Scathing Qantas Article

[Edge]

Surprised to hear so many rejections re switching to earlier flights on QF. I've been NB or PS and always on red e-deals over the past few years and I'd say my success has been about 70%. Twice I've been declined at the service desk at check-in but then successfully tried again at the service desk past security. YMMV, but sometimes it's worth asking twice (and never 'expect' it, treat it as a bonus).

 

[Princess Fiona]

Love articles like this and the ensuing "Quantas" bashing brigade bringing up the rear with their comments
It only means a better choice of quality redemptions for the rest of us

BTW on the subject of WP treatment on QF and VA, can I say that I find QF in an entirely different league when it comes to status recognition. Kind of like European Champions vs SPL.

 

[medhead]

Wow that change the whole relevance of the article

It was the kindest thing I could think to say about your interpretation. It is hardly scathing of qantas. As such it doesn't belong in the Qantas area, IMO. (Clearly mods don't agree with my opinion.) It possibly makes the travel news section but it's hardly news. Oh and it wasn't posted today, it's old and barely newsworthy. Also pretty sure it's been posted already. Might have been good to keep the discussion in the same thread.

On the whole - Meh!

 

[Katie]

Its not always weather that is a factor, it can be an impending cancellation upstream thats known but not published.

Or somewhere like SYD where there passengers connecting from Int to Dom. We srrived from BKK in Jan, and there were apparently hold ups on the tarmac, so our bags didn't hit the conveyors until at least 1hr after arriving. Then there was the craziest mosh pit of regular and DYWKIA pax with17 limes smashing into 1 to go through customs. The transfer staff were very keen to see us & know we would make our connection to BNE.

 

[Pushka]

Maybe it depends on the destination. Many more flights Melbourne Sydney than to Adelaide.

As far as status recognition goes, usually had a free upgrade on Virgin. Qantas, never in domestic.

 

[GoldCanyon340]

Slightly off topic, but I am also constantly saddened by the seemingly national sport of Qantas Bashing. It is certainly the most professional company at which I've worked. Now as a customer I, like many people on here, rightly recognise it as a wonderful airline with some of the best ground and in-flight products.

Slightly more on topic, I paid those exorbitant fees today for a JASA to HKG and all I can say is it's worth every penny to escape from the ADL winter weather for a while

I also remember the quantas.com domain being registered many years ago.

 

[straitman]

I thought the article was spot on. Unfortunately, I have lost my gold status with Qantas earlier this year as our company has moved all travel to Virgin. As a Virgin gold member, I feel as though they treat me much better than Qantas did in recent years. I have always been given consideration to board an earlier flight, if available. This is a welcome change from the Qantas policy, which never allowed a flight change in my five years of Gold. (The only exception being on a r/t MEL-BNE on a Saturday that I purchased myself just to extend Gold in 2012. I was in the lounge and asked if I could be sent on a sooner flight back to MEL and, of course, give a flat "no." That's no problem, I told the Customer Service woman, let me get settled for five hours of ravaging the food and drink at the lounge. Believe it or not, I got a page offering me the next flight back).

Virgin has it shortcomings--the flights are uneven and less reliable and the lounges can't compare to Qantas. But, the attitude and energy is much better. At least they seem to care about their premiere flyers. With Qantas, it seems the staff is entrenched in old habits and policies.

As a comparison, by the way, the United FF program allows MEL-LAX for 80k points and about $100 in taxes. I know United is pretty average, but there are amazing differences in FF reward redemption schemes.

usgallagher,

Welcome to AFF.

Maybe you should post a self intro in the intro thread.

Regarding you reference to UA it is hardly relevant to post burn rates unless you include the earn rates as these are directly related.

 

[Globetrotter]

Slightly off topic, but I am also constantly saddened by the seemingly national sport of Qantas Bashing. It is certainly the most professional company at which I've worked. Now as a customer I, like many people on here, rightly recognise it as a wonderful airline with some of the best ground and in-flight products.

