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Qantas FF announcement 20 June - "biggest overhaul" in program history

boomy

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May 10, 2013
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Qantas is now the most expensive program in Oneworld for long haul premium redemptions in award buckets.
And now, the most expensive to earn lifetime Emerald.

There are far more advantageous options out there. But you can only lead someone to the water.... can't make you drink it.
Wait a minute, are you saying QFF is not the best programme in the world?! And I was about to go ahead and book some fully Flexi Y fares to join the LTP race...
 

JohnK

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Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
41,278
The number of points required for Premium cabins and upgradeswill be increasing from 18 September 2019 to better represent the true value of this premium experience
Those travelling on premium cabin awards have had a great run for many years subsidised by those booking economy awards.

It's simply ridiculous to be able to travel business class and outlay ~2 x the points required for economy awards when the cash airfare is at least 3 x more than economy and in many cases >5 x more than economy.

The value in both awards now appear to be closer to each other which to me sounds fairer.

Time to update your signature to reflect progress towards LTP?
I'm at about 21,000 Lifetime SCs. I have no interest in pushing for Lifetime Platinum with Qantas or any other carrier.

I'll try to earn Platimum for as long as possible and then have Lifetime Gold as backup.
 

Bell21

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Jan 11, 2018
Messages
288
I'd be up for reading that!!

As an aside, for some time, I've been mainly focused on points earning that focused on KF (and also VA), with a back-up pool of QF points for rainy days, and had to focus that strategy quite tightly since mid-April AMEX deval (since the Plat card became much less relevant without Explorer link). My 1st reaction to high-level reading of QF changes today was whether I was making a mistake with my revised approach, but then I was like 'nah, it's QF!, stick to the plan!'.

Btw, someone else asked this, but is this a record for number of posts in the time since this thread was posted?!
 
Joined
Oct 11, 2013
Messages
166
My take on the QFF changes yesterday is that almost all of us here on AFF will be negatively impacted by the changes.

Most everyone reading this site is interested in award redemptions in premium cabins and these are not only going to cost more going forward but over time QF can slowly reverse any extra seats they claim to have released as part of these changes. I also would not be surprised if QF carrier surcharges were back to current levels in 2 years time
 

lovetravellingoz

AFF Supporter
Joined
Jul 13, 2006
Messages
5,759
Those travelling on premium cabin awards have had a great run for many years subsidised by those booking economy awards.

It's simply ridiculous to be able to travel business class and outlay ~2 x the points required for economy awards when the cash airfare is at least 3 x more than economy and in many cases >5 x more than economy.
You do appreciate that the profit from J/F revenue tickets is vastly more than Y tickets. As the margins are fatter it meant that there is greater scope to fill the unsold J/F seats with awards at reduced point costs. With QFF though such seats are in short supply.

Paying J/F passengers are arguably subsidising the J/F awards, but to suggest that it is Y redemption doing so is farfetched IMO.

J/F prices are inflated.
 

serfty

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Here is an interesting take - not sure I agree with some of it, but do in general.

Qantas’ multi-million dollar frequent flyers mistake | Herald Sun


Dumb, dumb and indeed even dumber. Qantas is ripping hundreds of millions of dollars off those who are supposedly its most important and most valued customers — its frequent flyers.

By the twin strokes of the pens of Olivia Wirth, the head of the FF program, and CEO Alan Joyce, the value of every one of the billions of customer frequent flyer points has been slashed by 10 per cent.

If you have 500,000 FF points, yesterday they were worth $38,470. Tomorrow they will be worth $34,620. Qantas has snatched away $3850.

If you had 100,000 points, they were worth $7694 yesterday. Tomorrow, they will be worth $6924. You’ve lost $770.

And if you have, say, two million, you would — or should — be really steamed. Qantas has ripped $15,400 out of your electronic account. That’s more than enough to buy a return flight to London — business class of course, or even first in a sale.

<continues>
 

opusman

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Jun 27, 2006
Messages
5,450
I'm sure I read that 150 k points club would actually give you lounge access suggesting it is more on par with Gold.
Extremely unlikely to give unfettered lounge access. If anything I expect it'll be one pass to the QP, along the lines of Silver.
 

opusman

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Jun 27, 2006
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5,450
It's simply ridiculous to be able to travel business class and outlay ~2 x the points required for economy awards when the cash airfare is at least 3 x more than economy and in many cases >5 x more than economy.
For once I agree with JohnK :eek: Premium redemptions are excellent value, not just compared with Y redemptions but with the cash price as well. Doesn't mean I like the price increase but they're still good value compared.

Not sure I agree with AJ about the "value of this premium experience" however!
 

andye

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My take on the QFF changes yesterday is that almost all of us here on AFF will be negatively impacted by the changes.

