QF12 business class service fail?

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Qatar J fail today. A brilliant crew from CDG to DOH then not so good from DOH to Adelaide. Expected to be offered wine when dinner was served - didn’t see anyone carrying a bottle the whole dinner service. Pre dinner drinks order not taken until seat belt sign lifted and arrived an hour after departure. MrP had to continually ask for his dinner service G&T. The promised mattress never arrived up to 2.5 hours (by now 11.30pm) so gave up and went to sleep as did others. When I woke the crew normally see activity and ask if you want a drink or something. Nup. They were up and down the aisle looking busy but goodness knows what they were doing as most were asleep. But no one made eye contact. Even a trip to the loo didn’t hasten the usual ‘can I get you anything’. So I went back to the galley thinking stuff it. Received the tea, no milk. Back to the galley again.
 
I group QF service fails into three categories:

1. Non existent
In this case, my strategy of choice is the call button. I've rarely had anyone not appear with this approach.

2. Condescending or bullying (bring in the troops) behaviour
This is usually triggered by my polite requests to lower the cabin temperature from say 24 to 20-21 degrees. My strategy here is to stay calm, call out their behaviour, and remain firm with the request. They usually back off when their inappropriate behaviour is called out, particularly in front of the troops (i.e., the other FAs or CSMs they've involved).

3. Hopeless
I just give up on this one and try to see the humour in the situation rather than dwell on how much that F fare cost. On my last QF1 flight in F, on the SIN to LHR leg, as it was late, I asked to have a pot of tea and then just the pasta. No entree he asked? No thanks. No side salad? No thanks. Nothing else? No thanks, just the tea and the pasta.

I was in 5A, about 2m from the galley. No tea arrived, although I could see others being served drinks and then food. Just as I was about to call on strategy #1, the call button, the FA appeared with a single bowl. Is this OK, he asked. Would you like any olive oil? I looked into the bowl, and it was a serving of plain pasta! I explained that I was hoping to have some sauce on the pasta as per the menu. And a pot of tea would be nice, too. Eventually I managed to get something to eat. But I was flabbergasted - who on earth would order a bowl of plain noodles?

The rest of the flight was the averted eyes-type behaviour. I purposefully didn't ask for breakfast to test them, and not a single FA asked me if I wanted anything, despite having to walk by me dozens of times in 5A. I eventually pressed the call button to ask for a second pot of tea, and even then, the FA who responded didn't ask if I was going to have breakfast.

I thought I'd say something to the CSM when he came by before landing, but the CSMs seem to know when the service is just irredeemable and ignore you as well. He just sailed by instead of trying to have a conversation.
 
CSM in this case was Australian (A330 ex BKK so Australian based crew generally). Surname was Indian but clearly a few generations old (much like my Euro name). I really don't think that's part of it though. It's more the cultural issues that exist within the Qantas ranks.

For the record, I wasn't at all unpleasant with this staff member. We had endured a long delay in BKK, and a run to the gate (with every other J pax as the EK lounge didn't call the flight when it eventually boarded) but I basically just sat down and read my book in an effort to make myself tired. The only thing I can think of that may have triggered his attitude was that I wasn't making a whole lot of small talk during his little "welcome" speech. Regardless, I don't really see how it's up to the passenger to "play up" to the flight attendant in order to get them to do their job. It's not my job to explain to them why I won't be eating the meal (even though I'm pretty sure I did), but we do have an odd attitude in Australia where service staff seem to think they're doing customers a favour by showing up to do their job.
 
Just to balance the ledger a little, we had that rare, perfect, crew upstairs on QF128 last night.
Mattresses were fitted before boarding, food and drink orders taken before departure and delivered speedily thereafter.
Friendly, but not over-familiar.
Morning service continued right up until the final seat belt sign came on.
 
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This is usually triggered by my polite requests to lower the cabin temperature from say 24 to 20-21 degrees. My strategy

This would affect everyone in the cabin though, many of whom would have already ‘adjusted’ their clothing and blankets etc to the current temperature.

I can see why this request may flummox them, but it doesn’t excuse their patronising behaviour.
 
