Online Seat Allocation

[JohnK]

Remember that tools like ExpertFlyer are only able to display the information made available to them from the airline's own systems. If the airline's systems are providing inaccurate information, then that is all that EF can present to you.

And different airlines handle the representation of "allocated", "reserved", "blocked", "available/reserved for premium/elite", and "available" in different ways. So one airline may show seats as "reserved for elites", while another airline may show the same category of seats as "reserved" or even as "allocated" even though they have not been allocated to an individual passenger.

The people running airlines should just grow up and behave like the rest of businesses instead of hanging on to this little game they are playing. I just don't understand what the airlines are trying to hide.

When you pay for tickets to the cinema, opera, any ball games, boxing etc you know upfront what you are paying for and most of the time exactly where you will be seated.

The same should apply to airline tickets. The airlines can still play the game of keeping better seats for higher status FF's but as Joe Nobody I should know that the best seat available to me is 76F and I should be able to reserve this seat at the time of paying and ticketing not waiting until check-in time to determine who gets to the airport first. Based on status it should always be first in first served with best seats. I agree that bulkheads and exit rows should be kept until the last possible moment for obvious reasons.

Higher status FF's (and I mean PS and above for QF) already get first in first served. In theory if I book a flight 4 months before a SG and WP I will have a better seat than them.

 

[BlacKnox]

Re: Business Class Online Seat Allocation

With Air Canada you can select a seat in why or business when you book online with them.

Same with NH (ANA). Maybe JAL too, can't remember now .

 

[Dave Noble]

When you pay for tickets to the cinema, opera, any ball games, boxing etc you know upfront what you are paying for and most of the time exactly where you will be seated.

and often get no choice in the seat assigned , nor can change it .

as Joe Nobody I should know that the best seat available to me is 76F and I should be able to reserve this seat at the time of paying and ticketing

for QF international, you can do ( unless the pre-allocation limit is reached) , just not on the QF website. There are a lot of other options out there including that magical device called a telephone

not waiting until check-in time to determine who gets to the airport first. Based on status it should always be first in first served with best seats. I agree that bulkheads and exit rows should be kept until the last possible moment for obvious reasons.

Whats the obvious reason for keeping exit seats back? AA , for example, offers them at booking time to "elite" members. QF makes them available at booking time to Platinum and higher

In theory if I book a flight 4 months before a SG and WP I will have a better seat than them.

Actually not. If I book a week before the flight, I'll likely be able to get the exit

Dave

 

[JohnK]

When you pay for tickets to the cinema, opera, any ball games, boxing etc you know upfront what you are paying for and most of the time exactly where you will be seated.

and often get no choice in the seat assigned , nor can change it .

Not where I book. You go to the AFL to watch the swans and you get Row 17 seat 4,5 and 6 in the brewongle stand. You go the cricket the same. You go to a play, concert and they show you a seat map and ask where you would like to sit. And far as I know it is the same for boxing. But this is getting off track again.

as Joe Nobody I should know that the best seat available to me is 76F and I should be able to reserve this seat at the time of paying and ticketing

for QF international, you can do ( unless the pre-allocation limit is reached) , just not on the QF website. There are a lot of other options out there including that magical device called a telephone

There is this 20% pre-allocation limit again. Pure garbage. Should be abolished. This is not how to conduct a business.

And that magical device the telephone. Why book flights on the internet but then use the telephone to sort details out. Why can't I sort out everything on the internet.

not waiting until check-in time to determine who gets to the airport first. Based on status it should always be first in first served with best seats. I agree that bulkheads and exit rows should be kept until the last possible moment for obvious reasons.

Whats the obvious reason for keeping exit seats back? AA , for example, offers them at booking time to "elite" members. QF makes them available at booking time to Platinum and higher

Obvious reason for exit rows! Let's offer them to Mrs W@nker a QF Platinum and her 2 children also QF platinum 8 & 9 years of age. They will be great help in an emergency. Or better still why not offer them to Mr & Mrs CL who are both in the 90's. Great Logic there Dave.

In theory if I book a flight 4 months before a SG and WP I will have a better seat than them.

Actually not. If I book a week before the flight, I'll likely be able to get the exit

You are of course assuming that the exit row is the seat everyone wants. Don't think so. You can have it everytime because as far as I am concerned it and bulkheads are the worst rows in cattle class. But hey what do I know I am just a QF PS nobody.

 

[Dave Noble]

Obvious reason for exit rows! Let's offer them to Mrs W@nker a QF Platinum and her 2 children also QF platinum 8 & 9 years of age. They will be great help in an emergency. Or better still why not offer them to Mr & Mrs CL who are both in the 90's. Great Logic there Dave.

