QFF programme changes - AGAIN! Can't be good news?

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dajop

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Will75 said:
Living in Western Australia, the new rules are quite a disadvantage. Fewer points for one way trips from Sydney to Melbourne is hardly beneficial for us here.

Oh come on you bunch of WA wingers. You too can partake in the program improvements .... you won't need as many points now to go from Perth to Kalgoorlie either. :wink:
 
Joined
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Journalist seeking comment from unhappy frequent flyers

I am a journalist with the Australian newspaper.

I am trying to get in touch with frequent flyer members who are unhappy about the change Qantas has made to the program for a story in tomorrow's paper.

If you want to express you views on the overhaul, please give me a call or send me an email as soon as possible.

Kind regards,
Annabelle McDonald

02 9288 2359
0407 452 402
[email protected] australian.com.au
 

cathusmacus

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Airline - start acting like one!

Below is recount of a flight I actually paid for: as frequent flyer I don't get suprised anymore at the attitude of Qantas to us (cut and past of a letter I sent to them). How much worse can this airline get - frequent flyers, loyalty, now 20% less value on the one benefit that used to exist. I for one would be hard pressed to find a reason to fly with them again after the below. Points or more points - that shouldn't be the question.

"I was booked on a return trip to London, one leg of which was a code share with Qantas.
To begin the trip the QF 21 had 3 hours on tarmac with a fuel gauge problem which was disappointing. Eventually we were told we could not get clearance to take off due to curfew restrictions. I am sure you can appreciate the frustration of being a passenger when this happens however the remaining experience compounded this frustration immensely.


We had to collect our luggage and clear customs. Prior to customs there were a total of two Qantas staff I could see with a list of passengers that wanted to check our names off and provide cab charges to those who lived locally. The most time consuming part of all this was the fact that when 1 person needed a cab charge the remaining passengers were forced to stand in the queue while it was manually written out by one of two staff. Surely one person for cab charges would have made this lengthy process much shorter. Once we cleared customs we then faced queue of passengers with exactly the same purpose which passengers remained obediently on while more cab charges were written. I then approached the staff member after about 15 minutes on this queue, asking if we needed to wait if we had had our names checked already and she said no you can go straight to the buses for the hotel. More unnecessary delay at about 1.30 am.


The Crest Hotel in Kings Cross was the chosen destination and took approximately 40-45 minutes to get to. Why substandard hotel (3.5 stars) was used and why we were shunted so far away from the airport I am at a loss to understand. I know Sydney well and the number of good quality hotels within minutes of the airport could have been used and caused much less discomfort for all concerned. The coaches couldn’t approach the front door of the Crest Hotel so we had to unload and drag our bags up the pavement, around a corner to the hotel foyer. Having had two physiotherapy appointments while in Sydney on my neck and back, I was forced to take painkillers on the remainder of the lengthy trip outlined below. I am unsure if you know the actual position of this hotel but it is surrounded by 24 hour drinking dens and in a very unsavoury area to say the least. The constant noise from these bars made sleep very difficult.


Hotel staff did their best to accommodate the long line of people but I was very perturbed when one concierge was telling passengers traveling alone that they needed to find someone to share a room with prior to hotel registration. I am sure you can appreciate the issues too many to list here that most people would have being forced to share a room with a total stranger.
Fortunately another member of the hotel staff was happy to oblige with queen bed rooms for solo passengers. The lifts for the hotel of which there were 3 were incredibly slow and with so many people it took about 30 minutes to get to my room.


Having not eaten since lunch time I would have assumed some sort of food would have been provided at the hotel for either dinner or breakfast. But apparently not! After stating this at the airport check-in the next morning the Qantas staff had been told we had been given breakfast at the Crest Hotel while the staff at the hotel told us nothing had been arranged. Eventually we were given an $8 voucher for refreshments (those of us that asked for it anyway) which if you have ever eaten at the airport you will know is just enough for a croissant and coffee – not even a proper breakfast or sandwich at any of the eating places and I checked quite a few before and after clearing customs. By this time we had not food or drink for approximately 12 hours.


