Scathing Qantas Article

[UP4014]

Maybe it depends on the destination. Many more flights Melbourne Sydney than to Adelaide.

As far as status recognition goes, usually had a free upgrade on Virgin. Qantas, never in domestic.

I've never had any of the issues with QF you have had, I've been offered earlier flights even when booked on red-e-deals. Have also been upgraded.

I guess some passengers are suited to some airlines, you're obviously better off with Virgin.

matt

 

[Anna]

I spoke to a staff member at the business lounge in Canberra who told me that unless there was irrops due to weather or something he can't physically change my flight to another one even if he WANTED to . The system won't allow it.

Sounds to me like someone working in the business lounge in Canberra needs more training on how to use the system. I also love "even if he wanted to" - isn't it enough reason to "want to" that the paying customer has asked??

There was someone complaining on the QF FB page not that long ago that they had booked a fully flexible fare and some QF staffer at CBR said they could not change their flight even though there were seats still spare. Perhaps they had the bad luck to speak to this person in the J lounge.

FWIW I have had mixed success in getting earlier flights on QF to ADL. Sometimes yes, sometimes no availability, sometimes I can do an ODU to an earlier flight but otherwise no.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

well he probably didn't say that , what I meant was that even if he tried, it wont allow it.

 

[Pushka]

I've never had any of the issues with QF you have had, I've been offered earlier flights even when booked on red-e-deals. Have also been upgraded.

I guess some passengers are suited to some airlines, you're obviously better off with Virgin.

matt

Uncalled for. As has been noted, and if you had read further, two other people have had exactly the same issue. Make that three people.

Are you suggesting that issues such as this shouldn't be raised and addressed? And as soon as someone does, it can be expected that someone will come in and post that you belong elsewhere. What are they called? Fanbois?

 

[travelislife]

Can you guys create a new topic regarding the fly ahead benefits of Qantas and Virgin and discuss there. This is not the thread for it as it doesn't even rate a mention in the article.

 

[Anna]

well he probably didn't say that , what I meant was that even if he tried, it wont allow it.

One thing I've sometimes found with QF staff, both telephone and ground staff, is that when I want to change something they automatically assume that I want to change it for free and that's when they say things like "it won't allow it", "computer says no", etc. But when I make it clear that I realise there might be an increased charge, suddenly the computer says yes and I have to pay $3.50 or some similar small amount to make the change.

And if the computer still says no, my usual tactic is to find someone else to ask .

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Qantas bashing in main-stream media seems to be a national sport. Even positive articles are followed by hundreds of misspelt, uniformed morons insulting Alan Joyce and demanding QF provide an A-class product and service at a bargain basement price. Half the readers say they've already made the switch to VA, CX, AA, EK or SQ, the other half just enjoy complaining about the situation without doing anything about it. I particularly enjoy those who 'fly all the time' yet spell Qantas with a 'u'. Interestingly 'quantas.com.au' automatically redirects to qantas.com.au - I guess they knew a certain portion of their customers can't spell.

Of course FF programs are poor value if you don't know how to use them properly. Buying a house can be expensive if you don't know what you're doing either. If you are paying $200+ in annual fees each year just to put $500 a month through your card to redeem for a $50 petrol voucher then of course it's poor value. On the other hand we know how to absolutely max the hell out of our cards, offers and programs so receive incredible value.

it really doesn't matter how people spell qantas... if they include a 'u' then there is no harm done to anyone. the party they are talking about is identified and it makes little difference.

yes we are demanding qantas provide an A-class product... we recognize cost cutting and the desire for low fares, but the fundamental component is that customer service is 'free'. it costs no more for qantas crew to be courteous and efficient as for them to be lazy, surly and unpleasant. the on-board catering costs the same whether it is made 'with love' or whether it is slopped up as some unrecognisable 'stew'.

qantas bashing? well yes. they bang on and on about unfair competition, too high costs you name it... yet they happily spend plenty of $$ on celebrity endorsements and some pretty bad safety demos. they'll pay fines for price fixing, but complain about labour costs. and they ignore the one very real thing they can actually manage... consistency of product. I've had several flights made thoroughly unenjoyable by bad crew. in fact have one of those flights at the end of your perfect holiday and it can temporarily ruin the whole time you had away. it's simply not good enough. try the call centre on a non-elite line and you'll more often than not be treated like a complete idiot who cannot possibly know what they're talking about. company representations and twitter posts that are more concerned with getting out a 'we're glad you enjoyed the experience' at every opportunity but ignore pressing issues (such as ticketing ex Thailand, or the website being unable to handle certain bookings)

I've had some fantastic flights in the usa where they serve nothing more than a beverage. I've never had a 'bad flight' in the usa. but I have on qantas.