In my experience, perhaps not as extensive as other writers, QF is consistently good. I have sometimes found the CSM in F to be overly chatty, but never impolite. Luck of the draw perhaps.
 
I always fly Qantas domestic but prefer QR for international. QF is just too inconsistent with service, or lack thereof, especially when paying J prices. Which is why I won't pay for J across the continent now, but sometimes use points. QR, EK and Cathay all seem to have higher professional standards.
 
Honestly I am feeling a little uncomfortable regarding the culttural and racial generalisations some have used in this thread.. but that's just me :)

Some carriers have different service standards and training. eg: Poochie's SQ "kneeling FA" is almost always seen on SQ (or has been by me) and they are trained within an inch of their lives to these standards (and the discrimination some carriers - not just asian - have with hiring and firing is on a whole other level). Just quietly all that kneeling and stuff is probably hell on their backs and stuff.

EVERY airline has good and bad staff and experiences. I've had absolutely perfect flights with QF crew - in all classes - and I've had shockers. Pushka gave an example of QR just recently 2 flight sectors, good and bad crew.

People are human.

Folks see variation less on Asian carriers I think dur to cultural norms and standards eg: saving face, service standards and YES a bit of discrimination (eg: Ask a native singaporean about SQ service standards.. I have seen various reports that crews will often defer to whites and treat locals differently... maybe that's rare or not, but have definitely read about it).

As for the CSM interfaction.. there's no reason to treat a pax like that to question them about pre-ordering a meal.. delay or mo. Heavens you can change your mind on the day. You could have had a big meal before travel.. you may not been feeling too well, or just want to sleep. it's not for the crew to question one's change of mind.. that's appaling behaviour no matter how I try to imaine the scenario.

That CSM probably should not be doing a customer facing role if that's a common attitude for him. (I can't even put it down to the delay or bad day thing because questioning a customer's choices in this way is a core no no to me). I'm not saying the customer is always right or anything like that, but that questioning as reported was ridiculous and totally inappropriate imho.
 
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Honestly I am feeling a little uncomfortable regarding the culttural and racial generalisations some have used in this thread.. but that's just me :)

Some carriers have different service standards and training. eg: Poochie's SQ "kneeling FA" is almost always seen on SQ (or has been by me) and they are trained within an inch of their lives to these standards (and the discrimination some carriers - not just asian - have with hiring and firing is on a whole other level). Just quietly all that kneeling and stuff is probably hell on their backs and stuff.

EVERY airline has good and bad staff and experiences. I've had absolutely perfect flights with QF crew - in all classes - and I've had shockers. Pushka gave an example of QR just recently 2 flight sectors, good and bad crew.

People are human.

Folks see variation less on Asian carriers I think dur to cultural norms and standards eg: saving face, service standards and YES a bit of discrimination (eg: Ask a native singaporean about SQ service standards.. I have seen various reports that crews will often defer to whites and treat locals differently... maybe that's rare or not, but have definitely read about it).

As for the CSM interfaction.. there's no reason to treat a pax like that to question them about pre-ordering a meal.. delay or mo. Heavens you can change your mind on the day. You could have had a big meal before travel.. you may not been feeling too well, or just want to sleep. it's not for the crew to question one's change of mind.. that's appaling behaviour no matter how I try to imaine the scenario.

That CSM probably should not be doing a customer facing role if that's a common attitude for him. (I can't even put it down to the delay or bad day thing because questioning a customer's choices in this way is a core no no to me). I'm not saying the customer is always right or anything like that, but that questioning as reported was ridiculous and totally inappropriate imho.
Racial generalisations they may be, but we are trying simply to establish why this particular staffs service was so terrible.
As you say there are goods and bads of any culture or age group or carrier,
But establishing patterns helps us understand why they may behave like the one in question

That's my take
 
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Racial generalisations they may be, but we are trying simply to establish why this particular staffs service was so terrible.
As you say there are goods and bads of any culture or age group or carrier,
But establishing patterns helps us understand why they may behave like the one in question

That's my take

You mean liike.... racial profiling?!

