Qantas Fleet Grounded 29/10

[amaroo]

I'd also guess their natural inclination is to wear blue undies.

Thats gold......

 

[straitman]

I think the pilots were playing the long game, myself. I'd also guess their natural inclination is to wear blue undies.

Thats gold......

Royal Blue please :!:

 

[medhead]

Thats gold......

I can only credit my grandfather in law, who reportedly told Howard, or similar, that he was wearing his red undies on the occasion of getting an OAM. Not sure if he got it for services to POWs or aviation.*



* there's a book but I haven't read it yet and commercial posts are not allowed.

 

[browski]

Just out of interest - who was impacted by the unions actions? Were those people not innocent? Also in terms of unsuspecting - what about people who changed flights only to have actions cancelled at the last minute.

The unions acted against the travelling public.
The airline acted against the travelling public.

You can argue severity but you can argue who was impacted.

Both impacted the public.

But the Unions actions were a mosquito bite; the Qantas mgt actions were a nuclear bomb. Keep perspective.

 

[simongr]

So given that the unions disrupted the same number of people over the course of their actions is irrelevant?

 

[browski]

I dispute your premise; so yes it is irrelevant.

 

[Robert K]

2 days of definite cancelations is a lot better than indefinite uncertainty.

 

[simongr]

I dispute your premise; so yes it is irrelevant.

There was a great post on that topic that listed all of the disruptions over the past few months and the number of people easily added up to the number disrupted at the weekend.

 

[medhead]

There was a great post on that topic that listed all of the disruptions over the past few months and the number of people easily added up to the number disrupted at the weekend.

But what is the measure of disruption? I was delayed 15 to 30 mins on the day of that massive storm in Melbourne. I sent feedback about the great staff (no mention of strikes at all). The response from qantas focused on the industrial action. This makes me wonder if I was counted as disrupted by the strike or the storm. Did qantas count me as strike or storm delayed? :?:


Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app so please excuse the lack of links.

 

[NM]

So does the FWA directive to cease all industrial action (on all 4 parties - 3 unions and Qantas) mean the pilots are no longer allowed to make the PA about their views regarding keeping Qantas Australian and using Australian pilots? Or is that not considered industrial action under the FWA legislation?

 

[TonyHancock]

So does the FWA directive to cease all industrial action (on all 4 parties - 3 unions and Qantas) mean the pilots are no longer allowed to make the PA about their views regarding keeping Qantas Australian and using Australian pilots? Or is that not considered industrial action under the FWA legislation?

I had two QF flights on the 1st November, and pilots did not wear red ties and did not do the PA spiel.

There have been several references to a decline in QF forward bookings as a result of industrial action. It is however worth noting that the new DJ/VA FF program was launched during this time, including status matches. I certainly made bookings with DJ/VA because of the status match. I wonder if QF is kidding itself a little amongst all of the marketing spin?



Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app

 

[drron]

Both impacted the public.

But the Unions actions were a mosquito bite; the Qantas mgt actions were a nuclear bomb. Keep perspective.

The Unions actions cost QF 68 million.The shutdown 40 million.I dispute your premise.

 

[The Rok]

I suppose all the folks on here and in the general public who proclaim that Qantas is an Auatralian Icon and our national flag carrier and that it is being destroyed by a foreigner never themselves fly Emirates, Etihad, Singapore, Virgin Atlantic and so forth out of Australia..... I mean, if people believe so strongly about Qantas then why is their traffic out of Australia so low....

It is a simple fact. Qantas is NOT the national airline of Australia, it is a privately owned company, and as such is required to be run as one. (There is no requirement for any Australian company, National icon or not to be run by an Aussie). Alan Joyce serves the board and its shareholders, not you and I.

If they deemed this grounding neccessary then I seroiusly doubt it had anything to do with throwing toys out of a pram and more to do with a strategic move by a massive company with more than one person to please.

I for one would be much happier with 3 days of chaos as opposed to 12 months of endless stoppages and absolute cough. I think this move has stunned alot of people purely because it affected so many people, but the end is in sight. I think this was the right move by Qantas, and one that will never be forgotton by the unions and the flying general public.

There are a number of people on this forum who seem adamant that the union demands are reasonable and that the management team are simply out to line their own pockets and deliv=beratily destroy Qantas (If I hear any more about Alan joyce's pay rise i am going to SCREAM). If those people really believe that Qantas should keep all jobs on shore or pay its foreign workers Australian rates and conditions then protest at Parliment and get the Government that YOU ELECTED to buy back Qantas, nationalise it and run it at a loss.