Most everyone reading this site is interested in award redemptions in premium cabins and these are not only going to cost more going forward but over time QF can slowly reverse any extra seats they claim to have released as part of these changes. I also would not be surprised if QF carrier surcharges were back to current levels in 2 years time
When you factor in the reduced YQ premium redemptions are going up by about 7%-negative yes but hardly Chicken Licken time
 

Pushka

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I am travelling over the next couple of weeks, but as long as I have phone reception when I get a quiet few minutes I will give you a call. More than happy to help out as I know you have a bit going on at the moment. AFF is about sharing after all.
You are so kind! Can wait until you are back in Oz territory though.
 

Max Samuels

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Extremely unlikely to give unfettered lounge access. If anything I expect it'll be one pass to the QP, along the lines of Silver.
I am in interested in seeing this part of the plan when it is revealed in detail. They (QF) have to tread carefully here, because the whole point of SC and the corresponding tiers is that it rewards those who actually fly the airline i.e. buy flights. Some other OW carriers used to offer status based on credit card ownership (I know that CX offered OW sapphire through an AMEX card, which they have now stopped), but apparently these loopholes are being shut down because it was beginning to devalue status - i.e., status was designed for those that fly.

A friend of mine working at QF check-in says that prior to the current upgrade system (whereby it only allocates upgrades 24 hours prior based on status), he would see TONS of bronze FF members with points upgrades to First. That's part of the reason they changed it to the 24 hour thing - because they needed to reward their actual regular paying customers.

So, by offering some kind of yet-to-be-revealed "perks" to the bronze members with a zillion points, they could devalue the perks for the existing elite frequent flyer posse. I am sure that I am not the only one, who every time they enter the SYD/MEL/BNE Dom J lounge, wonders "are there really THAT many plat frequent flyers"? I swear, sometimes the J lounges seem busier than the QC. At certain times of the day I can't even be bothered going into them. So if part of the new points club involves lounge access to more members, it could make an already not very exclusive club even more not exclusive.

Using the conservative rate discussed in the article below, a person with 150k QF points earned exclusively through non-airline related credit card transactions "cost" the credit card company about $2,100 - assuming that's what it paid QF for the points. What we can be almost sure of is that whatever the card company pays QF is certainly less than the MSF, which sits around 1.5% - 3%. Otherwise the whole reward scheme makes no financial sense for the card company.


Now, as we all know, unless by way of some DSC-driven crazy status run, spending $2,100/year directly with the airline is not enough to achieve or maintain Gold - not really even close assuming normal domestic travel patterns.... maybe at 1,000,000 points (approx. $13k) we would be getting close... but that's a lot of points. In a single year. Even with accelerators, like 3x points for certain purchases, we are still talking about annual credit card spends of $300k... which is not most people. And those that DO spend $300k/year on credit cards, are more than likely Mr Important Business Man, and he is probably flying anyway - OR - he is a tradie or builder that charges all of this supplies on his AMEX card (I have a friend that does this) - but I think this is not the normal scenario. This friend of mine takes his whole family, once a year, on a holiday to the US in J and it costs about 1 million points + taxes. Other than that he never flies. He is really organised and books a year out based on what dates are available for award seats.

Anyway, I guess we have to wait and see....
 

Max Samuels

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I’m thoroughly enjoying flying other carriers, including VA domestically which (on most routes) is so far ahead of QF it’s not funny
100% agree. After I had a nasty run-in with a QF lounge agent I have not booked any new travel with them since April... mostly VA with some JQ (i know JQ is still QF but I'm paying less so I still feel as though I am "sticking" it to them). I am still debating whether or not to just stick with LTG and focus on VA....
 

muppet

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Jun 19, 2010
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<snip> .... They (QF) have to tread carefully here, because the whole point of SC and the corresponding tiers is that it rewards those who actually fly the airline i.e. buy flights. .... </snip>
Nah, I don't think they do.

Everyone believes their own personal behaviour is what Qantas should reward with priorities and upgrades and separation from masses.

At the end of the day, compare the margins selling Qantas points vs selling airfares.

As bronze punters continue to endlessly rack up points they can never use they will eventually stop bothering to earn them (like I have with a bunch of meaningless programs - FlyBuys, MyerOne and now Telstra rewards....lame). Qantas is trying to keep them engaged because that's where all the profit is.
 

Max Samuels

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Nah, I don't think they do.

Everyone believes their own personal behaviour is what Qantas should reward with priorities and upgrades and separation from masses.

At the end of the day, compare the margins selling Qantas points vs selling airfares.

As bronze punters continue to endlessly rack up points they can never use they will eventually stop bothering to earn them (like I have with a bunch of meaningless programs - FlyBuys, MyerOne and now Telstra rewards....lame). Qantas is trying to keep them engaged because that's where all the profit is.
Well as I said... will be interesting to see. I'm too young to remember, but I think in the olden days status was actually based on points balance. And they changed that to what it is today, for apparently good reason. Will they reverse course?
 

Ade

Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
259
It may be on future points earned per month / year, not on current saved points..
Yea, I think so too. It's bad that they consider only points earned from there on and not in the past :)
 

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