Oneworld Classic Flight Reward Discussion - The Definitive Thread

[redbaron]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

I ended up booking a cheap last minute fare to Bergen and back with China Southern... I'll see how that goes

 

[sergeyvzn]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

I ended up booking a cheap last minute fare to Bergen and back with China Southern... I'll see how that goes

Don't expect too much from China Southern -

 

[serfty]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Can anyone comment on change fees for these fares?

I did answer you in post #1380

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/...award-140k-280k-420k-8228-35.html#post1047525

 

[MrHanky]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

No, that is not the case.

It may have been if the itinerary included travel in the USA, but without that the US DOT exception can not apply, so IATA 302 applies in full and the MSC is recalculated for each individual journey (stopover to stopover).

Hey Serfty- thanks for your reply!

OK - if I changed the YUL stop to be in JFK instead (YUL is not my ultimate destination in Canada, and I have some Aeroplan miles which I could use from JFK instead of YUL...), this would mean my itinerary now involves a stop in the USA.

What rules would then apply to my itinerary?

Thanks,

 

[serfty]

Hey Serfty- thanks for your reply!

OK - if I changed the YUL stop to be in JFK instead (YUL is not my ultimate destination in Canada, and I have some Aeroplan miles which I could use from JFK instead of YUL...), this would mean my itinerary now involves a stop in the USA.

What rules would then apply to my itinerary?

Thanks,

If you can change the routing to have travel through, from or within the USA then the baggage allowance for the first journey based on marking carrier would apply for the entire trip.

See here for examples: Most Significant Carrier (MSC) - For Multi-carrier Journey - Cathay Pacific Australia

Regulations.gov

 

[MrHanky]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

If you can change the routing to have travel through, from or within the USA then the baggage allowance for the first journey based on marking carrier would apply for the entire trip.

The more I read about baggage, the more confused I get...

Involving the USA is no hassle for me (minus the fact that TSA are jerks), so my proposed itinerary is

MEL-KUL-HKG(stop)-ICN(stop)-LHR(stop)-JFK(stop)-ORY(stop)-HKG-MEL

with sectors:
MEL-KUL - MH (40kg)
KUL-HKG,HKG-ICN,ORY-HKG-MEL - CX (30kg)
ICN-LHR,LHR-JFK,JFK-ORY - BA (3x32kg)

For reasons which should be fairly obvious, I'd like BA's baggage allowance on my entire journey.

From what I can establish, under some hybrid of DOT/IATA 302, because BA is the first carrier crossing IATA zones, it's the MSC? Because of the US DOT, I should then get this baggage allowance for my entire journey? *confused*.

EDIT: I should add I did try and understand this scenario based on those links, the DOT regulations looks like some nice bedtime reading and the Cathay pacific example is much more simplistic.

 

[Danger]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

The more I read about baggage, the more confused I get...

Involving the USA is no hassle for me (minus the fact that TSA are jerks), so my proposed itinerary is

MEL-KUL-HKG(stop)-ICN(stop)-LHR(stop)-JFK(stop)-ORY(stop)-HKG-MEL

with sectors:
MEL-KUL - MH (40kg)
KUL-HKG,HKG-ICN,ORY-HKG-MEL - CX (30kg)
ICN-LHR,LHR-JFK,JFK-ORY - BA (3x32kg)

For reasons which should be fairly obvious, I'd like BA's baggage allowance on my entire journey.

From what I can establish, under some hybrid of DOT/IATA 302, because BA is the first carrier crossing IATA zones, it's the MSC? Because of the US DOT, I should then get this baggage allowance for my entire journey? *confused*.

EDIT: I should add I did try and understand this scenario based on those links, the DOT regulations looks like some nice bedtime reading and the Cathay pacific example is much more simplistic.

Yes, you'll have the BA baggage allowance from the ICN-LHR sector under the MSC rules.

 

[JohnK]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Another thought to avoid the 2 stopover rule - what if I changed the end to NRT-SYD-xMEL-HKG? Would the open jaw between SYD and MEL count as a prohibited second MEL stopover?

