and 2. We took the master 4's booster cushion with us but had to check it in the hold, so he made do with the standard economy seat. Missy 2 was still in a full child-restraint and since it had the AS sticker on it we were allowed to use it on board.

Because she was so used to being securely strapped in for car travel it was no problem to point out the seatbelt sign and tell her that the same rules applied on the plane.

Sure, we also had lots of activities and an MP3 player with some favourite talking books, but being at a raised height gave her a good view of the screen in front and the rest of the cabin. She also had no problems dropping off to sleep without having to lie across our laps. I can only remember her getting a bit testy for the last couple of hours into Heathrow, but all in all it went really well and we didn't resort to any drugs.

The only downside to the car seat was that her tray-table could not be used and mealtimes were a bit of a juggle. Fortunately they feed kids first and with daddy's "help" we usually got to eat our meals whilst they were still warm.

The other advantage of taking the car seat was being able to use it in the hire car (obviously). The slight inconvenience of lugging it back and forth from the conveyor belt saved us some exorbitant hiring charges.


Cheers,


Andrew

.

 

[NM]

One other tool that could make a long-haul trip with a toddler more bearable ....... their normal car seat.

Good advice, but note the following:

• Must have a paid seat for the infant. With the child being 15 months of age it quite likely they are expecting to travel as a lap infant and not in its own paid seat.
• Must contact the airline prior to travel so they know to expect the child restraint and ensure the right staff are available to fir it in the aircraft. Only certain seats are equipped with the right restraint anchor points and so they need to be allocated to the right seats before check-in begins.
• Many airlines only accept seats with standards approval stickers from their own country, so if using airlines other than Qantas for the trip, you need to ensure they will accept a child restraint with an AS (Australian Standards) sticker. Qantas' published policy is that it must be an approved seat displaying an AS or NZS sticker (Australian or NZ Standards approved) which means they could refuse the use of a USA or UK or any other countries approved seats.

So be sure to check with all the airlines before arriving at the airport with a child restraint for use on board.

 

[serfty]

... Do QF have normal milk on board for babies?

Qantas have some good information on their web site:

• Flying with Us - Before You Travel - Children & Infants - Travel Information

Meals

Special child, toddler and baby meals are available. These must be requested at the time of reservation, otherwise standard meals will be supplied. Let us know your child's age when ordering. If you are travelling with a child or infant aged between 0 and 23 months who has food allergies or special dietary requirements, you must provide their meals.

A wide selection of soft drinks and fruit juices is available for children throughout the flight. Make sure your children drink regularly on longer flights to counteract the dry air on board.

All Qantas aircraft carry a limited quantity, for emergency use, of top brand baby food, milk, baby bottles and brushes, cereals and rusks. If your baby prefers a particular brand, it's a good idea to carry enough for the flight. We cannot guarantee that we will have your brand onboard. Also note that Qantas does not provide infant formula.

In the Air

During take off and landing, bassinets must be closed and you must nurse your baby.

Your baby or young child may cry on take off and landing due to the brief 'popping' in their ears as cabin pressure adjusts to altitude. This is perfectly normal. By giving your baby a bottle or breastfeeding at this time, you will help to relieve the 'popping' sensation. For older children and for yourself, the 'popping' can be simply alleviated by chewing on a toffee or sweet.

A limited supply of nappies and baby wipes are available onboard international services, in case of emergency. On domestic services, nappies are available, however, as these are limited, we recommend bringing a supply of your own.

Cabin crew will prepare, heat and wash bottles or pacifiers (dummies) on request. There are no private areas onboard the aircraft to breastfeed babies but you are welcome to feed your baby in your seat.

You'll find baby changing tables in selected washrooms on the aircraft. Use these facilities rather than change your baby at your seat. This is for your own comfort and that of fellow passengers. Washrooms are equipped with special disposal chutes for nappies. Nappies must not be disposed of in the aircraft toilets.

On long flights when there is time to sleep, change your small children into their pyjamas and settle them in their seat or on your lap. The more normal their routine, the more likely they are to sleep. It is often helpful to bring along a favourite bedtime toy for them to cuddle.