Of course, you know everything, I forgot. On the AA site , for example, if having AA GLD/PLT/EXP status , the exit rows are available for assignment. If this row is selected, another window comes up in which the rules for exit row assignment are given and it requires you to confirm that you meet the requirements. At the airport they will verify that the person is ok

When booking with QF, I phone up QF and they just remind about the rules for exits before getting them assigned by seating. Exit row seating pre-assignment is a platinum benefit

The boarding card readers at international for QF, ime, bleep when an exit row seat BP is inserted and a Y/N question appears to confirm that the person is suitable to be seated there.

There are a lot of situations where seating is offered elsewehere, e.g. cinemas in UK and La Premiere screens in Hoyts in Au where seats are assigned, but there is no choice on seats

Also, in airlines, BMI , on their tiny fares, allocate a seat and the passenger cannot change it at all. What you get pre-allocated is what you get.

Limiting pre-assignment to a percentage plus OW status members, helps ensure that the airline can seat families et al together

Dave

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

Some airlines will allow anyone to pre-select bulkhead and exit rows. Of course if you are unsuitable for exit rows you could be moved at check in, and if too many pax with babies are on the flight you could lose bulkhead row.

There are a number of reasons why cant allow everyone to pre-select seating. Retaining ability to seat families or groups together is one reason but there are others. Eg how do you deal with oversold situation - on some flights airline might sell 120% of physical seats? What about where an aircraft type (with different layout and/or number of seats) is substituted in between booking and departure? Family with infant books late when bulkhead already gone? Etc.

 

[JohnK]

Of course, you know everything, I forgot.

That is not true. I know very little and I am trying to learn but there are too many obstacles placed in the way.

The boarding card readers at international for QF, ime, bleep when an exit row seat BP is inserted and a Y/N question appears to confirm that the person is suitable to be seated there.

In my opinion a little too late to start shifting people around who are not suitable. And even worse now where you can bypass physical check-in by using OLCI.

There are a lot of situations where seating is offered elsewehere, e.g. cinemas in UK and La Premiere screens in Hoyts in Au where seats are assigned, but there is no choice on seats

Maybe there are but I have not been to any of these places.

Also, in airlines, BMI , on their tiny fares, allocate a seat and the passenger cannot change it at all. What you get pre-allocated is what you get.

I am talking about QF. Full service airline. Not sure about BMI as I have never flown with them, and if I ever did fly with them and they did this to me then I wouldn't fly with them again.

 

[Dave Noble]

In my opinion a little too late to start shifting people around who are not suitable. And even worse now where you can bypass physical check-in by using OLCI.

Fortunately various airlines have a different opinion. You cannot bypass the boarding card reader at the gate on QF . Moving people in this case, is likely to be v v easy; just ask just about anyone sat in a middle seat if they'd like to move to an exit; spect that they'd all accept

Also, in airlines, BMI , on their tiny fares, allocate a seat and the passenger cannot change it at all. What you get pre-allocated is what you get.

I am talking about QF. Full service airline. Not sure about BMI as I have never flown with them, and if I ever did fly with them and they did this to me then I wouldn't fly with them again.[/quote]

So what! so you are taking about QF? There are a lot of other airlines and you are saying that they should be like some of the others in offering allocated seats; BMI is a Star Alliance carrier and has introduced that on their lowest "Tiny" fares and is part of the terms that you agree to when purchasing that fare. Whether you'd go into a sulk about it and not fly again is irrelevent, the ability to explicitly choose seats has been removed from lowest fares

Differing models appeal to different airlines; you seem to dislike the AA model where all seats are available, yet bemoan QF for not allowing all to be allocated.

Remember, if QFs approach doesn't appeal , there are other carriers to choose from

Dave

 

[JohnK]

There are a number of reasons why cant allow everyone to pre-select seating. Retaining ability to seat families or groups together is one reason but there are others.

Families with kids I can understand, but groups I couldn't care less, if they are going to spend a month together they can sit apart for a flight.

Eg how do you deal with oversold situation - on some flights airline might sell 120% of physical seats?

Easy I booked and paid for my ticket before you therefore I get to go and you stay behind if there is no room. Not this stupidity of who turns up to the airport gets the seat and if you turn up late you get left behind.

What about where an aircraft type (with different layout and/or number of seats) is substituted in between booking and departure?

No idea, has never happened to me.

Family with infant books late when bulkhead already gone? Etc.

So if am stupid enough to be seated in bulkhead row I should give up my seat to sit in 76F just because someone decided at the last minute that they would be on my flight.