That should be fine. Stopover point should be first airport in open jaw and then surface sector.

 

[madrooster]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

The more I read about baggage, the more confused I get...

Involving the USA is no hassle for me (minus the fact that TSA are jerks), so my proposed itinerary is

MEL-KUL-HKG(stop)-ICN(stop)-LHR(stop)-JFK(stop)-ORY(stop)-HKG-MEL

with sectors:
MEL-KUL - MH (40kg)
KUL-HKG,HKG-ICN,ORY-HKG-MEL - CX (30kg)
ICN-LHR,LHR-JFK,JFK-ORY - BA (3x32kg)

For reasons which should be fairly obvious, I'd like BA's baggage allowance on my entire journey.

From what I can establish, under some hybrid of DOT/IATA 302, because BA is the first carrier crossing IATA zones, it's the MSC? Because of the US DOT, I should then get this baggage allowance for my entire journey? *confused*.

EDIT: I should add I did try and understand this scenario based on those links, the DOT regulations looks like some nice bedtime reading and the Cathay pacific example is much more simplistic.

Your furthest ticketed destination is in the US (JFK). This means US DOT exemption regulations override the IATA 302 resolution (resolutions are not regulations, IATA is also not a law-maker). IATA 302 is effectively out the window as soon as your furthest ticketed destination is in the US. North America does not count, it must be the US. For example, if you replaced your JFK stop with a MEX stop, then US DOT exemption regulations do not apply.

Under the US DOT rules, the first marketing carrier (not operating carrier as specified in IATA 302), assuming they publish tariffs for the US (ie. they publish baggage rules for the US), gets to pick one of two options:

1. The first marketing carrier's rules apply to the entire ticket
2. The first marketing carrier elects to have the MSC's rules apply to the entire ticket

Which option a carrier has elected, to my knowledge, is not publicly published anywhere (ATPCO are the ones who publish it). A GDS will tell you who's policy does apply though.

In your case, your first marketing carrier is MH. From memory (I could be potentially wrong, every airline picks something different), MH chooses to apply their rules to the entire ticket.

MH rules: Book & Plan - Baggage - Checked Baggage | Malaysia Airlines

MH's US baggage rules (even though they no longer fly there), are 2 x 32kg. This should be the allowance that applies to your entire ticket.

Hypothetically speaking, say MH did not publish US baggage rules, then the second marketing carrier's US baggage rules apply (in your case, CX).

 

[geost]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Well, here goes. My first post. Normally a shy retiring type I feel very much obliged to post this if only to repay in some small way the people on this thread who have put up so much useful information.


Being on the wrong side of the biblically allotted life span, SWMBO and I decided late in 2013 that if we were ever going to use the 600K or so points we had accumulated then 2014 was the GO year. She will only travel J class (which is strange as once upon a time she was a hostie on TAA DC3s).

Anyway, One World Classic Award 280K seemed the best bet. I started by reading the QF web site and downloaded or copied everything relevant that I could find on this AFF website. I put it all into a word document to enable quick searching on particular points. Then I set up spreadsheets to tabulate and align various seat availability and routing options and spent many frustrating hours searching for seats using mainly the QF multi-stop and the CX Asia Miles online search tools. We were looking to visit Europe (via Amsterdam for a cruise), UK and Ireland in June-July 2014. We wouldn’t have minded coming back via South Africa or Canada but didn’t particularly want to enter the US. Hen’s teeth are easier to find than J class seats on CX across the Pacific so we gave that away. We finally came up with (departing early June):
BNE-HKG-HYD (CX146, 09:05-18:05 & CX649, 21:10-00:10 +1; 2-day break);
HYD-LHR-AMS (BA276, 07:15-12:55 & BA442, 18:00-20:10; 8-day break);
BSL-LHR (BA753, 12:30-13:15; 12-day break);
LHR-DUB (BA836, 13:30-14:45; 11-day break);
DUB-LHR-HKG (BA835 13:25-14:40 & BA027, 21.55-16:40+1; 2-day break);
HKG-SIN-BNE (CX711, 16:20-20:10 & QF052, 19:55-05:15 +1; 23hrs 45min transit).
Taxes were $1,645pp, still steep but a lot less than for some other options.