I also was forced due to this delay to make some calls and I ordered refreshment at the Crest and was astounded I was made to pay for this (receipts attached).

The Qantas replacement plane due to leave at 9 am was then delayed by three hours just to make matters worse. The plane was noticeably older than the original one and as the captain mentioned delays often compound into other problems – one of these which I hope was the standard of the food which was average to say the least. Eventually making it to Narita I was then forced to O/N in the Holiday Inn which thankfully was close to the airport, bags were taken to rooms, dinner and breakfast were provided (no refreshments unfortunately) but at the level of service I would expect. All of this in the same time frame of delay as experienced in Sydney. I did incur some costs here for refreshments and phone call also (receipts attached)


I find it difficult to believe as a frequent flyer member ******** and a passenger on a Qantas flight, the level of service assistance that was given to us in the advent of technical problems. I understand technical problems are the priority for any airline and I am more than accepting of necessary delays for this reason. I would think however that the attitude of Qantas in this type of situation would be to make the passengers delay as comfortable and as painless as possible and for them to be given not only basic requirements of a decent standard for food, drinks and accommodation and sufficient staff members to speed up transit to hotels, help with luggage, but also some sort of compensation for the delay. On top of the charges that receipts have been provided for I was also forced to use my UK mobile several times while delayed. As this was a code share flight you will notice the rest of my trip was with JAL. In comparison of the basics between the two I would suggest that Qantas has considerable ground to make up. The overall impression I have been left with is that only the bare minimum is given to Qantas passengers while JAL go out of their way to provide a higher level of service and comfort. Even down to the general attitude of staff on the flights there was a noticeable difference.


This situation above is a disgrace. I was delayed by a total of 24 hours which made my entire trip 52 hours in length. It is not the delay that is problem. It is the fact that not only was I not compensated for the delay - I incurred expenses in the process! I know in other situations that people are paid to be bumped of overbooked flights and given first class accommodation due to the delay they are incurring through no fault of their own. I fail to see the difference between that and a delay due to technical problems – also no fault of my own. I would reasonably expect a prompt response from you and compensation over and above the incurred expenses to restore my considerably lagging faith in your airline. "
 

cathusmacus

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Joined
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Airline - start acting like one!

Below is recount of a flight I actually paid for: as frequent flyer I don't get suprised anymore at the attitude of Qantas to us (cut and past of a letter I sent to them). How much worse can this airline get - frequent flyers, loyalty, now 20% less value on the one benefit that used to exist. I for one would be hard pressed to find a reason to fly with them again after the below. Points or more points - that shouldn't be the question. Don't kid yourself they care about their customers or loyalty. Profits are the bottom line. They will only get it if we don't use them!

"I was booked on a return trip to London, one leg of which was a code share with Qantas.
To begin the trip the QF 21 had 3 hours on tarmac with a fuel gauge problem which was disappointing. Eventually we were told we could not get clearance to take off due to curfew restrictions. I am sure you can appreciate the frustration of being a passenger when this happens however the remaining experience compounded this frustration immensely.


We had to collect our luggage and clear customs. Prior to customs there were a total of two Qantas staff I could see with a list of passengers that wanted to check our names off and provide cab charges to those who lived locally. The most time consuming part of all this was the fact that when 1 person needed a cab charge the remaining passengers were forced to stand in the queue while it was manually written out by one of two staff. Surely one person for cab charges would have made this lengthy process much shorter. Once we cleared customs we then faced queue of passengers with exactly the same purpose which passengers remained obediently on while more cab charges were written. I then approached the staff member after about 15 minutes on this queue, asking if we needed to wait if we had had our names checked already and she said no you can go straight to the buses for the hotel. More unnecessary delay at about 1.30 am.