I am just about to book my New Year's flights for SYD-SIN via woop-woop and I will be allocated a seat. This will be a really good seat that I want to travel in. I expect to be in that seat when I fly on Boxing Day. Anything else, other than upgrade to J or F, would be totally unacceptable.

I can't help but laugh when some crazy situations arise on flights. Husband and wife travelling together, boyfriend and girlfriend, whatever. It is a 747 and one is sitting in 36F and the other is sitting is 76E. When this type of situation occurs they expect to be seated together at the front of economy, never at the back. If you want to sit together then sacrifice the better seat and sit at the back. You can't have everything.

 

[Dave Noble]

Easy I booked and paid for my ticket before you therefore I get to go and you stay behind if there is no room. Not this stupidity of who turns up to the airport gets the seat and if you turn up late you get left behind.

The methods employed to determine involuntary denied boarding have more thought put into it than that. Someone who booked a long time in advance, with no or little status is much more likely to be IDBd than a OW Emerald on a Full fare Y ticket booked 2 days before the flight .

No idea, has never happened to me.
.

Because it has never happened to you means that the whole thing can be ignore then can it?

So if am stupid enough to be seated in bulkhead row I should give up my seat to sit in 76F just because someone decided at the last minute that they would be on my flight.

Yes, if that person happens to have an infant needing the bassinet position.

I am just about to book my New Year's flights for SYD-SIN via woop-woop and I will be allocated a seat. This will be a really good seat that I want to travel in. I expect to be in that seat when I fly on Boxing Day. Anything else, other than upgrade to J or F, would be totally unacceptable.

Be prepared disappointment then. Seat assignments are NOT guaranteed and can be changed by the airline without recourse to you

Now where is the ignore option on this forum, since I can't seem to find it?

Dave

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

There are a number of reasons why cant allow everyone to pre-select seating. Retaining ability to seat families or groups together is one reason but there are others.

Families with kids I can understand, but groups I couldn't care less, if they are going to spend a month together they can sit apart for a flight.

Eg how do you deal with oversold situation - on some flights airline might sell 120% of physical seats?

Easy I booked and paid for my ticket before you therefore I get to go and you stay behind if there is no room. Not this stupidity of who turns up to the airport gets the seat and if you turn up late you get left behind.

If you do that then the airlines couldnt oversell at all (since they couldnt reallocate seats) and fares would go up - to make up for the cost of any profits the airlines currently make on oversell (extra revenue less the cost of compensation). That doesnt seem sensible to me.

What about where an aircraft type (with different layout and/or number of seats) is substituted in between booking and departure?

No idea, has never happened to me.

It's happened many times to me, on several different airlines. Sometimes by careful planning you can come out ahead - eg choosing a seat on a flight that is expected to be non-refitted NZ 747 such that if it changes to a refitted 747 you get a premium economy seat instead, or where there is a chance of 3-class a/c on a 2-class route picking optimum seat number to get a better seat. However, sometimes you lose and get a worse seat. Airlines that dont preallocate (or dont preallocate too many seats) may take the opportunity to shift pax around in these situations so that their elite and high fare pax are looked after.

Family with infant books late when bulkhead already gone? Etc.

So if am stupid enough to be seated in bulkhead row I should give up my seat to sit in 76F just because someone decided at the last minute that they would be on my flight.

Would you rather airlines force all families with infants to book earlier than everyone else? That would seem to be a good way to lose revenue.

I am just about to book my New Year's flights for SYD-SIN via woop-woop and I will be allocated a seat. This will be a really good seat that I want to travel in. I expect to be in that seat when I fly on Boxing Day. Anything else, other than upgrade to J or F, would be totally unacceptable.

In most cases you get what you ask for, but sometimes you dont. Same applies no matter what seating pre-selection method you use. The only way to guarantee your particular seat no matter what is to have your own private jet, or to be pilot or crew.

I can't help but laugh when some crazy situations arise on flights. Husband and wife travelling together, boyfriend and girlfriend, whatever. It is a 747 and one is sitting in 36F and the other is sitting is 76E. When this type of situation occurs they expect to be seated together at the front of economy, never at the back. If you want to sit together then sacrifice the better seat and sit at the back. You can't have everything.

I agree some folk have unreasonable requests to move just because they werent as organised. If I'm asked to switch seats I'll assess on its merits. If it doesnt matter too much then I'll happily switch, if not then I'll politely decline.

 

[JohnK]

There are a number of reasons why cant allow everyone to pre-select seating. Retaining ability to seat families or groups together is one reason but there are others.

Families with kids I can understand, but groups I couldn't care less, if they are going to spend a month together they can sit apart for a flight.

Eg how do you deal with oversold situation - on some flights airline might sell 120% of physical seats?

