Oneworld Classic Flight Reward Discussion - The Definitive Thread

[05flyer]

I'm looking at booking PE on AA72 (SYD-LAX) on Tuesday 29/4 via Qantas using points, cost of 81,300. But the little info icon states my flight will be in economy? There are several other AA72 flights in PE that week with exactly the same details. What on earth does it mean?

Most likely a tech glitch - occasionally the info icons get the details wrong for non-QF flights (e.g. listing a business recliner seat for an economy flight).

As long its listed as a 'Premium Economy Reward', and it lets you book and ticket the flight, shouldn't be any further problems.

 

[djkelly69]

I am going to have to disagree - that notation is usually used when you are booking 2 or more flights, and it definitely means the indicated leg will be in a lower class despite the overall headline higher booking class.

It definitely sounds like a glitch as it obviously makes no sense when used for a single flight, but I am not convinced you will get what you are expecting.

 

[ozflier]

I've had problems accessing reward seats Vancouver to LAX later this year.
There are partner award seats on American Airlines available for a non stop flight on the right time and day.
However, the Call Centre do not recognize these as they only offer Westjet seats which,to be fair, are avaiable. The itinerary is a OWA so a Westjet flight would cancel the OWA and return it to a standard award!
I've rang twice to no avail.
Is anyone aware if the agents are correct - ie if an AA award is available as a partner award, it can't be used as part of a Qantas award on the YVR-LAX sector because Westjet gets preference?

 

[Amanad78]

Currently trying to book our final leg of our OWA we have 5 stops, 4 transits and 1 surface sector. Qantas are trying to say we have more than 5 stops. Please confirm we are within the rules!

SIN - HEL STOP 1
HEL - BKK STOP 2
BKK - (KUL) - (SYD) - BNE STOP 3
BNE - (SYD) - KUL STOP 4
KUL - CDG STOP 5
BCN - (HEL) - SIN END

5 Stops, 1 surface sector, 4 transits

 

[Mr H]

Currently trying to book our final leg of our OWA we have 5 stops, 4 transits and 1 surface sector. Qantas are trying to say we have more than 5 stops. Please confirm we are within the rules!

SIN - HEL STOP 1
HEL - BKK STOP 2
BKK - (KUL) - (SYD) - BNE STOP 3
BNE - (SYD) - KUL STOP 4
KUL - CDG STOP 5
BCN - (HEL) - SIN END

5 Stops, 1 surface sector, 4 transits

Have you asked them where the stops are? That should help to find the problem.

 

[Amanad78]

Have you asked them where the stops are? That should help to find the problem.

They think the surface sector is the problem.

Also forgot to mention above we are flying AY, MH and QF. Also, taxes paid in Singapore $.

The last person who helped us via messenger was in NZ and had no problems with the currency, and was aware of reticketing issues with MH and was really knowledgeable

This is the current response:

...thank you for the information you provided. We've looked into adding the extra flights to your booking.

Keep in mind that the added flights will surpass the maximum stopovers allowed for your Oneworld itinerary. You can have up to 5 stopovers, which includes a surface sector—this is when you disembark in one city and embark in another.

The points needed for the additional flights would be 605500 per person. Please let us know your thoughts on this.

 

[Captain Halliday]

They think the surface sector is the problem.

Also forgot to mention above we are flying AY, MH and QF. Also, taxes paid in Singapore $.

The last person who helped us via messenger was in NZ and had no problems with the currency, and was aware of reticketing issues with MH and was really knowledgeable

This is the current response:

...thank you for the information you provided. We've looked into adding the extra flights to your booking.

Keep in mind that the added flights will surpass the maximum stopovers allowed for your Oneworld itinerary. You can have up to 5 stopovers, which includes a surface sector—this is when you disembark in one city and embark in another.

The points needed for the additional flights would be 605500 per person. Please let us know your thoughts on this.

HUACA

 

[Mr H]

They think the surface sector is the problem.

Also forgot to mention above we are flying AY, MH and QF. Also, taxes paid in Singapore $.

The last person who helped us via messenger was in NZ and had no problems with the currency, and was aware of reticketing issues with MH and was really knowledgeable

This is the current response:

...thank you for the information you provided. We've looked into adding the extra flights to your booking.

Keep in mind that the added flights will surpass the maximum stopovers allowed for your Oneworld itinerary. You can have up to 5 stopovers, which includes a surface sector—this is when you disembark in one city and embark in another.

The points needed for the additional flights would be 605500 per person. Please let us know your thoughts on this.

I am not sure why you are dealing with them by text messages/email - you should be calling their call centre and asking them as they are the people who actually make the bookings. If you don't get help from one agent then HUACA.

 

[djkelly69]

The call centre (and 'message centre' in this case) like to try and make plausible-sounding reasons for why bookings fail, but in reality they are completely made up.

I don't think the surface sector/stopovers is the issue in this case.

If I had to guess, and given how close you are to the 35k mile limit, I would think the system is calculating the miles slightly differently and that is the issue.

 

[DC3]

HUACA

 

[N860CR]

It looks fine. Is there availability CDG-HEL instead of BCN-HEL? It could be a millage issue. That will also kill their argument regarding the surface sector. Their argument is wrong, but fighting them can be more effort than it's worth (for the sake of a quick BCN-CDG flight).

 

[Amanad78]

It looks fine. Is there availability CDG-HEL instead of BCN-HEL? It could be a millage issue. That will also kill their argument regarding the surface sector. Their argument is wrong, but fighting them can be more effort than it's worth (for the sake of a quick BCN-CDG flight).