 

[casanovawa]

I would tend to think of QFF as more of a relationship porgram these days anyway.... No consumers don't give loyalty to businesses anything like they use to... If you scale the heights of status then yes there can be a component of loyalty, which is also described as golden handcuffs, so from one perspective your being loyal, another perspective is that your locked in or captured because of the benefits you have at QF (or whatever FF program) and will lose if you stray...

Its also not really a frequent flyer program because i would bet most of those 7M or 9M members don't do anything like frequent flying, i certainly don't!!! Most would gain their points through shopping or credit card signups or insurance or phone bills or any number of ways, and might redeem the odd flight each year or two...

As a relationship program it gives Qantas an ability to market its services and products to different groups (pollies with CL membership, frequent flyers with status benefits, Joe Bloggs through discount deals and rewards and email marketing), and also earn money through its association with many companies that have nothing to do with flying, but can gain that link through a type of exchange currency being the QFF points... It is completely different these days to the much narrower original program that could be summed up by loyalty and frequent flying...

 

[Alanslegal]

A frequent flyer program is a program that rewards loyalty - and I think it adds value to your travel experience.

So I spend $100K on my credit card, earn 100K frequent flyer points, and redeem for $600 worth of Myer Gift Cards. Zero loyalty to QF FF there.

Fly enough, earn status, that status can then reward those who are loyal.

 

[JohnK]

Qantas Frequent Flyer is not just a frequent flyer scheme but a loyalty scheme as well. Flights, hotels, car hire, credit cards etc. I wish fuel surcharges were included in the base airfare and not separate but that is not a deal breaker.

In my opinion Qantas shows the most professionalism of the 4 airlines operating in Australia and to me that is the most important thing.

You've been lucky. In all my years as a WP I've never once been able to do it. I've been asked if i'd like to move for 'operational reasons' (ie, flow forward), but unless you're on a flexi fare, QF are not very flexible themselves on moving you unless it suits them. I've had a 100% hit rate at using VA's 'fly forward' benefit, and it's been brilliant.

Even I have had reasonable success rate at changing flights on cheap red e-deals with Qantas. I do not ask that often though.

Yes Virgin has offered fly ahead to me a few times and they have even put me on earlier flights with checked baggage (Qantas strictly does not allow this unless there is no other alternative) but there are more important to things to consider when choosing an airline.

And Virgin is so far behind Qantas it will be difficult to make up ground. No sooner does Virgin start promising the earth to get customers they then spoil everything with some amateurish blunder.

 

[Zulu0929]

A bit late in responding to the article because I was flying, with Qantas. I had not been a fan of QF for some time for a variety of reasons but this last flight, which I managed to utilise points for an upgrade, was good. The crew were clearly making an effort and very friendly although the food was a little ordinary. My recent experience at the QF lounge in Singapore was really quite special. I did not know it had just reopened (the day before), I was given the royal treatment and began to wonder if they thought I was someone else or I was in the wrong place.

I am in the process of organising a ticket out of London to Australia via Dubai and you will not be surprised to learn that by booking a ticket with a QF flight number to travel here and return costs over GBP 400.00 more than booking the same flight with EK. Moreover, the whole trip with a QF flight number is on EK aircraft.

 

[Nizar]

From the article. Does anyone agree with this ? Is it even true ? I thought EK "enhanced" their redemption rates largely matching them to QFs' ?

"We learnt last week there was a major disconnect between Qantas and its new partner Emirates in one crucial area: the amount it was charging, compared with the Australian airline, for frequent flyer redemptions, with the result that there is a surge in the number of Qantas passengers redeeming their frequent flyer benefits on Emirates services."

 

[BD1959]

From the article. Does anyone agree with this ? Is it even true ? I thought EK "enhanced" their redemption rates largely matching them to QFs' ?