I think there are some deluded minds at play here. Weather QFI is making a profit or a loss as a result of funny business accountint=g is really irrelavent. If the Qantas group was to give in to even half of the union demands then as a whole the company would not be making ANY PROFIT. End result, lack of investment in all parts of its business, lack of shareholder investment and ultimately the end of the airline.

Its time to remove emotion from this debate and apply some logic. If it were YOUR BUSINESS what would you do.... (rethorical question)

 

[oz_mark]

It is a simple fact. Qantas is NOT the national airline of Australia, it is a privately owned company, and as such is required to be run as one. (There is no requirement for any Australian company, National icon or not to be run by an Aussie). Alan Joyce serves the board and its shareholders, not you and I.

You do need to temper your arguments with the fact that unlike most Australian companies, Qantas has its own act of Parliament by which it must abide by. This does impose some restrictions - a board meeting MUST, BY LAW, be presided over by an Australian Citizen, Two thirds of the board must be Australian citizens etc.

 

[browski]

The Unions actions cost QF 68 million.The shutdown 40 million.I dispute your premise.

The premise was regarding the public impact.

....and as an aside, your listed dollar loss figures are as rubbery as a Qantas bread roll.

 

[medhead]

So does the FWA directive to cease all industrial action (on all 4 parties - 3 unions and Qantas) mean the pilots are no longer allowed to make the PA about their views regarding keeping Qantas Australian and using Australian pilots? Or is that not considered industrial action under the FWA legislation?

The pilot did the whole company line last night - sorry, difficult times, certainty yada, yada, yada.

You do need to temper your arguments with the fact that unlike most Australian companies, Qantas has its own act of Parliament by which it must abide by. This does impose some restrictions - a board meeting MUST, BY LAW, be presided over by an Australian Citizen, Two thirds of the board must be Australian citizens etc.

Also temper it with the fact that qantas advertising plays on the nationalistic angle. If it truly isn't the national airline why does their advertising say it is?


Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app so please excuse the lack of links.

 

[amaroo]

The premise was regarding the public impact.

....and as an aside, your listed dollar loss figures are as rubbery as a Qantas bread roll.

There seems to be some doubt on the legitimacy of the QF books. Since they'll all going to the FWA office anyway why doesn't the Government just force the FWA to conclude investigation of Hon ALP member for Dobell so that they can get stuck in & take a look at the QF books. 18 odd days left to go.....they should be able to clear it up by then.

 

[The Rok]

You do need to temper your arguments with the fact that unlike most Australian companies, Qantas has its own act of Parliament by which it must abide by. This does impose some restrictions - a board meeting MUST, BY LAW, be presided over by an Australian Citizen, Two thirds of the board must be Australian citizens etc.

Australian Citizenship and an Aussie are two different things in the context of this discussion. It seems as though Alan Joyce is consistantly referred to as a foreigner, despite holding Australian Citizinship.

It would appear that some folks round here do not consider holding Australian Citizenship as being an Aussie...

Oh, and BTW, my post was not an argument, it was an opinion.

 

[themaiz]

I had two QF flights on the 1st November, and pilots did not wear red ties and did not do the PA spiel.

I was on an A380 to LA two weeks ago and the pilots were wearing red ties. They did one short PA, pointing out the 65,000 hours of flying time shared by the flight deck crew and their concern for our safety. Mood: undeniably positive. Met with several of them after the flight

Last Friday was on QF16 that went nowhere as the grounding was announced. Spent 2 days at the Irvine Marriott with no idea of whether I had enough time to go to Disneyland. Got out on the first plane to leave LAX on Sunday. As things go, probably one of the less-inconvenienced. There were no red ties or related pilot-PAs (that I noticed).

In all this, I have nothing but praise for every single QF person with whom I came into contact. Fabulous. And only one angry passenger, a spectacularly feral idiot* on the flight back who singlehandedly ensured that our part of the cabin got no service.

Everyone else I met was stoic, pleasant, philosophical and good to be around.

But big, big brickbats to QF for complete failure to keep any of us informed. How hard could that have been? 450 of us in one hotel would be a bit hard miss, but not a peep beyond the fax that met us at the hotel.

I didn't need the holiday and I did need the two days of revenue that I lost, but I'm sure Mr Joyce will toss me a cheque for that.

* the spellchecker can't deal with words that end in "hole".


Sent from my iPhone using AustFreqFly app... which is rather interesting.

 

[mbeder]

FWIW, as a wavering Qantas loyalist (and shareholder...although they're not worth much these days!) I've been torn as to who to support on this issue. The reality is that for my SYD-MEL return flight next week, I've booked one leg on QF and one on DJ as the price saving on DJ was significant (and they recently status matched me). I have lounge access for both airlines, so these days I'm hard pressed to be 100% loyal to one airline. Anuone else feel the same way?