Slightly more on topic, I paid those exorbitant fees today for a JASA to HKG and all I can say is it's worth every penny to escape from the ADL winter weather for a while

I also remember the quantas.com domain being registered many years ago.

I totally agree with your comments about Qantas. In my days in corporate travel I found Qantas' approach to be very professional and their offerings quite consistent. Yes the attitude issue was exactly that, an issue but I feel it is less of a problem these days. If I can travel first class to London for $450 + points (one way) instead of $9k then I ain't complaining. I tried Virgin for two years, domestic and internationally and I found their service to be quite good but inconsistent overall. I am old school and my preference is Qantas and I am entitled to that.

 

[travelislife]

I find it interesting that in all the arguments no one actually mentions that recently Virgin hasn't been charging fuel surcharges so is only a tad over $100 for MEL-LAX returning rightful taxes. So hopefully the competition by Virgin and now Qantas' own partner in Emirates might force the fuel surcharges out the door, but I am highly doubtful.

 

[pauly7]

Surprised to hear so many rejections re switching to earlier flights on QF. I've been NB or PS and always on red e-deals over the past few years and I'd say my success has been about 70%. Twice I've been declined at the service desk at check-in but then successfully tried again at the service desk past security. YMMV, but sometimes it's worth asking twice (and never 'expect' it, treat it as a bonus).

Agreed - my change rate on QF red e deals is more like 90%. It's all about when you fly, who you ask and how you ask. Suspect with some of the personalities in here their tone may be not so... successful in being able to influence people positively in real life

VA fly ahead has been borderline useless for me, the staff seem to struggle with it. I just make sure I fly flexible.

 

[Limewood]

I don't know what Clive the writer is on about, of course how can 9M QFF members be wrong, sure of late award prices have increased and in some cases more points are required but hey what doesn't go up, do think however, we should have been advised about the latter up front.

In my case over the years I've had a number of op ups, usually book way in advance when using ASA's for OS trips and found some fantastic deals at times, get many points back, had some excellent offers come my way like 2 DC's and sooner or later as a QFF member something extra will come your way.

On a slow news day some can bash Qantas as much as they like but I for one am not going anywhere.

 

[fersea]

Clive Dorman writes an online column for the SMH every week that comes out at midday Monday. And yes, many of the comments every week do get stuck into Qantas.

I think the big issue with many of the commenters and Dorman is somewhat to blame for this, is that they continually talk about "loyalty".

What people need to understand is that QFF or any other airline program is not a "loyalty" program but rather a "Frequent Flyer" program. Some may say I am nitpicking, but if you read the comments there are always a lot of commenters who talk about their "loyalty" to Qantas and this may mean they never use another airline. However that "loyalty" won't get you far if you don't fly a lot. On the other hand, someone who flies every week but only 50% of the time flies Qantas, is not being loyal to Qantas but will have a much higher status.

Having said all of that, Qantas would be well placed to read the comments each week. (And I am sure they do). These people may not be as knowledgable as most on here, but they are people who have money and in increasing numbers are taking it elsewhere.

 

[Anna]

These people may not be as knowledgable as most on here, but they are people who have money and in increasing numbers are taking it elsewhere.

Would be interesting to see if a scathing VA / JQ / BA (insert airline name here) article elicited just as many responses from people swearing never to use VA / JQ / BA (insert airline name here) again and taking their business to QF instead.

QF isn't perfect but IME and IMO the competition is usually worse. (YMMV of course).

 

[medhead]

On the other hand, someone who flies every week but only 50% of the time flies Qantas, is not being loyal to Qantas but will have a much higher status.

They're probably being as loyal as they need to be, to match qantas' appreciation of their loyalty. Perhaps if qantas improved some of the issues the customer identified in their feedback they might be more loyal.