I rang the QFF number to make the bookings and a very helpful gent found and made them all and emailed me the documentation. Being a bit busy catching up on other matters it wasn’t until later in the day that I scanned through the E-ticket itinerary. It all looked good until I saw Amman instead of Amsterdam. Perhaps the helpful QFF chap had thoughts of his native place (judging from his name) and how he’d like to visit there, but to us there is a rather big difference between the two! (Moral of the story: CHECK, CHECK, CHECK!)

So, onto the phone again to QFF and this time I talked with an extremely pleasant and helpful lady who not only sorted that problem but also checked some other award seat availability options and checked what seat selections were possible – and she didn’t charge a points fee! I was able to select preferred seats (with the help of Seat Guru – thanks again AFFs!) on the CX and QF flights but with BA it’s not possible until 24hrs before.

So far, so good! Thanks to all the helpful advice by AFF members.
Any more tips will be very welcome and much appreciated, for example:
· Any ideas for getting earlier seat selection on BA flights?
· Any tips on getting into and out of airports (espec. LHR and HKG)?
· Staying near central London for a few days then hiring a car: where’s the best place to hire a car (accessible by train from London)?
· Suggestions for hotels (mid-range pricewise) in Hong Kong and Singapore and how to get to them?
· Best mobile phone SIM cards for use in UK and Ireland?

Thanks again all you Gurus!
Cheers

 

[mrdctau]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

For seat selection on OW Awards in J, a technique I've used a few times is go into "manage by booking" on the Qatar Airways website using your Qantas PNR and surname and proceed with seat selection there.

 

[flychrisfly]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Cool trip!

Any more tips will be very welcome and much appreciated, for example:
· Any ideas for getting earlier seat selection on BA flights?

Become a OneWorld Sapphire or Emerald member

· Any tips on getting into and out of airports (espec. LHR and HKG)?

Train! Hong Kong has a single option, from memory, which takes you downtown.
LHR has a few options:
Tube which is slower but may not require a change, depending on where you want to go.
Heathrow Connect (which is cheaper but slower than) Heathrow Express to Paddington then follow the arrows to the taxi rank, or jump on the tube.

Enjoy!

 

[vetrade]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Any more tips will be very welcome and much appreciated, for example:
· Any ideas for getting earlier seat selection on BA flights?
· Any tips on getting into and out of airports (espec. LHR and HKG)?
· Staying near central London for a few days then hiring a car: where’s the best place to hire a car (accessible by train from London)?
· Suggestions for hotels (mid-range pricewise) in Hong Kong and Singapore and how to get to them?
· Best mobile phone SIM cards for use in UK and Ireland?

Welcome to the forum, Geost.
Can help with some of your queries:-
Early seat selection on BA flights requires payment of a fee ($33 per sector, I think). That can get expensive and not worth it in my experience because you will find very little difference between J seats on the planes they use in the UK and Europe. I suggest you just do your seat selections at online check-in. I have no idea what the situation is for the HYD - LHR flight though.
Your best option for airport transport in both LHR and HKG is a "no brainer" - get the train. In both cities they're easy to use and not difficult to work out. In LHR there is a desk at the airport where you can buy an Oyster Card (5 Euro refundable deposit from memory) - you can then use that for around London as well as to/from the airport. In HKG you can get an Octopus Card and then it's only a short ride to the city.
I have used my own phone in London/Europe and just bought a cheap sim card for it from carphonewarehouse - they have lots of shops around London. The sim I got worked through most of Europe - just make sure the salesman puts you on the right "plan" and get them to get it all operational in-store rather than have to fiddle with it yourself.
Haven't hired a car in London but others on AFF apparently book rentals before they leave Aus. through Avis.co.uk or a consolidator - search for "car hire" on AFF and I'm sure you'll get the info you're after.

 

[Jacques Vert]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Any more tips will be very welcome and much appreciated, for example:

· Any tips on getting into and out of airports (espec. LHR and HKG)?


· Staying near central London for a few days then hiring a car: where’s the best place to hire a car (accessible by train from London)?