On the whole, children sleep very comfortably onboard aircraft. For safety reasons, children are not permitted to sleep on the floor of the aircraft. Please also make sure that your child does not have any limbs protruding into the aisle while they sleep . This can be dangerous both for the child and for unwary passengers.

 

[QF WP]

millesm, have to agree with NM and serfty. Last week on our BNE/SYD/AKL...WLG/AKL/BNE we took NAN formula (in a plastic bottle with 3 sections) on board (along with various orther baby items) and no troubles at all with security or Customs. We also took on board Rafferty's Garden products and again no issues with Customs or Security.

QF & LA both had full-cream milk (still a requirement for our 11 month old) as a back-up.

 

[Tooner]

The only thing I would add to NM's comprehensive list is a one of those packets of thin playdough (little snakes of playdough) - easy to create little creatures on the tray table. Also don't forget the QF AVOD has lots of episodes of the Wiggles etc, which can be watched many times. Remember, however annoying it may be for a child to watch something over and over again, that is how they assimilate what they see, check their understanding etc.

I would also agree with NM that 15 mths is a tough age to fly long haul. Our 2 oldest have flown long-haul when 9 mths (both were still sleeping lots at that stage and just fitted into the bassinet) and 1 when 3, so happy to watch movies. Maybe you should close your eyes and stump up the extra 65% of the fare?

We are considering another flight with 6 yr, 3 yr and 11 mth old in December - should be interesting

 

[straitman]

We are considering another flight with 6 yr, 3 yr and 11 mth old in December - should be interesting

You have such a way with words :!:

Just let us know which flights to avoid, just in case.

 

[Tooner]

Just let us know which flights to avoid, just in case.

I can still remember the reaction from row 48 on our last family flight to London when we stopped at row 47 with 1 3yr old, and 2 9 month olds (1 a little Tooner, the other my sisters):shock:. They were deeply unimpressed, but in the end, all the kids were pretty well behaved.

 

[Commuter]

You'll find baby changing tables in selected washrooms on the aircraft. Use these facilities rather than change your baby at your seat. This is for your own comfort and that of fellow passengers. Washrooms are equipped with special disposal chutes for nappies. Nappies must not be disposed of in the aircraft toilets.

Someone on a recent flight changed her baby in the seat (about 1.5 metres from me), and then proceeded to try to hand the dirty nappy to a cabin crew member doing meal service.

This behaviour shocked me because it completely lacked common sense or courtesy. For a start it was so inconsiderate of her to change her baby in the seat during meal service (it really smelled bad - not the meal ) and to hand cabin crew doing meal service a dirty nappy was downright rude. The cabin crew rightly refused to take it for hygiene reason as she was doing a meal service.

Thank goodness not all parents are like her.

 

[drron]

I can certainly confirm the seating preferences for children by QF and DJ.Before gaining status with AA I was routinely assigned last row by QF.I would find myself surrounded by unaccompanied kids.So much for QP seating preferences.
The same happens on DJ when I travel without Mrsdrron.On DJ I dont mind as I can be first off down the rear stairs.Yesterday in same row as mother and 11week old who smiled the whole way unlike the toddlers of row 23.Also had an empty middle seat-the only empty seat on the plane.FA said it was policy to try and have empty seat next to lap child.I then explained how I am usually seated on QF and DJ and asked if I was on some kind of list.The reply was it must be a pretty bad sort of list!

 

[Skoogle]

FA said it was policy to try and have empty seat next to lap child.

That is interesting. I wonder who has right of usage over said empty seat.

Does the parent use the 'free' seat for the child or should it go unused for the benefit of the non-parent?

If it is 'policy' then as a non-parent, I would expect the seat to remain free.

 

[acampbel]

That is interesting. I wonder who has right of usage over said empty seat.

Does the parent use the 'free' seat for the child or should it go unused for the benefit of the non-parent?

If it is 'policy' then as a non-parent, I would expect the seat to remain free.

For what purpose?