The Crest Hotel in Kings Cross was the chosen destination and took approximately 40-45 minutes to get to. Why substandard hotel (3.5 stars) was used and why we were shunted so far away from the airport I am at a loss to understand. I know Sydney well and the number of good quality hotels within minutes of the airport could have been used and caused much less discomfort for all concerned. The coaches couldn’t approach the front door of the Crest Hotel so we had to unload and drag our bags up the pavement, around a corner to the hotel foyer. Having had two physiotherapy appointments while in Sydney on my neck and back, I was forced to take painkillers on the remainder of the lengthy trip outlined below. I am unsure if you know the actual position of this hotel but it is surrounded by 24 hour drinking dens and in a very unsavoury area to say the least. The constant noise from these bars made sleep very difficult.


Hotel staff did their best to accommodate the long line of people but I was very perturbed when one concierge was telling passengers traveling alone that they needed to find someone to share a room with prior to hotel registration. I am sure you can appreciate the issues too many to list here that most people would have being forced to share a room with a total stranger.
Fortunately another member of the hotel staff was happy to oblige with queen bed rooms for solo passengers. The lifts for the hotel of which there were 3 were incredibly slow and with so many people it took about 30 minutes to get to my room.


Having not eaten since lunch time I would have assumed some sort of food would have been provided at the hotel for either dinner or breakfast. But apparently not! After stating this at the airport check-in the next morning the Qantas staff had been told we had been given breakfast at the Crest Hotel while the staff at the hotel told us nothing had been arranged. Eventually we were given an $8 voucher for refreshments (those of us that asked for it anyway) which if you have ever eaten at the airport you will know is just enough for a croissant and coffee – not even a proper breakfast or sandwich at any of the eating places and I checked quite a few before and after clearing customs. By this time we had not food or drink for approximately 12 hours.


I also was forced due to this delay to make some calls and I ordered refreshment at the Crest and was astounded I was made to pay for this (receipts attached).

The Qantas replacement plane due to leave at 9 am was then delayed by three hours just to make matters worse. The plane was noticeably older than the original one and as the captain mentioned delays often compound into other problems – one of these which I hope was the standard of the food which was average to say the least. Eventually making it to Narita I was then forced to O/N in the Holiday Inn which thankfully was close to the airport, bags were taken to rooms, dinner and breakfast were provided (no refreshments unfortunately) but at the level of service I would expect. All of this in the same time frame of delay as experienced in Sydney. I did incur some costs here for refreshments and phone call also (receipts attached)


I find it difficult to believe as a frequent flyer member ******** and a passenger on a Qantas flight, the level of service assistance that was given to us in the advent of technical problems. I understand technical problems are the priority for any airline and I am more than accepting of necessary delays for this reason. I would think however that the attitude of Qantas in this type of situation would be to make the passengers delay as comfortable and as painless as possible and for them to be given not only basic requirements of a decent standard for food, drinks and accommodation and sufficient staff members to speed up transit to hotels, help with luggage, but also some sort of compensation for the delay. On top of the charges that receipts have been provided for I was also forced to use my UK mobile several times while delayed. As this was a code share flight you will notice the rest of my trip was with JAL. In comparison of the basics between the two I would suggest that Qantas has considerable ground to make up. The overall impression I have been left with is that only the bare minimum is given to Qantas passengers while JAL go out of their way to provide a higher level of service and comfort. Even down to the general attitude of staff on the flights there was a noticeable difference.


This situation above is a disgrace. I was delayed by a total of 24 hours which made my entire trip 52 hours in length. It is not the delay that is problem. It is the fact that not only was I not compensated for the delay - I incurred expenses in the process! I know in other situations that people are paid to be bumped of overbooked flights and given first class accommodation due to the delay they are incurring through no fault of their own. I fail to see the difference between that and a delay due to technical problems – also no fault of my own. I would reasonably expect a prompt response from you and compensation over and above the incurred expenses to restore my considerably lagging faith in your airline. " (Letter Dated 3rd November) Sent to customer service and Frequent flyer customerservice.
 

maria lane

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Having recently returned from RTW J class, I am disgruntled several ways;
Q "lost" 4 inter Europe Ba flts + a LHR-Lax en route meaning GOLD was only granted on return home, instead of 2/3rd way thru at Dallas which I transited 6 times and I was denied access to AA lounge. :x EVEN THO FLYING J!
I've used 45000 pts Adelaide-Syd Auckland J return, but now find my remaining 110k points won't take me Y to london - need 128K; can't spend $18,000 in 6mths!

