QFF programme changes - AGAIN! Can't be good news?

[toetoes]

Qantas Changes to FF

As an old FF in my number 10x,xx_ I too have seen many so called enhancements in the programme. Long ago, I was able to fly J around Au for only 37,500 points. Yes, I did it twice. NAN in J for I think it was 40,000 points. BNE-NOU only 20,000 points each with two seats on award.

So with 150,000, not a lot, but, I will burn off all of them by May 2005. Perhaps this is an act by QF to get this off its accounts?

I, as most here do not like changers to the programme. However the number of first time posters is interesting. Are they true QF frequent flyers or from the dark side to QF bash. I will still fly QF till such time as Vermin or another have a FF programme.

For the record I have been in QF FF since 1993. It was once a very good programme, now I think not so.

RIP Qantas Frequent Flyer.

Just my thoughts, Thks.

 

[danielh]

Before I mentioned that my Melbourne to Hong Kong flight was still 50,000 but that is only because I booked those flights now. Looking at the Qantas site it looks like it is 60,000.

I think a lot of us will be pre booking a lot of flights in the next few weeks.

Regards
Daniel

 

[serfty]

11,000km for 37,500 points in J, 30,000 in Y

Yeah I did the J trip three times. Even sent my Daughter and SIL off in J on their honeymoon. (75,000 points, I booked the honeymoon trip 360 days in advance).

Back then the points tables were slightly different for International and "Wholly Domestic".

I found aout my tolerence limits on these trips & for the last one I split the roundtrip at Alice Springs giving me an eastern seaboard tour followed by a west coast tour two months later. Far healthier.

Memories.....MEL, PER, BME, AYQ, ASP, CNS, BNE, MEL

 

[HardieBoys]

Flying SYD-HKG 5 or 6 times per year, I'm 10 000 points per redemption flight worse off, though I'm 10 SCs better off per return flight. Moreover, whilst 1350 SCs used to purchase a business upgrade on the same flight (3 upgrade credits), they now give me 15 000 'loyalty' points instead, which is 37.5% of the cost of a business upgrade on the same route. The new upgrade table makes calculating the extent of the devaluation quite simple.

For Zone 5 travellers (SYD-HKG & MEL-HKG), the value of frequent flyer points has been devalued by 20%, and the value of the old upgrade credit has been devalued by 62.5%. Not bad...

Whilst mightily upset by the changes, my viewpoint is that the points programs and especially the co-branded credit card schemes (of which I am a member) have greatly contributed to the frequent flyer points holdings that most people have. With greater numbers of points being accumulated by greater numbers of people, either QF has a significant liability if it does not review redemption values. That's from an economic point of view... from a personal point of view, I feel cheated.

Currently Platinum/Life Silver, flying 100 domestic legs per year, and 20 international legs per year (though only the equivalent of one J SYD-LHR or SYD-JFK per year). Not sure what to do about the program, and may be better off moving to Cathay. I may be better off purchasing a Cathay J ticket, getting the same SCs as QF, and whilst missing out on the bonus QF points, I can always make them up at the supermarket, paying utilities etc etc. This way, status levels can be maintained, whilst getting a consistently better level of service. Suggestions or alternatives, anyone?

As a PR exercise, QFF couldn't have timed it better - not. The Bearded Branson is about to hit our shores again in two weeks with the new Virgin Atlantic service, with the promise of a better product. It will be interesting to see QF's response.

Interestingly, I was speaking to a QFF staff member a couple of months ago who hinted at the changes, and said that I'd be pleased with the changes.

One final comment, and that is that whilst the changes in the QFF seem to have become increasingly customer-unfriendly, my understanding is that other programs have moved in the other direction. I recall reading somewhere that AA relaxed some of their rules (ie. they became more customer-friendly).

 

[thadocta]

the thadocta analysis about Huge profits is a red herring.

Bullsh1t it is.

Dave

 

[shillard]

the thadocta analysis about Huge profits is a red herring.

Bullsh1t it is.

Dave

Yeah, what he said.

Anyone who thinks QF makes "huge profits" needs to go back to school, or check out the annual report of their bank.

 

[Warks]

Wow I'm glad I started this thread!! Do I win an award for most replies or something? Yeah it would have happened anyway I just happened to open the email and post it straight away that morning.

One thing I've found lately (and it's probably been this way for a while) is that when booking award flights for relatives (I have only once ever used an award booking for myself) the taxes and other sundry slugs - oh well they're all taxes one way or another - add up almost to the price of a very cheap fare! That actually devalues the points further - of course the govt is to blame for that but nonetheless these points are depreciating faster than a brand new Saab once you drive it out of the showroom.

Now, not the best example regarding relative ticket cost but... I recently booked my in-laws SYD-PER and it cost me $155 in taxes. Of course the points for their flight were a gift in a time of need but I couldn't do a George Costanza and go and ask them to pay the taxes!!!