Sorry I'm not trying to be all PC leftie here or anything I just thiunk it's wrong to assume anything based on the appearance or name of an individual to "explain" their behaviour(which in itself is poor). I mean my surname has Scotish roots.. does that then imply I'm a whisky drinking tight cough? Definitely no to one, and I'd disagree to the other :)

And frankly, in the context of the much discussed CSM interaction on one flight, the culture or background of that individual, to me, is irrelevant, because it was wrong period no matter what. There's simply no way ANY carrier's training would consider that sort of customer interaction to be OK... be it the ultra fawning attitude displayed by some carriers, or the more "laid back" service standards of others like QF/VA and NZ.

Shouldn't it be about customer service and not the race, gender or other background of the service individual(s) involved? If they sign on to work for airline X, then they are going to be expected to adhere to the standards set by that organisation in my view.

Don't get me wrong.. I absolutely understand the notion of understanding someone's background to understand why they would behavve in a certain way. Cultural sensitivity is important but it seems to me those in public contact roles (be it airlines, government departments, hotels or whatever) should be adhering to the accepted social norms, and standards of their employers..

To me explaining away poor service because "S/he's an [insert race/culture here].. That's how they are" is almos excusing it because of that. On QF I expect to be be treated respectfuly and politely(as I hope to give also). I don't expect to be fawned at, or having my choices questoned in the manner described earlier.

I think in respect of discussing service experiences and standards on a carrier like QF we shouldn't need to bring race, culture or gender into it. That's what I'm trying to say :)
 
I also really don't want to bring race,origins into the argument but the fact is there is difference between cultures.If there wasn't we wouldn't have PC thought.
There is good and bad in all cultures as well as big differences between individuals. I have noticed that on some of my Asian carrier flights a distinct change in style. Paricularly on the Japanese carriers. I have disliked the way some older Japanese treat the FAs in the premium cabins.I will always treat them as equals.With greater exposure to different cultures we have had some great experiences on JAL and ANA.On JAL a CSM came and had a long chat to mrsdrron after the meal service was over.On ANA on a F award I had great service from a FA who I complimented waiting to leave the plane.She answered-but that was because you are so nice drron.Karma.

So in the event described by the OP is totally wrong whichever way you want to judge it.
 
Honestly I am feeling a little uncomfortable regarding the culttural and racial generalisations some have used in this thread.. but that's just me :)

Unfortunate this is a big problem across this whole forum. Look at latest posts on thread about Uber experiences, users are making many generalisations about people base on ethnics. Very sad to see.
 
QF 117 in J. I pre ordered. Having had a good lunch in the Flounge, when the CSM came round for orders pre departure, I asked if I could be served as late as possible ( the menu actually says we can eat anytime).

Totally polite and nice about it, but clearly that wasn't part of the CSM's plan. Best I could get is that I would be served towards the end; service to start about an hour out.
 
I also really don't want to bring race,origins into the argument but the fact is there is difference between cultures.

I agree. Service on all the European majors is disting to their home countries. Lufthansa is very German for example. And Swiss 'Swiss. The Dutch and French are different again.

Maybe the issue is trying to define exactly what 'is' Aussie service culture. Egalitarian perhaps? But that's no excuse for bad servivce.
 
Some carriers have different service standards and training.

This exactly.

I can't help but think that QF's service design contributes to the perception some passengers have of poor and inconsistent service. Some CSM's and their staff seem quite intuitive, and adept and managing well with (or despite) what they've been given to work with, whilst those who are less competent just stick to the script. For the latter it comes across as poor service from an individual - which sometime it is - , but designing services to be cheap. Why wouldn't you offer drinks after take off? Why would you create confusion for passengers (that staff have to deal with) by having all this "small plates" and "big plates" nonsense?. This leads to (poor) service outcomes that have their gestation in the product design.
 
I also really don't want to bring race,origins into the argument but the fact is there is difference between cultures.

Anyone who flies Emirates regularly can see the difference between the different cultures. Presumably they all receive the same training and have the same instructions, but sometimes service can be pretty abrupt, an other times it can be informal but responsive, and other times almost deferential. And that's all on the same flight. Of course you'll always come across people who stand out - for good or bad reasons - from their "crowd".
 