If any upside, based on my trip, the status credits would have been higher; so easier to retain/upgrade status for those expensive points.
Within one world CX was most stylish,had on demand IFE and used my name from boarding - others look me up on a printed sheet.
PS: Best Flights Website have an Airport to Airport Mileage thingo which is not too different from Q base miles.
Maria lane.
 

Budley

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This is all very sad.

But, I'd like to see the doctor's views on this before I make my mind up.

:)
 

danielh

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Dec 5, 2003
Posts
352
Does anyone know how much a return flight between Melbourne and Hong Kong will cost under the new system?

It previously used to cost 50,000 points for a return ticket.

I'm trying to use the system but it is taking about 10 minutes to load a page (and I've got 1500 speed ADSL).

Looking at the 1 way charts, I _think_ Melb to HK is zone 4 and so that means 25,000 one way but I'm not sure.

Regards
Daniel
 

danielh

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Posts
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Just got into the system. The flights are still 50,000 for Mlb-HKG return so I'm happy.

I'm going to europe for my honeymoon next year but I'll be paying for that with cash so I guess my points will be going to quick shopping holidays in HK. :)

Regards
Daniel
 

Rick93

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Posts
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Holy cow, Batman!

Where have all these people come from?
Suddenly, there's all these 'first timers' on this site.....

Something has stirred people up....

(I'm just off to the chemist for more Prozac...)
 

NM

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Re: Airline - start acting like one!

cathusmacus said:
This situation above is a disgrace. I was delayed by a total of 24 hours which made my entire trip 52 hours in length. It is not the delay that is problem. It is the fact that not only was I not compensated for the delay - I incurred expenses in the process!
Since you were delayed over 24 hours, I suggest your bst course of action for compensation and reimbursement of out of associated pocket expenses is through your travel insurance policy. I understand it is the airline's fault, but as you have notes, this particular airline's attitude to assisting its delayed passengers is not what we would like it to be, and your description of events certainly matches most standard travel insurance policy requirements for compensation.
 

Jim

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Free stopovers

They said on the Today Show there in no longer a charge for stop overs. Is this true and are the rules?
 

dajop

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That is 100% correct there is no charge for stopovers. However what they don't tell you - to do a stopover you now have to an extra "trip". This is what I mean - say you wanted to do SYD-Broome with a stopover in Perth - now you will have to book three "trips" on your itinerary- 18,000 for SYD-PER, 12,000 for PER-BME and then come back to SYD another 18,000. (ie 48,000 pts) (without a stopover in Perth this would be 36,000 pts).

Under the current conditions this would have been 30,000 pts + 10,000 pts for stopover. So not only are you 6,000pts worse off for the booking, you're another 2,000pts worse off for the stopover!
 

Myrna

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722
Well this topic has brought out so many first timers - hopefully someone will collect all these responses and post them to Qantas. Has anyone commented on how Qantas has never stopped whinging about how unfair it has to compete against other airlines whenever one of them moots to come to Australia? Yet, each year Qantas has seemed to produce a profit exceeding forecast and expectation. Wonder, how much Qantas has received from partners / suppliers of award points like the banks, hotels, car hires - could not find it in its annual report, but must be in the hundreds of millions? Has Qantas provided a benefit to ff members for the money it received? It would be an interesting exercise for someone - eg ACCC or ACA?
 

thadocta

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Ahhh, that age old myth about Qantas making huge profits - they are NOT making huge profits, based upon the size of the company.

