Qantas Fleet Grounded 29/10

[fiscal]

1. In the end it was the board and CEO of Qantas that brought the whole issue to a head.
2. The FWA ended the industrial action (as I expected).
3. Qantas began flying again.
4. 53% of a 6000 vote poll at PerthNow.com.au showed the public supported the Qantas move.
5. A lot less coverage in the news and newspapers, less than a week after the event.

In summary, it was a em-brazened move that made the news, but because of strong public support it has all now died down a lot. Not newsworthy unless it is negative.

With Qantas paying compensation and expenses for delayed travel, it will only be a small number of passengers who will vow "never again", but then again, they were probably never loyal in the first place.

I was inconvenienced just recently by the baggage handlers and aircraft engineers on an overseas trip. Due to the rush connection at LAX to JFK we left an expensive pair of glasses on board (never recovered and not covered by insurance), but we will continue to support Qantas.

In the end Qantas will survive, and militant unions will have to learn new ways to negotiate.

 

[aviator]

I had the misfortune to be transiting to a domestic Qantas flight to Adelaide from an overseas QF flight that arrived at 5:10pm in Melbourne on Saturday. I was very lucky to be able to get on a JetStar flight at 9pm only by phoning my wife and getting her to buy the seat online. The sales desk queues were extensive and I would have never got to the front in time to secure a seat. I was very impressed by the friendly helpful attitude of the JetStar ground and cabin staff.
It was disappointing that Mr Joyce took the apparently unilateral action of grounding the Qantas fleet at 5pm on Saturday as I am sure it has badly damaged the Qantas brand. I think it will make business travellers nervous about booking with Qantas in the near future. Qantas is already an expensive airline to use but add unreliability to that will I am sure push a lot to look at alternatives. I travel a lot overseas on business from our base in Adelaide. Unfortunately Qantas International flights have declined substantially in number and they have cut out entirely their Adelaide-Auckland flights. Their competitors have increased their international flights from Adelaide with Singapore, Cathay and Malaysian all flying direct. Flying through Mel/Syd/Bne/Per adds considerable time to a journey particularly if you are only going to our nearest neighbour New Zealand. Talking to to other international business passengers in Adelaide over the last 20 years it it very apparent that Qantas have never really been very interested in servicing their business being much more interested in the Syd/Mel markets. Qantas only has old 737s serving Adelaide and also the TransTasman routes (now outsourced to an low-cost NZ based subsidiary). Despite this they continue to charge premium prices for travelling on these old fully depreciated machines. It costs me about the same to travel economy from Adelaide to New Plymouth in New Zealand as it cost me to travel from Adelaide to Houston or Adelaide to Aberdeen my other top business destinations.
Business class travel is also the most expensive even compared to it's OneWorld partners
Why do I stick with Qantas. 1) Safety record 2) An Australian company.
I am just a little dubious about Mr Joyce's (and the lacklustre Qantas Board's) ability to handle this dispute effectively and ulterior motives in apparently deliberately damaging the brand.

 

[amaroo]

Also temper it with the fact that qantas advertising plays on the nationalistic angle. If it truly isn't the national airline why does their advertising say it is?


Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app so please excuse the lack of links.

FWIW, for as long as they have to contend with the Qantas Act and the 51% ownership provisions, I think there entitled to call themselves Australian in whatever form they want.

 

[fiscal]

Mr Joyce took the apparently unilateral action of grounding the Qantas fleet

To be fair, the Qantas board endorsed and supported the move hours BEFORE the announcement was made.

 

[mbeder]

53% of a 6000 vote poll at PerthNow.com.au showed the public supported the Qantas move.

Interestingly, the following results of recent Sydney Morning Herald Polls show support going the other way:

Did Qantas go too far by grounding its entire fleet and locking out workers? (closed 31/10/2011 with 117,572 votes) Has 58% "Yes."

Will you still fly Qantas after the dispute ends? (closed 3/11/2011 with 39,892 votes) Has 47% probably/definitely

 

[JASON123]

Excellent decision by Alan Joyce to ground Qantas. It forced the unions hand and they have backed down. Qantas cannot compete with so many other international airlines if our unions are going to get away with demanding extortionate wages not in line with the airline's competitors.

 

[fiscal]

Interestingly, the following results of recent Sydney Morning Herald Polls show support going the other way:

Did Qantas go too far by grounding its entire fleet and locking out workers? (closed 31/10/2011 with 117,572 votes) Has 58% "Yes."

