Qantas Fleet Grounded 29/10

[Sojourner]

Alan Joyce made the tough choice here, he took the hard option and is finding a long term solution to solve Qantas' problems.

He's going to get this sorted out, and Joyce will not have Qantas flying until an acceptable solution is found.

Good on Alan Joyce I say, he's got some serious guts to ground an airline. He's earning ever cent of his pay cheque right now.

Joyce didn't make a tough choice - he made a childish one. What did he achieve? He got the government involved.

Put anyone else in the job, and all they would have to do to get the government involved is to ring the PM and tell her "Get involved, or the airline gets shut down tomorrow". Then the PM gets involved etc etc... they can go through all that without shutting down the airline.

If that didn't work, then by all means, take the scorched earth approach and burn the airlines, but give people warning at least.

The bottom line is that Joyce could've got the government involved in this WITHOUT shutting down the airline with no notice and stuffing up the lives of hundreds of thousands of people and costing the country millions as well.

 

[Simo]

Watching ABC24 and it is a bit like a tennis match..

Unions say QF are holding the nation to ransom..

QF are saying unions have been holding them to ransom..

Then we have people saying it was all organised long ago and it should have been advised of the action at the AGM.

Maybe they should have said if we can not break the deadlock then we have to take steps via FWA

I don't believe anyone would have foreseen this action happening..

 

[scsto]

RIP QANTAS 16 November 1920 to 29 October 2011

One of the world's great airlines - beloved partner of the people of Australia for just over 90 years.

Tragically murdered by an ignorant Irishman.

Funeral details to follow.

This has nothing to do with AJ's nationallity, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

QF is stuffed (I say this as a long suffering shareholder and a WP - that I pay for, not a company).
QF's biggest problem is the Aussie staff that behave like a lot of overpaid underproductive Aussie public servants. The sooner we have a bunch of polite folk as cabin crew the better - we'll probably have to source them from Singapore, because Australians are far to important and too far full of themselves to even consider providing borderline average service.

I reckon if QF was liqudated tomorrow, my shares might even come "into the money".

Australian used to be a lucky country run by second rate people. Now we have to find first rate people from overseas and what do we do - typical Aussie fashion, cough on thier heads.

This is our problem, our making. I hope we have the fortitude to solve it.

It is a long time since QF was great - we've been sitting on the laurels for so long, the branches and leaves are coming out of out mouths!

Methinks that history will be very kind to AJ - it's about time the union movement got a short sharp - they consume more value than they create!

 

[Moopere]

How low do wages have to get before they are acceptable to management? There does actually come a time where the wages are way too low to actually attend work. Is this where Qantas management want to set the bar?

Or does Qantas management support slavery?

I think we're a long way from slavery with current wages. But this is the sort of misdirection that Unionists thrive on. "The Man" is always a greedy bugger who's loaded and just wants to screw the working class.

If wages are too low for some of those working at QF currently I'd strongly suggest they get other more highly paying positions in other companies. Why do they feel the need to break the company?

I'm not going to throw a hissy fit at my Boss and threaten to end his business ... I'll move on if a negotiation over wages can't come to a reasonable resolution. I certainly can't imagine how one expects to get paid at all if a company stops trading/becomes insolvent.

 

[browski]

Looks like I made the right call booking CX flights this week.

Thank goodness you heeded Steve Purvinas' sage (yet apparently unAustralian) advice.

 

[el_rooto]

First time I've ever seen the WP line engaged...

Drunk calling the WP line was not a fantastic idea....

 

[scsto]

What a mess the Qantas Management have created tonight. I hope the shareholders are happy because the flying public aint.

I am a shareholder and a WP and I'm delighted.

The management at QF have behaved in a first class manner - union members need to start electing representatives that have a functiong frontal lobe! And while we're at it, we need to do the same thing with pollies!

This government has redefined incompetent!

Imagine - they actually made Peter Reith sound wise - sheesh!

 

[thewinchester]

Meh, knew this was going to happen for sometime. Not Suprised.

Do we need to revisit the discussion back in August where your alternate reality and grandstanding were utterly obliterated.

I didn't know it was coming, nobody here on AFF, FT or MP saw it coming, the media didn't know it was coming, the Government didn't know it was coming, and if the unions knew it was coming they would have been on air straight after the 5pm press conference with talking points already prepared.

If none of the above parties had any idea this was coming, what on earth makes you think we'd believe a 15yr old in the middle of nowhere would have any clue this was coming.

Enlighten us Jack, because I'm sure interested to know, and I'm sure everyone else would be interested as to how you came to know this was coming.