Yes, this is what we can do if necessary

 

[Amanad78]

I am not sure why you are dealing with them by text messages/email - you should be calling their call centre and asking them as they are the people who actually make the bookings. If you don't get help from one agent then HUACA.

The call centre couldn't help last time after multiple calls, and the message centre could help and made the bookings by calling me, taking payment etc. Just found it easier

 

[There'sOnlyOneJimmy]

Currently trying to book our final leg of our OWA we have 5 stops, 4 transits and 1 surface sector. Qantas are trying to say we have more than 5 stops. Please confirm we are within the rules!

SIN - HEL STOP 1
HEL - BKK STOP 2
BKK - (KUL) - (SYD) - BNE STOP 3
BNE - (SYD) - KUL STOP 4
KUL - CDG STOP 5
BCN - (HEL) - SIN END

5 Stops, 1 surface sector, 4 transits

Assuming that the transits are all strictly less than 24 hours…, I agree with @djkelly69 that it may well be a mileage problem.
Great Circle Mapper shows you within 40 miles of the max allowed, but the problem is that QF don’t use GCM to calculate the milage, they use something else (sorry, can’t remember what it is). Consequently there can be differences in the milage calculations of every sector. These differences can be positive or negative, and generally they are relatively small. But over a number of sectors they can accumulate, and when you are operating near the limit, can push you over the max.
If you call again, I suggest you ask the operator to go through the sector distances and compare with what you’re getting from GCM. Unfortunately, this will only confirm that your itinerary goes over max mileage- the QF distance is final, and the GCM distance is irrelevant to them (sad face). But at least you’ll know what the problem is for sure.

Edit: fix typo - 24 hours, not 4…

 

[Warragul]

I am not sure why you are dealing with them by text messages/email - you should be calling their call centre and asking them as they are the people who actually make the bookings. If you don't get help from one agent then HUACA.

True enough, but I've found on occasion the service supplied to modify bookings via Messenger, which was referred to not text or email, to be less painful than the call centre. Slower yes and not always succesful, but when it works it eliminates a lot of phone call hold time especially if the phone call connected to Fiji or the Philippines.

 

[Amanad78]

Assuming that the transits are all strictly less than 4 hours…, I agree with @djkelly69 that it may well be a mileage problem.
Great Circle Mapper shows you within 40 miles of the max allowed, but the problem is that QF don’t use GCM to calculate the milage, they use something else (sorry, can’t remember what it is). Consequently there can be differences in the milage calculations of every sector. These differences can be positive or negative, and generally they are relatively small. But over a number of sectors they can accumulate, and when you are operating near the limit, can push you over the max.
If you call again, I suggest you ask the operator to go through the sector distances and compare with what you’re getting from GCM. Unfortunately, this will only confirm that your itinerary goes over max mileage- the QF distance is final, and the GCM distance is irrelevant to them (sad face). But at least you’ll know what the problem is for sure.

Thanks, yes, this would be interesting to look at.

Would be good to know how the calculate the mileage

 

[Cessna 180]

Qantas are still claiming this rubbish? Wow, thought they fixed up their systems but it's evident they haven't.

There's no (or shouldn't be a) reason a classic reward seat that is showing online isn't able to be added to an existing classic rewards itinerary. None.

I had to deal with this 2 years ago and almost pulled out hairs due to the time spent on it and the resulting frustration.

Not a Oneworld 318 redemption, however a one way booking with QF so relevant to this point.

PRG-HEL-HKG-MEL.
I wish to change the departure from PRG to KRK. A fairly simple ask I would have thought. Four phone calls now and they have all told me the same thing: available for new bookings only. The last one told me she would waive any change fees and refund the first leg and create a new booking for the KRK HEL leg but it would be on a separate PNR. I think the first to calls were to Africa and the last two were Fiji.

They have all been adamant this is not possible to change. The third one said she would put me on hold and went and sought further guidance.

 

[DC3]

Unfortunately, this will only confirm that your itinerary goes over max mileage- the QF distance is final, and the GCM distance is irrelevant to them (sad face).

Computer says ‘No’?

 

[RealtimeY]

FYI these are the distances that the QF calculator is spitting out behind the scenes. As said earlier on, it's a few extra miles each sector throwing you over.

Origin	Destination	Distance
SIN	HEL	5,767​
HEL	BKK	4,922​
BKK	KUL	749​
KUL	SYD	4,115​
SYD	BNE	468​
BNE	SYD	468​
SYD	KUL	4,115​
KUL	CDG	6,498​
CDG	BCN	535​
BCN	HEL	1,637​
HEL	SIN	5,767​
		35,041​

 

[There'sOnlyOneJimmy]

FYI these are the distances that the QF calculator is spitting out behind the scenes. As said earlier on, it's a few extra miles each sector throwing you over.

Origin	Destination	Distance
SIN	HEL	5,767​
HEL	BKK	4,922​
BKK	KUL	749​
KUL	SYD	4,115​
SYD	BNE	468​
BNE	SYD	468​
SYD	KUL	4,115​
KUL	CDG	6,498​
CDG	BCN	535​
BCN	HEL	1,637​
HEL	SIN	5,767​
		35,041​

It looks like the main culprit is the two KUL-SYD / SYD-KUL sectors. 4055 miles per QF Vs 4115 per GCM, so 60 extra miles each, for a combined 120 mile blow-out…