Will you still fly Qantas after the dispute ends? (closed 3/11/2011 with 39,892 votes) Has 47% probably/definitely

Now thats not fair. I like my poll results much better, and I have never had any time for the Sydney Morning Herald anyway...<g>.

In that case it is probably in line with voters political intentions, as you may appreciate the ALP (that is union representatives) is on the nose over here in the West.

 

[simongr]

5. A lot less coverage in the news and newspapers, less than a week after the event.

I have been genuinely surprised by this - very little front age coverage post Monday.

FWIW, as a wavering Qantas loyalist (and shareholder...although they're not worth much these days!) I've been torn as to who to support on this issue. The reality is that for my SYD-MEL return flight next week, I've booked one leg on QF and one on DJ as the price saving on DJ was significant (and they recently status matched me). I have lounge access for both airlines, so these days I'm hard pressed to be 100% loyal to one airline. Anyone else feel the same way?

I am 100% with you on this for DOMESTIC flights. I found the lounges similar (I don't spend as much time in the lounge on DOM trips so the margins between QF J lounge and DJ/VA The Lounge are not tremendous), the in flight service similar, the prices similar and only the food offerings differ (being free or nothing on short hops).

I actually might fly VA/DJ just out of sheer boredom with the QF product. I have fortnightly trips planned to MEL next year so I am sure some of those will go to DJ/VA.

 

[mbeder]

Now thats not fair. I like my poll results much better, and I have never had any time for the Sydney Morning Herald anyway...<g>.

In that case it is probably in line with voters political intentions, as you may appreciate the ALP (that is union representatives) is on the nose over here in the West.

Ha ha @Fiscal. Interestingly there's another SMH poll underway with 9 hours still to run. It currently has 21,764 responses.

Who do you blame more for the dispute escalating? Current standing:

Qantas management - 47%
Qantas unions - 31%
The government - 9%
All equally - 13%

Despite the fact that the options are not necessarily optimal, the management is clearly coming off second best (at least amongst this sample).

 

[mobydk]

[FONT=&quot]QF has been on the wrong track for years. It has followed the One World airline group which has been losing traffic while Star Alliance and Sky Team are busy building their networks. ex QF 2ic Borgetti at Virgin has set up a good global pax funnel for them where QF has missed out.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]That is why QF Int is bleeding. (Along with their aloof pricing practices). So the CEO has only himself to blame for QF's problems. They are management made. He can't continue to blame the Middle East Airlines for their dominance over QF. They are by geographical location a non-stop airline to the world while QF is a one-stop. Government backing has nothing to do with QF's problems. That's an old Geoff Dixon whine. He trotted that out to cover his inadequacies. What about fuel hedging? I wonder why that is not talked about.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I was a QF Platinum FF but now only Silver heading down. I travel J and buy tickets by price and limo service at destination.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I won't be back to QF. I'm sick of being booked to one destination and ending up in another missing meetings, having to change flights just prior to leaving because of equipment failure etc.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The QF CEO has spent all his airline life at Air Lingus, Ansett and Jetstar. All low end products. He doesn't have a full service ethos or understand the Australian psyche when dealing with employees.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]My advice for his new Malaysian full service airline is to call it Ansett. It would be healing for the past and it has an Aussie ring.[/FONT]

 

[medhead]

FWIW, for as long as they have to contend with the Qantas Act and the 51% ownership provisions, I think there entitled to call themselves Australian in whatever form they want.

Ignore the point all you wish but as long as qantas keeps playing the australian card people can stop telling me they are a private company and hence not a national airline. Simply put it can't be both ways; we're the spirit of Australia when we want you're money but not when people want us to live up to that spirit.

I assume you read the context of my comment and didn't just take it out of context.


Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app so please excuse the lack of links.

 

[Robmn]

I travelled QANTAS in the past couple of weeks. I thought I was OK to travel without problems as there were to be no strike action by the Unions till the end of the month. THEN! Our return trip from Cairns was a bit surreal it was the 4.15pm flight on the 29th. We checked in with reasonable time. As we were having a coffee the boarding was brought forward by 15 minutes, we were sort of rushed onto the aircraft and pushed back early. The flight crew were not as talkative and didn't give the usual speil or the qantaspilots.com thing message like my September flight. Arrival at SYD 8.00pm was strange all the terminal was closed, planes lined up at the gates, not much activity, no traffic at the pickup outside. The pax were not informed what so ever of the situation. I felt sorry for those employees who were not involved in the union action.

So I missed the action by 45 minutes but it would not have bothered me if I were stuck in Cairns for a couple of days as long as QANTAS gets sorted.