Easy I booked and paid for my ticket before you therefore I get to go and you stay behind if there is no room. Not this stupidity of who turns up to the airport gets the seat and if you turn up late you get left behind.

If you do that then the airlines couldnt oversell at all (since they couldnt reallocate seats) and fares would go up - to make up for the cost of any profits the airlines currently make on oversell (extra revenue less the cost of compensation). That doesnt seem sensible to me.

But is sounds sensible to give a seat away that was booked 8 months ago and keep someone that booked 2 days ago just because they can get to the airport quicker or happen to be in a faster check-in lane. Not really interested in their stinking $300 compensation when I have connecting flights at the other end and accommodation booked.

What about where an aircraft type (with different layout and/or number of seats) is substituted in between booking and departure?

No idea, has never happened to me.

It's happened many times to me, on several different airlines. Sometimes by careful planning you can come out ahead - eg choosing a seat on a flight that is expected to be non-refitted NZ 747 such that if it changes to a refitted 747 you get a premium economy seat instead, or where there is a chance of 3-class a/c on a 2-class route picking optimum seat number to get a better seat. However, sometimes you lose and get a worse seat. Airlines that dont preallocate (or dont preallocate too many seats) may take the opportunity to shift pax around in these situations so that their elite and high fare pax are looked after.

When I said "No idea", I meant I haven't thought about what to do in that situation. It has never occurred to me.

Family with infant books late when bulkhead already gone? Etc.

So if am stupid enough to be seated in bulkhead row I should give up my seat to sit in 76F just because someone decided at the last minute that they would be on my flight.

Would you rather airlines force all families with infants to book earlier than everyone else? That would seem to be a good way to lose revenue.

I wouldn't take a bulkhead row anyway but I am sure there are people that do. What happens when all bulkheads are full of kids and there are still families with kids on the flight. No bulkhead, no bassinet, just baby on lap. So it is possible to fly with baby on lap.

I am just about to book my New Year's flights for SYD-SIN via woop-woop and I will be allocated a seat. This will be a really good seat that I want to travel in. I expect to be in that seat when I fly on Boxing Day. Anything else, other than upgrade to J or F, would be totally unacceptable.

In most cases you get what you ask for, but sometimes you dont. Same applies no matter what seating pre-selection method you use. The only way to guarantee your particular seat no matter what is to have your own private jet, or to be pilot or crew.

It can happen. It hasn't yet. No point worrying about it. There is nothing wrong with my suggestion. But some spoilt WP's think that they can book 2 days before flight and score premium seat in economy that I have already booked 8 months ago. Totally illlogical and wrong. If you think that is logical then you are entitled to your opinion. I disagree.

I can't help but laugh when some crazy situations arise on flights. Husband and wife travelling together, boyfriend and girlfriend, whatever. It is a 747 and one is sitting in 36F and the other is sitting is 76E. When this type of situation occurs they expect to be seated together at the front of economy, never at the back. If you want to sit together then sacrifice the better seat and sit at the back. You can't have everything.

I agree some folk have unreasonable requests to move just because they werent as organised. If I'm asked to switch seats I'll assess on its merits. If it doesnt matter too much then I'll happily switch, if not then I'll politely decline.

But there are people out there that expect to have everything. Sorry can't help them. A few hours apart might do them good anyway.

Not intended for anyone in particular but this is a discussion board and if you don't like my opinions or suggestions then just press the ignore button and don't bother reading or answering my posts. Don't insult me though. You will only get one chance.

 

[Dave Noble]

But is sounds sensible to give a seat away that was booked 8 months ago and keep someone that booked 2 days ago just because they can get to the airport quicker or happen to be in a faster check-in lane. Not really interested in their stinking $300 compensation when I have connecting flights at the other end and accommodation booked.

Hmmm, which one has paid the most money for the flight. If you were a company and had one customer paying $300 and another paying $1500 , which one would you be more eager to accommodate

What happens when all bulkheads are full of kids and there are still families with kids on the flight. No bulkhead, no bassinet, just baby on lap. So it is possible to fly with baby on lap.

Only passengers with infants get to trump on bassinets. If all bassinet positions are taken, then I believe that the request for bassinet would be declined and the person would either (a) choose another flight or (b) take a regular seat . even so, a normal passenger would be evicted for a passenger with infant booking that seat. One good reason not to take 4A in F

Not intended for anyone in particular but this is a discussion board and if you don't like my opinions or suggestions then just press the ignore button and don't bother reading or answering my posts. Don't insult me though. You will only get one chance.

The words Pot , Kettle and Black spring to mind.