QF 117 in J. I pre ordered. Having had a good lunch in the Flounge, when the CSM came round for orders pre departure, I asked if I could be served as late as possible ( the menu actually says we can eat anytime).

Totally polite and nice about it, but clearly that wasn't part of the CSM's plan. Best I could get is that I would be served towards the end; service to start about an hour out.
- just tell them to do their usual best and that would be about right :eek:o_O:D
 
I've been thinking about this and I wonder if, without any experience "inside" QF, or asking anyone.. but I wonder if one aspect of QF's service model is to encourage a "relaxed" and less formal experience for pax with the idea of "relaxed" being loosely interpreted by some? I also feel crews tend to take their cues from the CSM on any particular flight.

I find NZ tend to be more consistent with their "relaxed kiwi hospitality" style in that I usually know what to expect and it's service that is warm without being cloying or formally stuff and usually pretty prompt and efficient but also allowing for one to, for example, linger over a mug of tea or dessert.

QF I find, specially international, either way tto speed through service on say a supper flight (which makes some sense) or dawle along at whatever pace.

And then you get situations where different FA's serve different sides of a cabin and some work at a faster pace, or are busy serving a deanding pax or whatever and the appearance is of one side doing things differently to the other.

I've had this on many carrriers. I see it often on UA, usually with more senior crew being.. less efficient shall we say at times. but that's also an unfair generalisation because I absolutely have had experiences with ex-PA (yes that's going back!) FA's with 40ish years experience providing the BEST service by a mile. So it's really not fair to make generalisations...

... and thus we get back to the idea of culture and race being an issue. Obviously someone's background MAY come through with their service .. but you know what this is also where a good CSM, for example, can note this and instruct that FA more appropriately to adhere to the company's service standards. Of course if the CSM has a bad service attitude (for whatever reason, which most likely may have nothing to do with culture or race - and I'm meaning generally any airline not QF or EK here) then you're in trouble.

I've noted previously a few times an experience about 15 years ago in SQ F where I flew to London (absolutely amazing for the time) and it just so happened that on my return trip I had the same cabin crew LHR-SIN. I was greeted at the door like an old friend, they had the Krug waiting etc which was stunning.. but what was more stunning was the purser(as they were known in those days IIRC) came to me during boarding and said "I noted you had a poor service experience on the flight into London sir. Just to let you know that crew member is working Economy on this sector" (I was gobsmacked and felt awful). The bizarre thing was that *I* didn't have an issue with the service on the previous flight, nor did I note anything to any of the crew or have any complaints.. so I felt even worse and wondered if it was a confusion of pax, but given he remembered my preferences and stuff when I boarded I do not think so. Anyway that's an extreme example of "enforcing service standards" to me, and I felt so bad for her (I think it was a she).. and I am not saying a QF CSM or EK crew member should be banished for poor service, but really.... I do think that one's personal feelings, attitudes beliefs etc stay at home if you go to work for a customer focused business like an airline and adhere to their standards.. whatever they may be. Obviously we all have bad days and that can get through, but even so I'd hate to think that on a carrier like QF, for example, which is pretty egalatarian in spirit and as a corporate entitity wouldn't condone actions taken by a staff member (or customer for that matter) based on culture or religion that was outside of acceptable norms.

Incidently I've never felt any issue with any of the many nationalities EK have on their flights that I've ever received different levels of service from anyone in particular because of their background, but maybe I just don't notice such things :)
 
I've been thinking about this and I wonder if, without any experience "inside" QF, or asking anyone.. but I wonder if one aspect of QF's service model is to encourage a "relaxed" and less formal experience for pax with the idea of "relaxed" being loosely interpreted by some?

I think that's right. But I think most European carriers also have a 'relaxed' service ethic. You're supposed to feel 'at home'.

But maybe this is where Aussie cultre comes in? Just that little bit 'too' relaxed? But the other noticeable difference is that I've never come across pretentious crew on Euro, Asian or US carriers.
 
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