The Unions had disrupted more pax than what this lockout caused, so why blame QANTAS.

Are the Unions going to offer compensation to pax who were previously effected by their strikes?

r

 

[DC3]

Both impacted the public.

But the Unions actions were a mosquito bite; the Qantas mgt actions were a nuclear bomb. Keep perspective.

Hey, browski. You got a couple of good bites with that one

 

[billy8]

Re: Qantas Fleet Grounded 29/10 - My experience in Buenos Aires

I was supposed to fly on QF18 last Saturday at 2:05pm from Buenos Aires. The flight operates just 3 x weekly.

I was not informed via SMS, email, nor phone call that Qantas was grounded. I had breakfast at 8am and planned a 10am departure for the international
airport. About 9am I got an email from Sydney from a mate who told me Qantas was grounded. The hotel I was staying at then told me that they had just had a call from Qantas looking to book hotel rooms (but zilch about the grounding, or why). As it was Saturday the BA Qantas office was closed until 9am Monday, and there was no info on their tape message at all. Luckily, the hotel had the telephone number for a Qantas staffer and they rang him for me and he then informed me that I was to check-out of my hotel and then report to the Sheraton, where I would be put up and given 3 meals a day until a flight could be arranged.

Neither on Saturday,Sunday or Monday was I, or any of the other 63 Qantas stranded passengers ever contacted (to my knowledge) by Qantas either locally or from Oz. No Qantas rep ever showed up at the hotel. Rumours abounded. Nobody knew when the Saturday replacement flight would operate. The next normal flight was Monday, 31st but it would have its own passengers and seats allocated.

On Sunday night my onward booking was gone in the Qantas website and no new reservation was in its place. On Monday morning a (what I presume) dummy reservation was in place for me to fly home on 12 November -- almost 2 weeks hence.

I spent 39 minutes on my mobile trying to get a Qantas rep in Melbourne at the FF program number to answer, but gave up.
At 8:15am Monday morning the Sheraton said they "thought" that a bus was coming at 9am to take everyone to the airport.
The email they'd gotten from Qantas was vague, and they were not sure, nor which guests would be allowed a seat. They suggested that we all check out
and be ready to get on the bus. A bus then did show up, without any Qantas livery, signage, nor any Qantas rep aboard. Only a bus driver who knew nothing other than he was going to the airport.

Everyone piled on and we got to the airport about 10:15am.

The check-in took 3 1/2 hours all up. Every single 747 Jumbo passenger -- all 400 -- had to have their original reservation individually located, cancelled, a new Monday reservation set up, then an Eticket then issued, and its number triple-checked by a Supervisor about 100 metres away from the check-in counters. That meant ground staff running back and forth to her with slips of paper all morning long. It was not until I actually got to the counter, after 12 noon, that for the first time I had it actually confirmed that I was to be allocated a seat on that day's flight. Some people went through the whole process and for some reason were not being allocated a flight until Wednesday. The flight was scheduled for departure at 1:05pm, but actually took off at exactly 4:01pm.

At no time in the past week has Qantas ever contacted me in Buenos Aires by any means whatsoever. If I had not heard from my first hotel that Qantas was looking for rooms, or from the Sheraton that they "thought" it was a good idea that I go to my room, pack and check-out to see if a bus came, I would still be in Argentina wondering what was happening.

I commend the Buenos Aires check-in staff for handling a very confused, distraught, and bewildered queue of passengers so well, under the circumstances.

I and the other 62 passengers housed at the Sheraton were all Business Class passengers. I am sure that the flight was 3 hours late departing because that is how long it took thepoor people stuck in the Economy Class queue to be checked in.

 

[DC3]

... It is a simple fact. Qantas is NOT the national airline of Australia, it is a privately owned company, and as such is required to be run as one. (There is no requirement for any Australian company, National icon or not to be run by an Aussie). Alan Joyce serves the board and its shareholders, not you and I ...

Unfortunate as it is, I agree with that. Alan Joyce and the Qantas Board have a responsibility to operate the company on behalf of the shareholders and to endeavour to maximise profits. This may well be at the expense of the passengers and the employees. Qantas was once the national carrier, but no more.

 

[amaroo]

Ignore the point all you wish but as long as qantas keeps playing the australian card people can stop telling me they are a private company and hence not a national airline. Simply put it can't be both ways; we're the spirit of Australia when we want you're money but not when people want us to live up to that spirit.

I assume you read the context of my comment and didn't just take it out of context.


Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app so please excuse the lack of links.

I'd totally agree with you if it was only 49.99%.....