Sorry - that was a rhetorical question .... to which the answer is "Sheer coughry"


Cheers,

Andrew

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[Baysider]

Our children would each have taken 10 flights of over 5 hours duration before the age of 2. Neither ever cried or made a nuisance of themselves on a flight. Often people would be taken aback when we disembarked and say "wow, I didn't even notice you had a baby with you!"

The best advice was that given by Lindsay Wilson earlier in this thread:

From her first flight (at 10 weeks of age) to last weeks flights (BNE/SYD/AKL...WLG/AKL/BNE), we have always used the time tested use of sustenance (breast feeding initially but for last weeks flights, bottle of formula or dummy) to help mini-LW to equalise her ear pressure upon take-off and landing (given she has no idea yet how to do it for herself).

Youngsters have much more sensitive ears to minor pressure variations and we are forever amazed at how many parents seem oblivious to this basic fact. Keep their ears comfortable and you have a happy child. Like LW, ours were breastfed during take-off and landing while still young enough, then later onto the bottle, and eventually onto sucking a lollipop or similar. I have seen idiotic parents refuse a lollipop offered by crew members during landing, boldly stating "she's just throwing a tantrum".

 

[NM]

I just sat in the row in front of a family travelling with a 2yo and almost 4yo. The kids were great until they had ear problems on decent. Of course it doesn't help that the arrival was at a time that they would normally be sound asleep in their beds (9:30pm home time), so that made it very difficult for the parents to deal with the situation. Not much anyone can do in that case.

 

[Therma]

Oh man

I am getting less and less patient with screaming babies, and as a former paediatric nurse, this says a lot. I have just completed 8 domestic flights inside India, (in 4 days) and also a flight to MNL. SQ, in its infinite wisdom keeps on putting me just behind the bulkhead seats, i.e. behind screaching babies. I have a 2 year old of my own, but she was very civilised on our return flight to Aus in January (wife and daughter went in business and I was, unusually for SQ upgraded). When you do 3 flights in a day the patience and compassion evaporates. Especially on Indian domestic flights, where they do not allow me to use my "baby-be-gone" saviour, noise cancelling headset, and where grog is not served nor available for purchase. I have since obtained a pair of earplugs. :evil:

 

[GDSman]

I feel I have a foot in both camps - on the one a high-flying, plat suit, on the other a father of a 3-yr old. On a flight to DPS not too long ago my boy woke up and started screaming. Don't know why and try everything though we did - couldn't stop him........for 2 hrs. If I could have landed the plane immediately I would have. I and my wife have never been so embarrassed and drained...but after trying everything we could think of he still screamed.
While some parents are clearly not concerned by others I think it's only fair to remind everyone here that sometimes children will be hideous and there's only so much one can do about it. If anyone believes differently pls PM me and I will happily take voluneteers for babysitting....

 

[Tooner]

While some parents are clearly not concerned by others I think it's only fair to remind everyone here that sometimes children will be hideous and there's only so much one can do about it. If anyone believes differently pls PM me and I will happily take voluneteers for babysitting....

I think the issue is too narrowly focussed, as an earlier post noted - some adults act worse than a 3 yr old (especially where I work:shock: ) on aircraft. They have no excuse though!

 

[munitalP]

...A bigger problem for me is that all our flights beyond Hong Kong are BA metal or codeshares, and they hire the grumpiest dragons to defend their lounges against pesky infants and children.
Andrew

And so they should I say... Rules are not made to be broken... We all drive within the speedlimit, we don't steal, we don't rob banks or murder (these analogies suck I know) so why should the rules of the QC be openly broken?

If the rule is one guest and mum dad and 2 kids are flying - go buy another QC membership - I can't believe that people think its a funny thing to break the rules so openly...

Bring on the grumpy dragons for the QC's in Australia I say!

 

[NYCguy]

If the rule is one guest and mum dad and 2 kids are flying - go buy another QC membership - I can't believe that people think its a funny thing to break the rules so openly...

Bring on the grumpy dragons for the QC's in Australia I say!

Finally... Thank you!