Qantas Fleet Grounded 29/10

[straitman]

Meh, knew this was going to happen for sometime. Not Suprised. If you are stuck, Virgin have special fares "saving qantas passengers" tab on there website, the are calling in the heavies from there partners to add extra 60,000 seats so start with. All flights are pretty full, so fares have risen if not an already a stranded Qantas Customer.

But, all I can say is, Well done Qantas, Well done.

Enjoy your company while you can.

Jack,

A very narrow view IMHO. How did you know this was going to happen when nobody else knew :?:

The Virgin special fares as you put it are not worth their paper in many occasions. They are useless to me as I'm leaving from my home airport. (There is no way known I would pay $450 for a MEL-CBR flight normally) The fact that I live about 3 hrs from that 'home airport' so it's also cost an expensive hotel room make it all the more useless.

The partner help you mention is also of no use domestically.

Let's keep some real perspective on this please.

 

[thewinchester]

Ok, latest from Fair Work hearing is that there won't be a decision until tomorrow morning.

This is due to further evidence needing to be called, and allow parties time to prepare any questions for cross examination before further deliberations and handing down a decision.

It's currently 0035 AEDST/1635 GMT, and it's likely they'll be nothing new on this until at least 0830 AEDST/0030 GMT.

I've been following this since it broke (1400 AWST), been glued to the couch and have forgot to eat my leftover creamy roast tomato risotto which I warmed up in the microwave at least 2hrs ago.

Frankly, I'm shattered and am calling it a night. See you all tomorrow.

 

[awilcockson]

btw, while people are using other people's livelyhoods as bargaining chips, and others are happy to disrupt the travel plans of 100s of 1000s of people so that they try and squeeze a bit more of a raise out of their employer, let's all spend a minute in silence on the news that an Afghani trainee has gone mental and killed three of his Australian Army trainers in Afghanistan

Lest We Forget.

 

[CWM]

Go Al, crush those union bovver boys like stinkbugs.

Hahaha, my apologies to those passengers stranded but it cracks me up to read the apoplectic foaming xenophobia on proon. Their last hope for employment is appealing to the clueless turkey in Canberra..... redefines the meaning of doomed. Besides she wants to reduce our carbon footprint, no need for a new tax as your IR laws are doing it all - PM Bob will be chuffed.

 

[ChrisGibbs]

As I understand things, under the Fair Work Act, QF has an obligation to provide X hrs notice of any impending industrial action - hence the notification on Saturday evening of the planned lock out for 8:00pm this Monday evening. In order to guarantee the safety of the travelling public in the intervening period there may be a legitimate reason why QF has grounded all aircraft from 5:00pm Saturday through until at least 8:00pm Monday evening.

 

[chrissie]

btw, while people are using other people's livelyhoods as bargaining chips, and others are happy to disrupt the travel plans of 100s of 1000s of people so that they try and squeeze a bit more of a raise out of their employer, let's all spend a minute in silence on the news that an Afghani trainee has gone mental and killed three of his Australian Army trainers in Afghanistan

Lest We Forget.

I doubt many people currently reading or replying here would have had any knowledge of
this until you made mention of this sad event.....terrible news if confirmed correct

 

[Flying mermaid]

Yeah Like Sol Trujillo another foreign CEO champion. Do u have telstra shares too mate?
We have high quality first rate Australian management here. U should be ashamed of yourself running Australians down.

The interesting thing is that under Sol and all his brinkmanship with the Govt, Telstra sank lower and lower. Now with a local CEO and some decent strategy instead of grandstanding, Telstra is starting to look solid again (well maybe that is too strong a word, but definitely better.).

When Mr FM came and told me this had happened I said he must be crazy - no-one would do that. Now it looks like Joyce is the crazy one not Mr FM.

You know I am not a huge union fan, but this is just rubbish - the staff don't deserve to be treated like this - or the passengers.

No wonder we haven't been hearing anything from Qantas on access to T5 lounges - with this little surprise being cooked up who would waste any time on a tiny issue like that.

 

[QF WP]

Wow, what a day to have my son's 2nd birthday party and miss all the news until I was posting pictures on FB around 5.30pm and saw LiamR had PM'ed me. Have been able to get the SkyNews reports since 10pm. Heard that one of the QF witnesses tonight was a senior operations management guy called Lyle (can't remember surname, but have heard of him).

Well, tomorrow morning will be interesting and I'd expect a decision by 1pm.

Might put off my trip to SYD this week and do next week - or may even have to fly VA

 

[Sprucegoose]

Bugger! I fly to the US Monday .

Not now!! Do you need to travel?

 

[Sprucegoose]

Wow, never expected this nor has it happened in my lifetime!

Anyone who says otherwise is simply untruthful.