"We learnt last week there was a major disconnect between Qantas and its new partner Emirates in one crucial area: the amount it was charging, compared with the Australian airline, for frequent flyer redemptions, with the result that there is a surge in the number of Qantas passengers redeeming their frequent flyer benefits on Emirates services."

I don't believe that it is referencing the points used for redemptions, but the taxes/fuel fines/add-ons.

I found the article interesting, no so much from what it said, more from what it hinted at.

QF obviously moving away from OW as the alliance brings in more lower-cost based airlines - which would explain the "cooling" of the relationship between QF and MH once QF realised it wasn't going to get what it wanted from RedQ - and the whole dynamic changes from the ow-founders: legacy, high-cost airlines (with similar cost/earn/redemption rates) toward more complicated models with these newer entrants.

QF now going through additional pain as it partners with an airline (EK) which is also lower-cost - whatever happened to "due diligence"?

Makes me wonder where QF will be in respect to OW in 3 years time.

Regards,

BD

 

[Berlin]

Yawn, what a boring and outright stupid article- as per usual aimed at those idiots who fly on Jetstar twice a year and somehow expect to get a free flight out of that

I for my part have been pretty happy with Qantas lately. Four upgrades from J to F in only two months, several lovely visits to the Flounge with equally lovely massage treatments in the spa and several mostly pleasant JASA flights throughout Australia for nothing more than a bit in taxes and surcharges- I cannot complain! And, may I add, Qantas cannot either as I certainly spend enough on them both myself and through funneling business travel towards them. A pretty fair give and take relationship in my eyes!

 

[Red Roo]

I for my part have been pretty happy with Qantas lately. Four upgrades from J to F in only two months, several lovely visits to the Flounge with equally lovely massage treatments in the spa and several mostly pleasant JASA flights throughout Australia for nothing more than a bit in taxes and surcharges- I cannot complain! And, may I add, Qantas cannot either as I certainly spend enough on them both myself and through funneling business travel towards them. A pretty fair give and take relationship in my eyes!

Thank you for your support and ongoing loyalty. It's certainly appreciated and never taken for granted.

 

[SteveJohnson]

Clive Dorman seems to be very anti-frequent flyer, by which I mean the schemes not the people, and also always seems ready to have a whinge on Qantas in order to get lots of readers commenting and agreeing with him and telling their own stories. A shame to see SMH encouraging this troll-baiting.

Ben Sandilands is another aviation writer who takes shots at Qantas every chance he can get and funny enough he is also very critical of frequent flyer schemes.

It's as if they cannot grasp the concept that these schemes can be very good for some people and that they are of course in place to benefit airlines in the end!

 

[GoldCanyon340]

Crikey also likes to take a shot over the bows every now and then. While their arguments have some merit in isolated examples I really do not think they have the long term view in mind at all. We are talking about the same publications who would raise Hell if Qantas went under, describing how Australia has sunk to the level of a Third World country because we cannot sustain our own flag carrier.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Clive Dorman seems to be very anti-frequent flyer, by which I mean the schemes not the people, and also always seems ready to have a whinge on Qantas in order to get lots of readers commenting and agreeing with him and telling their own stories. A shame to see SMH encouraging this troll-baiting.

Ben Sandilands is another aviation writer who takes shots at Qantas every chance he can get and funny enough he is also very critical of frequent flyer schemes.

It's as if they cannot grasp the concept that these schemes can be very good for some people and that they are of course in place to benefit airlines in the end!

and the irony of this is that you need to understand why commercial media exists. it is there to make money. pick topics that engage your readers and you make more money.

 

[Nizar]

Guys are we able to book EK flights as award redemptions using QF points ?

How do we do this ? Is it much cheaper than QF redemptions given that .... as per the article... "Qantas’s fuel surcharge on a return economy or business class ticket to Europe is $760 compared with just $150 on Emirates in economy and $230 in business. "

 

[frankxinyu]

the great sense of entitlement.

Everyone wants Qantas to do everything for them, but they are not willing to pay for the service. when it comes to the crunch these idiots will cop the 4 hr delay and fly tiger any way.

Who cares, i have given VA a chance when they did status matching, and it is simply not the same. If i feel like getting served by 23 year olds bartenders on a plane i can do that any day.

I choose QF for a reason and it is simply the best product in Australia, and its QFF programme is one of the best on the world.