 

[HardieBoys]

Actually, Warks, you DO get an award for this post, but after 25 May 2005, you will only get 0.75 of an award.

 

[dajop]

That actually devalues the points further - of course the govt is to blame for that

Ask for a breakdown of what the "taxes" are, I think you'll find that apart from noise levies and international departure taxes (which we always had to pay) there are very few government imposed taxes. Instead you find a range of charges that used to be absorbed by airlines in all ticket prices, but not any more - security screening levies, airport passenger charges, insurance levies, fuel levies etc. None of these are government taxes, apart from the 10% GST you pay on each of them. A

 

[Ric]

ACCC

[quote="theolecoot"]Ahem. i hate to suggest it... but dont you think the accc has already approved this process so that the membership can hear about it now?? dont you think that a multi billion dollar business would know the rules and regulations that govern a program like frequent flyers?

Another newbie here. Been a QC/QFF for over 14 yrs and now working in Malaysia. Very disgusted with the changes. I have been saving for a business class family trip Syd to London for 4 which would have cost 880,000 pts. Saved 700,000 pts but with these changes...........??!!!

Have anyone ACTUALLY complained to the ACCC re these changes? If so, would be interested in their reply. I would if someone can post their complaints website link. I think complaining to Qantas would be fruitless...they couldn't care less about their customers!!

 

[NM]

I don't see what the ACCC can do here. QF are perfectly within the terms and conditions of the program and have always retained the right to change the program. At least they have given 6 months notice.

My biggest complaint is that even though airfares are decreasing and basically at an all-time low, we find that reward redemptions for flights and upgrades are increasing in "cost". QF does not pay "interest" on points retained in one's account for several years while saving for an award. These points were "paid for" in the sense that the ticket price or CC company or other FF program partner has provided funds to QF. So they can invest that money and see its value increase. But our points are devalued each time the program is "enhanced".

AT least we have 6 months to clear out the account before the current balance is devalued.

 

[straitman]

AT least we have 6 months to clear out the account before the current balance is devalued.

Just watch availability (for the next 6 months) dry up really quickly :!: :evil:

 

[NM]

Just watch availability (for the next 6 months) dry up really quickly :!: :evil:

Actually, you have an 18 month window for availability. Just needs to be booked before 25th May, giving until May 2006 for the flights to be taken.

 

[straitman]

Just watch availability (for the next 6 months) dry up really quickly :!: :evil:

Actually, you have an 18 month window for availability. Just needs to be booked before 25th May, giving until May 2006 for the flights to be taken.

Of course. Sorry!

 

[cpl]

Re: Qantas FF Program

Another way Qantas rewards its loyal FF members!!

Give me the oportunity to transfer my Gold FF status to Singapore... quick.

Same here (Platinum flyer).

 

[Rick93]

Thanks NM....

Your 'tip', that we have until May 2006 to actually take a booked Award Flight, was the best 'constructive' comment I've seen recently...

I was thinking... that if I booked now (shortly), I'd have to take the trip BEFORE 25 May 2005.

I hope many others will now be aware of this.... as it will hopefully ease the demand for availability of popular routes, like Sydney to LA (via Fiji).

Good luck to all, in getting the 'best value' from our QFF points....

 

[arun]

I just booked 3 tkts to Adelaide (rtn) for 60K points and $240 in taxes. ( I have to go for a wedding).
I was in fact wondering if it is worth keeping it for an overseas trip late next year. But with the devaluation, I just thought I would burn them. The tkts would have otherwise cost over $850.00. 60K points for a savings of $600 - bit expensive. But at least I know how much I am paying rather than getting the points devalued again and again. (Also, it eases the cashflow during the holiday season!

 

[pvd]

To the clever investors who think qantas is performing badly, why are you holding qantas shares???? However to debunk your arguement here is a quote

SMH 1/12/04
"But the IATA, which represents 270 airlines, said it still expected the industry to rack up more than $US4 billion ($5.2 billion) in losses in 2004, "

The point is if your not happy with your qantas returns & share price (which peaked last week) Sell sell sell.

Try start think think thinking!

 

[thadocta]

You miss the point (as usual) - whilst the rate of return is not good, there is room for improvement - which is EXACTLY what we are seeing now, implementing measures designed to improve profit.

Whilst I as a Gold FF am not happy with the changes - in fact, I am royally pi55ed off with them - I as a shareholder am quite happy.

Dave

 

[mjm]

Good riddance to useless Upgrade Credits

Over the past 6 months I have completed 22 Economy Class flights to/from Singapore (QF5/6) and been unable to use a single Upgrade Credit. Good riddance to them as the 5,000 proints will be better used covering the extra points now required for Frequent Flyer travel.