Certainly brinkmanship going on. Need to be careful guys.

 

[dfcatch]

Just to clarify some facts:

1/ all non-ALAEA/TWU/AIPA staff will continue to be paid - even after Monday.

2/ all staff - INCLUDING ALAEA/TWU/AIPA will be paid through until Monday.

3/ the unions have the legal right to strike.

4/ the company has a legal right to lock out striking workers.

Now, we can take sides in the dispute if we choose, and we can most certainly complain about the disruption. We can by all means question AJ's actions generally, as CEO and his direction for the company.

But you absolutely can not trash Qantas and say "You can't do that", "That's not fair to the staff".

Sorry - it is fair, you strike - you risk being locked out - fact, fair and truth.

If the individual workers were not aware that this could be a consequence of their industrial action, then they should complain to Purvinas and Sheldon for misleading them.

The unions hold at least 50% responsibility as a lock-out can only occur in response to protracted industrial action by workers.

Whether or not this is strategically and tactically the best decision for Qantas will be something to reflect on later.

In the meantime - you are all entitled to agree or disagree with Joyce.

But the facts remain..... Innocent staff will still be paid. And striking staff get what was coming to them (deservedly or not).

 

[Sojourner]

Gillard has said that there was no need fo4r the government to get involved until now. Seems like this had to be done to get their attention.

Both Albanese and Gillard said that Joyce had not made any contact with them. All Joyce had to do was ask. You can't expect the PM to ask every single CEO, "hey, do you need me to hold your hand through this?"

Maybe in the case of Joyce the petulant kid, she should've. With other Chief Executives, you would expect that they'd talk to the government first before chucking a hissy fit.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Can you imagine the PR hit Qantas is going to take over this? People overseas aren't going to care about the issues or whether it is justified or not. This is going to make headlines as I can't remember a first world country (we are first world aren't we? - I sometimes wonder), grounding its whole fleet like this. So people are going to remember and it has to be a huge negative, when choosing who to fly with......

 

[JohnK]

I am not going to take the side of the unions in taking industrial action but to respond with a lockout! What were they thinking? Cause further distress to your loyal customers? Leave your customers stranded? This is the only way to solve the dispute?

I believe the current Qantas board has totally lost the plot and is incapable of making a decision to save themselves.

And just as well I stayed in Brisbane this weekend and did not go to Sydney. If I was left stranded in Sydney I would be in trouble as I have no annual leave or sick leave and I could not afford to have any time off.

 

[nlagalle]

Meh, knew this was going to happen for sometime. Not Suprised. If you are stuck, Virgin have special fares "saving qantas passengers" tab on there website, the are calling in the heavies from there partners to add extra 60,000 seats so start with. All flights are pretty full, so fares have risen if not an already a stranded Qantas Customer.

But, all I can say is, Well done Qantas, Well done.

Enjoy your company while you can.

Meh Jack, seriously you have no idea.. I shouldn't feed trolls but..

You outlook is immature...

I'm in London and was due to fly home tonight on QF10, now on an SQ flight tonight too. Virgin were no help to me at all. Their page won't do much at all..

 

[file51]

As I understand things, under the Fair Work Act, QF has an obligation to provide X hrs notice of any impending industrial action

My understanding is this

The decision was made to offer no notice, other than the calls 3 hours prior to the announcement to the PM, IR Minister and peak Tourism bodies, due to safety reasons.

The thought of having one rogue employee who did not like this decision and did something vengeful, or perhaps did not complete a routine and maybe mundane safety check, and risk the lives of hundreds of innocent lives.... please, lets not even go there.

Aside from the resources sector, the majority of the economy is still struggling.

Yes, everyone has a right to ask for a pay rise, and altered conditions, but lets be realistic.

To ask for a 15% pay increase, and for some conditions to be locked in that are so outdated, it isnt funny... Factoring in, on average QF employees are paid between 10-25% more than there friends at DJ (who have a largely non unionised workforce) and the same for JQ...

The unions really need to take a good hard look at what they have done, The QF board, and AJ really had no option, especially when this half baked pathetic government of ours was not willing to step in sooner.

 

[JohnPhelan]

I don't know why the government is going to Fair Work Australia - I would have thought going to the immigration department to get Joyce deported would be a better move.

He's an Australian citizen.

But thanks for such a thoughtful and helpful comment.

 

[ozimax]

As I am stuck in NZ atm, does anyone have some inside info as to when the Kangaroo will be flying again??

My flights back to Oz were tomorrow (31/10). There are plenty of flights from NZ at present, but I'm not sure whether to re-book or just hold out for a speedy resolution of the current situation, at least.

Any advice appreciated. Ozi

 

[nlagalle]

As I am stuck in NZ atm, does anyone have some inside info as to when the Kangaroo will be flying again??