 

[luba bowden]

I would say, "a stitch in time saves nine". Well done Qantas.

 

[thewinchester]

The pilot did the whole company line last night - sorry, difficult times, certainty yada, yada, yada.

Also temper it with the fact that qantas advertising plays on the nationalistic angle. If it truly isn't the national airline why does their advertising say it is?

Apologies in advance for the use of Latin prepositions and phrases within this post.

Firstly - a quick swipe at the man: Medhead: <redacted> to the point we're you're just repeating the same old stuff over and over.

Now, let's address the (surprisingly) new point, ad rem, of their advertising playing on nationalistic queues to attract passengers.

This argument is without basis, and was covered in part on last night's episode of Gruen Planet (ABC1, Thursday 9:00pm, available on iView).

Firstly, a bit of background: the original campaign to which medhead refers, "I still call Australia home" was devised in 1997 by famous advertiser John Singleton and QF's Geoff Dixon (then Brand Manager for the carrier), the latter having the idea during a Christmas event where a choir was performing.

Now let's look at Qantas advertising since 2000.

Firstly, I cannot recall any use of the original 1997 piece or updated versions since 2009. And in advertising terms, two years and ten months is a bloody long time. Most punters have poor advertising recall, regardless of medium, seen more than a week ago.

The reason why we all can recall advertisements like "I still call Australia home" is what it reminds us of, specially when abroad. This was touched on by the researcher from ISPOS Australia who appeared on Gruen last night. These and many other advertising icons give us goosebumps are are almost permanently emblazoned on our psyche.

Further, pretty much all of the nationalist queues have vanished from their global brand advertising strategy since the 2010 introduction of the 'enjoy the journey' strapline and brand refresh (the one that brought us the 'pterodactyl' kangaroo). For the evidence, let's start with a sample of TV commercials.

Exhibit A: A380 F/J product from 2010:
[video=youtube;oXm0YpuiN3Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXm0YpuiN3Q[/video]

Stepping back further in time to Exhibit B: A380 introduction:
[video=youtube;Cm0Le0ZjTr0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cm0Le0ZjTr0[/video]

Exhibit C: Domestic NGCI

Exhibit D: Domestic Business Class

Pray tell, where are the nationalistic queues in any of these? Simple answer for those playing at home: zero. And that's from just four examples of TV spots for the carrier.

I'd love to find some print-press advertising, but easy to link to examples of these are hard to find. I note from the ones I have seen these have been done in the styles, concepts and language of the enjoy the journey brand refresh which is demonstrated in Exhibits C & D.

So while Qantas stated and used language queues to suggest it was the national airline, these are all IN THE PAST.

I'm all for discussion, but the fact is the posters claims simply don't hold water, and that goes for that above and most posts prior in this thread.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Unfortunate as it is, I agree with that. Alan Joyce and the Qantas Board have a responsibility to operate the company on behalf of the shareholders and to endeavour to maximise profits. This may well be at the expense of the passengers and the employees. Qantas was once the national carrier, but no more.

The Richard Branson philosophy was to first keep the employees happy as you will then have happy customers and thereby happy shareholders.

If you are keeping shareholders happy to the detriment of passengers & employees then plan to fail. The fiasco that happened on 29 Oct is a classic example of that & AJ and all his ex-AN cronies will just have to deal with the end result.

IMHO last weekend felt like a combination of the 1989 Pilots Dispute, 2001 Ansett Collapse & the infamous Australian/NZ underarm bowling incident in the cricket all rolled into one.

I don't know who all these head of business are who are allegedly saying "good on you Alan Joyce" but I certainly haven't met any of them.

In fact I've heard a lot of passengers many of whom are WP's say how AJ's decision was the most gutless decision they've ever seen & they will never ever fly QF again.

AJ saying that the Unions have been disruptive to passengers is clutching at straws as the Unions whether it was TWU or Engineers Union always gave notice so passengers could take steps to minimise or avoid disruptions to their travel. Never did the Unions blindside passengers by stopping work with no notice.

Apparently AJ was on a flight recently (prior to 29 Oct) & the WP seated next to him didn't hold back in telling him a few home truths, so much so that AJ had to move seats so I imagine travelling will become a little bit more lively in the coming months. Oh well, he made his bed so will have to lie in it.

Looks like QF Management just gave another massive 'free kick' to DJ!

 

[fiscal]

What I want to know is - in exhibit A, the premium economy seat pitch seems more than 38 inches, or is there at least one seat on the A380 that gives you as much room as is displayed in the advert?