As an example, company A is worth $1 million, and make a profit of $500,00. Company B is worth $100 million, and makes a profit of $750,000. In dollar terms company B is the better performer, but in actual REAL terms, company A is doing HEAPS better than company B.

And this is where Qantas is - the size of their profit - based on the overall size of the company - is not that brilliant really.

So don't go dragging up the old "profits" argument, since it just doesn't wash.

(DISCLAIMER: I am a Qantas shareholder).

Dave
 

pvd

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Posts
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the thadocta analysis about Huge profits is a red herring.

ROI are industry by industry for starters and if an investor doesn't like the ROI he can sell the shares and buy share in a company with a better ROI, (ignoring the fact the higherthe ROI the greater the risk which is a concern to me) Unlike FF members who a locked into a depreciating asset.
there seem to be this view with QF management that FF Points are "FREE" the fact is the customer pays for themwhen they buy their ticket. it part of the old mind airline mindset if you are not flying in a premuim they just take your money and actually flying you is an optional extra

they should disclose the Real marketing strategy behind it.
remember the "spirt of australia", last airline to introduce individual entertainment, flat beds, and still no economy plus.
staffing using the cheapest labour they can find in the world. Has any one tried living in london on £12k pa. G.dixon should try
 

Rossmurdoch

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Does anybody have any information if Singapore, Cathay etc have made similar changes to their programs on such a regular basis as Qantas seems to be doing.
 
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straitman

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Ahhh, that age old myth about Qantas making huge profits - they are NOT making huge profits, based upon the size of the company.

Very true :!: From a business perspective, QANTAS don't make huge profits.

the thadocta analysis about Huge profits is a red herring.

Can't say that I agree at all. Adding to my comment above. At least QANTAS make a profit which is significantly different from the majority of airlines.

Unlike FF members who a locked into a depreciating asset.

I agree entirely, however I must agree with the other side of the picture also.

that FF Points are "FREE" the fact is the customer pays for them when they buy their ticket.

When I buy an airline ticket the primary purpose is to travel from A to B in the most efficient method and at the most cost effective price. In many cases that can be with a carrier that does not offer a Frequent Flyer program or alternately with a FF friendly airline at similar cost. In these cases the FF points are effectively free :!:
On this score I just booked a return MEL - CNS for mid December (ie 2 weeks time) at the same price I could with DJ. So I get to use the QP, get status credits and FF miles effectively for free.
 

ozmuzz

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Joined
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Posts
14
Qantas Timing

Qantas could not have chosen a worse time for "realigning" the program. On top of previous changes that devalued upgrade points by up to 80%, there have been lots of changes by the banks - ANZ gold 1:1 only to $2500, CBA non gold cards devlaued 100% to 2:1 etc.

On top of this as a gold frequent flyer I am continuously amazed at the lengths that Qantas staff will go to to make me feel like I am burdening their day.

Qantas needs to realise that the top levels of FF are actually what drives their profits... and they have really turned off most of the Gold and Platinum FF in the last 18 months.

:evil:
 
S

shillard

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Re: Qantas Timing

ozmuzz said:
Qantas needs to realise that the top levels of FF are actually what drives their profits... and they have really turned off most of the Gold and Platinum FF in the last 18 months.

:evil:

What a load of belly-acheing cobblers.

To paraphrase the Governator, "don't be loyalty programme girly-men".

There is no point in any business running a loyalty scheme that doesn't make financial sense - go ask Coles-Myer about that. And amazingly, despite the "betrayed loyal customers, etc, etc" being "shafted, ripped-off, etc, etc, etc" by the changes to the Coles-Myer shareholder card scheme, the company has IMPROVED out of sight.

I strongly suspect that most of those howling are all piss and wind, and only a few flights on Vermin, Deathstar, Unitedinbankruptcy or SIA (assuming you survive the SIA flight) will be required to give them a reality check.

I'll put down $100 saying that QF's passenger numbers will be UP 12 months from now.

Anyone up to the challenge?
 
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