My flights back to Oz were tomorrow (31/10). There are plenty of flights from NZ at present, but I'm not sure whether to re-book or just hold out for a speedy resolution of the current situation, at least.

Any advice appreciated. Ozi

I thought Jet Connect weren't affected? So you should be flying still.

 

[chonetsao.co.uk]

Just to repeat what I said in another post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qantas 26 September 2011 The Transport Workers Union (TWU) is targeting Qantas passengers on one of the busiest weekends of the year by instructing 3,800 baggage handlers, ground staff, and other Qantas employees to go on strike for one hour on Friday 30 September. ........... The strike by the TWU forced Qantas to cancel 28 flights and delay 27 flights which caused disruptions to more than 6,100 passengers last Tuesday 20 September.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qantas 06 OCT 2011 The Transport Workers Union’s cynical tactic to withdraw strike action late this afternoon has come too late, with 5,700 Qantas passengers still facing lengthy delays and cancellations tomorrow afternoon. Qantas has already published the new schedule including 17 cancelled flights and 29 delayed flights. Customers have already being contacted alerting them to changes to their flights, planes have been changed and re-positioned and employees including pilots and cabin crew have been redeployed. We have also notified Air Traffic Control of the new schedule. The Australian Licenced Aircraft Engineers Association will continue its rolling one-hour stoppages, which will mean further disruptions at Melbourne Airport tomorrow afternoon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qantas 07 OCT 2011 More than 11,000 Qantas passengers face lengthy delays and cancelled flights on Monday as the Australian Licenced Aircraft Engineers Association (ALAEA) ramps up its industrial campaign against Qantas. Qantas will be forced to cancel 40 flights, delay 24 flights by up to 3.5 hours and bring forward 14 flights on Monday with the union to hold four hour strikes in the afternoon in Melbourne, Brisbane and Sydney. There will be 40 domestic flights cancelled and 27 delayed or brought forward. There will be 11 international services delayed. The union action today and on Monday will bring the total number of passengers that have been impacted since unions commenced strike action six weeks ago to 46,500 passengers from 348 cancelled or delayed flights.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qantas About Qantas 13 OCT 2011 Qantas passengers face their third day this week of severe disruptions to their holiday and business travel plans with the strike on Friday by licensed engineers’ union to affect over 7,600 passengers from 17 flight cancellations and 32 flight delays. ....“The licensed engineers’ union is demanding significant pay increases and a guarantee from Qantas that no changes will be made to old work practices on new generation aircraft, and that no productivity improvements will be introduced.” The total cost of the ALAEA’s claim is $165 million - plus $95 million to build a new hangar. Details of the EBA claim from the ALAEA include: - Around 15 per cent increase in wages and allowances over three years. The remuneration package of the average licensed engineer would be around $170,000 in January 2013 if we agreed to the ALAEA’s claim. - A guarantee that no changes be made to current work practices including changes which improve productivity or that are in line with developments in modern aircraft technology. - Introduction of a time serving classification structure where workers receive additional pay increases based on years of service rather than merit or qualifications.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qantas Press Release by AJ Therefore from Monday we will take the step of reducing five lines of flying to reduce the workload in engineering and make the remaining operation more reliable. That means grounding four narrow-body 737s (out of a fleet of 54) and one wide-body 767 (out of 25) that we use for domestic flying. We will do this for at least one month. This will result in a reduction of 97 flights per week, most of this affecting the ports of Adelaide, Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne. 13 October 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qantas 18 October 2011 Qantas will ground a further two wide-body Boeing 767 aircraft on Monday as ongoing industrial action from the Australian Licenced Engineers Association (ALAEA) continues to cause a backlog of maintenance on the Qantas fleet. The grounding of these two aircraft will see a further 80 domestic flights cancelled over the next month, and the removal of approximately 20,000 seats of capacity. This will mainly impact flights between the eastern states and Perth. As a direct result of the ongoing ALAEA ban on overtime and work to rule, Qantas has now been forced to ground seven aircraft, cancel around 500 flights and remove approximately 88,000 seats from sale over the next month. In addition, since union strike action began less than two months ago by the ALAEA and the Transport Workers’ Union more than 60,000 passengers have been directly impacted, with 129 flights cancelled and 321 flights delayed or brought forward.

And finally on 29th October 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qantas This step is being taken under the provisions of the Fair Work Act in response to industrial action taken by these unions. The financial impact of action taken to date has reached $68 million and the action is costing Qantas approximately $15 million per week in lost revenue. Approximately 70,000 passengers have been affected and more than 600 flights cancelled.

I quite understand why AJ take this action after look back the whole action taken by unions last eight weeks.