QF operates in the manner it does quite well imo; they manage yield well and rarely have to bump passengers and enable families and groups to sit together where possibl. Seems a pretty decent operation. Other airlines have other methods ; each method is beneficial to some and has drawbacks to others

Dave

 

[serfty]

Re: Business Class Online Seat Allocation

... This is the first time I will be flying in paid business class and I have never booked business class with any other airlines. Is online seat allocation standard practice when flying business class with other airlines?

Getting back to the original topic (as above), yes, some airlines choose to allow online seat selection requests for business class bookings on their web booking engines, others do not.

Qantas are one of the airlines that don't have this seat selection request facility available when booking online, and, IMO, this is because they choose not to at this time.

However, I feel that Qantas are moving towards making this facility available, if for no other reason than to decrease the usage of telephone booking staff in seat allocation, theby saving money.

In relation to this thread's Topic, you are more likely to have your seating request granted in J class than in WHY.

IMO, it really is a relatively simple matter to book online and then call Qantas to make a request for seating allocation.

 

[QF WP]

This has been an excellent discussion from both sides of the debate - it certainly has stretched my horizons on the subject. Keep it up guys.

 

[NM]

Re: Business Class Online Seat Allocation

IMO, it really is a relatively simple matter to book online and then call Qantas to make a request for seating allocation.

My business class bookings are all done by our corp TA and they always do the seat allocation for me. If I am not happy with it, or they cannot get access to seats that may be reserved for elite FF's then I just pick up the phone and call QF. Its never been a problem to me.

 

[JohnK]

Re: Business Class Online Seat Allocation

IMO, it really is a relatively simple matter to book online and then call Qantas to make a request for seating allocation.

My business class bookings are all done by our corp TA and they always do the seat allocation for me. If I am not happy with it, or they cannot get access to seats that may be reserved for elite FF's then I just pick up the phone and call QF. Its never been a problem to me.

One of my points was why push as many people as possible to make online bookings yet have them call QF to get seats assignments changed.

QF are promoting/encouraging an unnecessary two step process when all that is needed is if you book on the internet make changes on the internet. Very simple. Even simpler programming change. It is also logical.

And no I don't want to go to another airline. And I don't really care why QF are not interested in implementing it. QF should just get their act together and stop playing games. Inferior airlines, imo, like Air Canada and Air NZ have this feature then so should QF.

 

[Dave Noble]

Re: Business Class Online Seat Allocation

One of my points was why push as many people as possible to make online bookings yet have them call QF to get seats assignments changed.

Most people , I posit, don't know or don't care and the number of calls is probably quite small

QF are promoting/encouraging an unnecessary two step process when all that is needed is if you book on the internet make changes on the internet. Very simple. Even simpler programming change. It is also logical.

And no I don't want to go to another airline. And I don't really care why QF are not interested in implementing it. QF should just get their act together and stop playing games. Inferior airlines, imo, like Air Canada and Air NZ have this feature then so should QF.

They arn't promoting a 2 step process; only those that care about specific seats will call. The fact that you want it is hardly a reason why they should invest the money doing it ( unless you are prepared to pay the IT bill to have it done )

Dave

 

[NM]

Re: Business Class Online Seat Allocation

One of my points was why push as many people as possible to make online bookings yet have them call QF to get seats assignments changed.

I don't make my business class bookings on-line so its not an issue to me. I would be happy to make seating allocations on-line, but am also happy to do it on the phone.

 

[acampbel]

If it ain't broke ...

From my perspective of 30+ years of airline travel, I would have to say that seat allocations are definitely an arcane art.

The reservation system has to be malleable enough to accept 3 or 4 classes of travel, a myriad of fare types, no-shows, late comers, standby lurkers, and the fact that most passengers would like the best seat available.

I have a personal preference for Forward/Aisle seats (as do most I presume) and that is invariably what I get. Not right at the front of course, but as I only scrape through at Silver Status each year and almost never pay full economy rate, this is to be expected.

As far as preallocation goes, I will be travelling to the UK with the family (2 x points, 2 x fares) and know that Qantas will find seats for us together, almost regardless of when we check in. They are able to do this because no-one else is fiddling about with seating arrangements, which gives them the flexibility to look after high-value customers and special needs groups. There are never any guarantees (especially if you get the last seat on the plane) but overall I have no gripe with the way Qantas handles this procedure. I have certainly been the beneficiary of queue-jumping on standby, and have a better than average chance of scoring a vacant seat beside me.

But if this thread is any guide, I would not be in favour of passengers reserving seats before the flight opens. Too much us vs. them and "I was there first!". Best to let the umpire decide ... because they know which side their bread is buttered.


Cheers,

AC