Please either put up, or go back to running your online parody airline and leave the discussion to those more adult.

 

[stomplad]

This has nothing to do with AJ's nationallity, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Australian used to be a lucky country run by second rate people. Now we have to find first rate people from overseas and what do we do - typical Aussie fashion, cough on thier heads.!

Yeah Like Sol Trujillo another foreign CEO champion. Do u have telstra shares too mate?
We have high quality first rate Australian management here. U should be ashamed of yourself running Australians down.

 

[chrissie]

Whilst I don't fully understand what exactly the unions want, I as a lay person cannot
for one minute support the action of Qantas. Sure the actions of the unions caused
problems for travellers and others, this from my point may cause even greater long term
problems.

No one wants to see Australian jobs go off shore, no one in their right mind wants to see
Qantas become another casualty either.

Sitting here as an lay person I think it is strange/odd that Mr Joyce has taken this action
the day following the AGM. Also as a lay person I cannot also wonder what 'golden handshake'
might also be waiting in the wings.

From where I sit there will be no winners in this, only pain and suffering to Qantas, staff (union
& non-union) and the travelling public - their customers!

 

[LiamR]

Joyce didn't make a tough choice - he made a childish one. What did he achieve? He got the government involved.

Put anyone else in the job, and all they would have to do to get the government involved is to ring the PM and tell her "Get involved, or the airline gets shut down tomorrow". Then the PM gets involved etc etc... they can go through all that without shutting down the airline.

If that didn't work, then by all means, take the scorched earth approach and burn the airlines, but give people warning at least.

The bottom line is that Joyce could've got the government involved in this WITHOUT shutting down the airline with no notice and stuffing up the lives of hundreds of thousands of people and costing the country millions as well.

If Qantas went to the government there would be a long drawn out court process. Qantas have had a significant decline in forward bookings, dragging this union mess out further would only amplify that problem.

By stopping all flights, and coming up with a solution TONIGHT. Will enable Qantas to reach agreements with Unions and start recovering as a brand, and as a organisation. Hopefully creating consumer confidence and improve future ticket bookings.

IMHO, Alan Joyce, while this is a tough decision which inconveniences a lot of people, has done the right thing.

 

[Blackadder]

This has nothing to do with AJ's nationallity, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

QF is stuffed (I say this as a long suffering shareholder and a WP - that I pay for, not a company).
QF's biggest problem is the Aussie staff that behave like a lot of overpaid underproductive Aussie public servants. The sooner we have a bunch of polite folk as cabin crew the better - we'll probably have to source them from Singapore, because Australians are far to important and too far full of themselves to even consider providing borderline average service.

I reckon if QF was liqudated tomorrow, my shares might even come "into the money".

Australian used to be a lucky country run by second rate people. Now we have to find first rate people from overseas and what do we do - typical Aussie fashion, cough on thier heads.

This is our problem, our making. I hope we have the fortitude to solve it.

It is a long time since QF was great - we've been sitting on the laurels for so long, the branches and leaves are coming out of out mouths!

Methinks that history will be very kind to AJ - it's about time the union movement got a short sharp - they consume more value than they create!

Ignoring your at best generalisation, and bordering on racist "we'll probably have to source them from Singapore, because Australians are far to important and too far full of themselves to even consider providing borderline average service."
I would hardly call the results AJ got at Aer Lingus first rate, but to each their own.
Unions play a part in protecting the conditions of the members, surely a fair pay for a days work is not a unreasonable expectation.
Labour costs are always going to be high in Australia, and so is the cost of living as soon as those in the Ivory tower realise this and discover they can't set minimum standards in a country, where general living standards are much higher then the closer we come to a compromise between the parties involved.

 

[Moopere]

Neither the unions, nor Joyce can hold the high ground on this. The union demands are outdated - if they really want the conditions they're demanding, they should be lobbying the Australian Government for protectionist measures that would give Qantas the capacity to concede to their demands.

Yes, thats pretty much it.

Alan Joyce on the other has finally shown his true colours and acted like a petulant child. By shutting down Qantas, he is effectively holding the airline to ransom. The only difference is, he is supposed to be looking after Qantas on behalf of his shareholders not his ego. I don't think there are too many shareholders who will appreciate having their company held to ransom by a CEO who is supposed to look after their interests. Particularly, when this whole debacle was so avoidable.

The big shareholders who understand how business actually works are probably ringing him right now in support I'd say.