 

[doctork]

A frequent flyer program that charges more, but is still alive, is better than one that falls over because its airline goes out of business.
I learned this from Ansett Global Rewards.

QFF is effectively points-plus-pay no matter what type of points flight (ASA, Classic or points-plus-pay). Still cheaper than paying-only for premium economy or business. And I agree with:

it is hardly relevant to post burn rates unless you include the earn rates as these are directly related.

If the effective discount on a premium fare provides a reasonable return, given the outlay to buy/earn the points, then that'll do me. It then depends on the earn/burn rate of different programs, and the relative inconvenience of trying to earn in a program of an airline I'm not as likely to fly much.

 

[Ricardo]

I would suggest that in today's business world that 'loyalty' (as such) does not exist, consumers (and business for that matter) are are far more savvy these days, and how would an article such as this be conveyed (and debated with people having a say and giving feedback) say 20 years ago without the net and other mediums of communication such as this forum (and the likes of Twitter FB and such that I prefer not to be invloved with for my own personal reasons).

At the end of the day people need to make a decision as to what works for them.

For me being a QFF member with no status I have found no issue with redemming points for Intl and Domestic flights on rare occasions, but I do agree that over the past while charges and taxes (fuel or whatever the case may be) do seem to be getting unreasonable when you consider the price of a ticket. As some have said the value lies in upgrades and or business and first redemptions.

The old saying cavet emptor needs to be applied to using QFF points.

I agree that QFF is a frequent flyer scheme rather than a 'loyalty' scheme, does being a QFF member make you more loyal ? Maybe or maybe not......

I can be loyal to my local school footy club etc .....

 

[Warks]

When I read the article it seemed like a rehash of the one from a week or so back about fuel surcharges which WAS a QF story. You don't have to worry too much about the commenters - look at any story about anything and it seems to provoke an outpouring of whingeing these days. Anything that says how good or how bad things are in Australia always provokes people to comment how great things are in Shanghai, New York, London, Lagos etc and how cough Australia is now. You can set your watch by it. Try reading a column about the banks!

 

[markis10]

What people need to understand is that QFF or any other airline program is not a "loyalty" program but rather a "Frequent Flyer" program. Some may say I am nitpicking, but if you read the comments there are always a lot of commenters who talk about their "loyalty" to Qantas and this may mean they never use another airline. However that "loyalty" won't get you far if you don't fly a lot. On the other hand, someone who flies every week but only 50% of the time flies Qantas, is not being loyal to Qantas but will have a much higher status.

Maybe you are nitpicking but so am I :mrgreen:, Qantas Frequent Flyer is a brand which is part of Qantas Loyalty which also includes Epiqure as well as Accumulate.

Our Brands - More Than A Rewards Program - Qantas Loyalty | Qantas Loyalty

 

[albatross710]

The author of the original article refers to

But the back end of frequent flyer programs was a complex, daunting and even dangerous juggling act where airline accountants fretted about ever-growing "contingent liabilities".

When I look at the QAN 2012 Annual Report the audited accounts state

Qantas Frequent Flyer
Qantas Frequent Flyer delivered record
Normalised EBIT increased by 14 per cent to $1.2 billion
of $231 million. Billings

So that's not a bad 'liability'.


*

 

[simongr]

I agree that QFF is a frequent flyer scheme rather than a 'loyalty' scheme, does being a QFF member make you more loyal ? Maybe or maybe not......

The question of loyalty is one frequently debated here - and it is an interesting and worthy debate (if at times a little feisty). I would argue whether QFF is just a frequent flyer program. The people benefiting most from the program in terms of awards are the frequent spenders as they often through pushing business spending through CCs are able to snag business class awards that would in the past have only gone to frequent flyers with large points balances.

Personally I fly every week with QF. I dont do this out of loyalty to QF - I do it because the alternative is not really different and to spread my flying around would not be as beneficial to the one person/group that I am actually loyal to - me and my family. I show QF exactly the same amount of loyalty that they show me.