· Best mobile phone SIM cards for use in UK and Ireland?

Thanks again all you Gurus!
Cheers

To and from LHR, you can use the express train or the underground = depends on where your hotel is. I used the underground which has a station near the hotel I stayed at; trip time was about an hour. Ticket price pretty good.

To and from HKG: I take the train. You can get an Airport Express Travel Pass which includes to and from the airport + 3 days unlimited travel on the MTR, light rail+, for $HG 300 per adult and you get $50 refund when you hand the pass back. See here: MTR > Tourist > MTR Tourist Products

For a mobile phone SIM, I use GoSim: GoSIM International SIM Cards with Cheap Rates & Global Coverage It may not be as cheap as some local SIMs but will work in all the places you are going without having to buy a new SIM in each country (which can be a real hassle in those that don't speak English). Text messages are reasonably priced from most countries.

Enjoy. (looking forward to the trip report.)

JV

Some others were quicker than me so apologies for the repetition.

 

[serfty]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Yes, you'll have the BA baggage allowance from the ICN-LHR sector under the MSC rules.

BUT ONLY BECAUSE the modified routing now involves travel to/from/via the USA.

 

[madrooster]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

BUT ONLY BECAUSE the modified routing now involves travel to/from/via the USA.

This may or may not be the case, see my post from earlier today:

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....ward-140k-280k-420k-8228-142.html#post1050955

 

[serfty]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

This may or may not be the case, see my post from earlier today: ...

First time I have come across the first marketing carrier having such a choice.

Anyhoo this seems to have been clarified as the CX page on this has changed to: Most Significant Carrier (MSC) - For Multi-carrier Journey - Cathay Pacific United States

It was: web.archive.org/web/20110731070555/http://www.cathaypacific.com/cpa/en_INTL/helpingyoutravel/most_significant_carrier

If the exception applies:​

1. The MSC must be the Marketing Carrier for codeshare flights.
   Example: Los Angeles - Hong Kong travel with tickets bought from American Airlines but the flight is operated by Cathay Pacific.
   American Airlines is the Most Significant Carrier.
2. The whole journey should be taken into account when determining the MSC even if the traveller checks out their baggage at one point during the journey.

 

[madrooster]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

First time I have come across the first marketing carrier having such a choice.

Anyhoo must have been clarified recently as the CX page on this has changed: Most Significant Carrier (MSC) - For Multi-carrier Journey - Cathay Pacific United States

http://www.atpco.net/atpco/products/baggage/pdf/Baggage_25 July Webinar.pdf

See this set of slides. It is probably the best illustration of the rules I have seen so far.

 

[Danger]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

The more I read about baggage, the more confused I get...

Involving the USA is no hassle for me (minus the fact that TSA are jerks), so my proposed itinerary is

MEL-KUL-HKG(stop)-ICN(stop)-LHR(stop)-JFK(stop)-ORY(stop)-HKG-MEL

with sectors:
MEL-KUL - MH (40kg)
KUL-HKG,HKG-ICN,ORY-HKG-MEL - CX (30kg)
ICN-LHR,LHR-JFK,JFK-ORY - BA (3x32kg)

For reasons which should be fairly obvious, I'd like BA's baggage allowance on my entire journey.

From what I can establish, under some hybrid of DOT/IATA 302, because BA is the first carrier crossing IATA zones, it's the MSC? Because of the US DOT, I should then get this baggage allowance for my entire journey? *confused*.

EDIT: I should add I did try and understand this scenario based on those links, the DOT regulations looks like some nice bedtime reading and the Cathay pacific example is much more simplistic.

Yes, you'll have the BA baggage allowance from the ICN-LHR sector under the MSC rules.

BUT ONLY BECAUSE the modified routing now involves travel to/from/via the USA.

I'm confused. Why is that?

 

[funnymummy]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

sounds like a dream
i used this myself and bused it to the city but i have heard the train is good if your hotel is close - but if you have to lug ports then door to door transfer may work out $ cheaper Airport Transfers, Coaches & Buses to UK Airports // National Express