Yes, some pretty sharp short term pain, very real, no doubt about it. But a longer term bleeding to death is not going to help anyone. I certainly hope that when this is finally over, and QF emerges as a viable company at the end of it (which I sincerely hope it shall) that at least some of the 30K+ workers who are left say "thank you" to the board and to Joyce for the fact that their jobs exist at all.

The only thing that could have resulted in this is government intervention - and if this is what Joyce wanted, why the f*%$ didn't he just pick up the phone and call the PM?

"Hello PM, I need your government to get involved in this now, otherwise I will have to shut down the airline" - A statement like that would 100% get the government involved - without having to cancel all flights WITHOUT WARNING.

Was Joyce just irritated because of the barrage he copped at the AGM? So now his response is to act like a child?

You are making a massive judgement call here ... that politicians are telling you the truth about any back room talk that may have taken place.

We have a union leaning government in place that is going to be required to give said unions an extremely severe backside whipping over the next few days. Everybody involved stands to lose enormous amounts of face. So, it stands to reason that they will be seen to make a 'tough' decision, despite being given 'no warning' and finding themselves in a serious situation.

 

[el_rooto]

QF plat:

"If this is still going on in two weeks I doubt we'll still be around"

 

[Blackadder]

Latest from Fairwork Australia, is that they have requested more witnesses from QF, going to be a longgggggggggg night/morning it seems.

 

[anat0l]

Someone convince me again that there can't possibly be one member on this forum who actually supported death threats against AJ? Because signs of it are subtly surfacing now.

If not that, then a fate second to death, and if not that, pure vitriol in the form of racism.


There's not much more I can add to this discussion. Other than perhaps add my support to the rather paltry neutral position which seeks to see this loggerheads resolved soon, hopefully with minimised detriment to all parties involved. Including customers. Generic statement, yes, but an earnest one.

 

[Simo]

If Qantas went to the government there would be a long drawn out court process. Qantas have had a significant decline in forward bookings, dragging this union mess out further would only amplify that problem.

By stopping all flights, and coming up with a solution TONIGHT. Will enable Qantas to reach agreements with Unions and start recovering as a brand, and as a organisation. Hopefully creating consumer confidence and improve future ticket bookings.

IMHO, Alan Joyce, while this is a tough decision which inconveniences a lot of people, has done the right thing.

Sometimes in business you have to make tough decisions and i hope that we will have no more strikes once the airline get back in the air.

And all the issues are being addressed and sorted once and for all.

I feel sorry for everyone involved because at the end of the day no one is really going to win.

QF have lost massive amount of revenue.

Unions won't get the pay rise they where hoping for.

Staff will make no money so they will suffer lose of wages.

Travelling public will miss events and it will impact business travel as well. I have not flown for the last few weeks because not sure what is happening with QF so am doing a lot of it over the phone and the net.

 

[Gremlin]

DJ likely to be regretting their status match.

quite the contrary would be my belief. The more disruption to the Red Roo and the more inconvenience forced upon the traveling public, the greater the migration to DJ likely to eventuate. If that's supported by the removal of the golden (or platinum) handcuffs through status matches, it can only be to the long term benefit of DJ.

 

[awilcockson]

Wow. What an afternoon.

What to make of this? Well for one thing, as much as I dislike what AJ is doing/has done to Qantas during his tenure as CEO, there is absolutely no doubt that he has cajones the size of boulders.

Shutting down an entire airline (although not Jetstar, remember they are a Qantas company*) is a very brave move, and I can see why he did it to force the governments hand and try and force a resolution.

It was fascinating to see Julia Gillard's door step interview. No screen presence at all and all the evasiveness of a typical politician, exactly when the public wanted open and honest communication. The most interesting part of the speech was that she actually seemed to be favouring QF over the unions. That has to be the first time I've seen a Labor leader not out banging the drum for the unions (disclosure: I voted Labor in the last two elections, god knows who I'm going to vote for in the next one because it won't be Gillard or Abbot).

Can't believe that I just read that the FWA panel (3 people) have just had an adjournment to decide if they should continue on tonight or go to bed and come back tomorrow!!!! What are these people paid for, surely they should be there until a decision is made?



*Only when it suits QF.

edit: from news.com

It may be an all nighter at Fair Work Australia. The three judges have returned and they will hear Qantas' witnesses tonight. There are three witnesses who will each speak for half an hour. After that, the judges will again adjourn "for some hours". Tomorrow the union witnesses will take their turn. Sadly, it does look like flights will not be off the ground tomorrow morning.

 

[el_rooto]

My friend: " I guess there's no real use complaneing about it"