No more Qantas Club access at Frankfurt - angry pax - refund of Life Membership?

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kooky

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Just had a call from some friends at Frankfurt forced to now fly an Emirates flight to Dubai, they are pretty upset they aren't getting access to the Emirates lounge with their Qantas Club card, when previously they enjoyed years at the JAL lounge. After a lengthy train trip, they said it was the final straw to be told that surprise news, nobody had told them.

They now have to get on a 24 hour flight in bitter anger at Qantas, and are planning to cancel their frequent flyer account, cancel their rewards credit card and never have anything to do with Qantas again once they land.

As frequent flyers your response will probably be that they should have known better, but these aren't platinums, these were just normal bronze flyers that took their occasional trip, and made sure their spend and loyalty stayed with Qantas. They had already booked their AU-FRA ticket before the Emirates deal took place, so they're just another unlucky casualty. Nobody told them there was no longer access at Frankfurt.

They were eroded the BA lounge access but they kept sticking with Qantas, but this is the end now for them. They have a Qantas Club Life Membership, can they get a refund on this? There's very little left of their original $4000 purchase left to use now they say. Will Qantas pay out a full $4000 refund? Has anyone taken this to the Small Claims Tribunal?
 
The qantas club terms and conditions allow for a refund where qantas make changes that impact their intended use of the qantas club membership. Note that is just my recollection of the terms, you/they will need to check the exact words. So yes they should be able to get a refund depending on their intended use.

The next question will be the amount of the refund and working out how long life membership lasts. Probably the easiest way is working out when the end of a flying life might end. 70? 75? The divide the cost by the numbers of years between when the purchased the membership and that figure. That'll give a number for them to judge against any refund offered by qantas.

Anyway first step check the terms and conditions.
 
Surely after canning the FRA flight, the least Qantas could do would be offer reciprocal lounge access at the EK Lounge to QC members who have no choice but to fly EK! :confused:
 
If the travel was originally booked before Qantas announced they were discontinuing the FRA flights they may have some recourse.
 
If the travel was originally booked before Qantas announced they were discontinuing the FRA flights they may have some recourse.

Yes quite apart from the issue of cancelling QP membership, I would be looking for some sort of compensation for lack of access to lounge as was promised at the time the booking was made.
 
It's probably in QF's interests to refund everyone who purchased lifetime QC.
Personally I wouldn't go for the refund. It's a handy card to have in the back pocket.... for ever.
 
Yes quite apart from the issue of cancelling QP membership, I would be looking for some sort of compensation for lack of access to lounge as was promised at the time the booking was made.

If I have this right, QP life is no longer available.
If so I would be reluctant to kill off anything that is no longer available , in the heat of the moment as it were.
If I have learned one thing in life it is " act in haste, repent at leisure"
 
Ok back at a computer, the Terms and conditions for Qantas club are here: http://www.qantas.com.au/travel/airlines/qantas-club-terms-conditions/global/en#top They were a bit hard to find.

Clause 4.4 is the relevant clause for getting a refund. There are 2 huddles to jump, firstly was this a change to the club rules; secondly does it deprive you substantially of intended use. The first huddle is arguable, but the lack of lounge is not a direct change of rules IMO. They haven't suffered a change in the T&Cs, so that doesn't apply.

4.4 If Qantas closes a Qantas operated airport lounge in a Member's registered city of residence without replacing it, or amends these Terms and Conditions or the Club Rules in a way that deprives the Member substantially of the intended use of the membership, the Member will have the option of cancelling their membership and receiving a pro rata refund of the membership fee for the remaining period of membership.
It's probably in QF's interests to refund everyone who purchased lifetime QC.
Personally I wouldn't go for the refund. It's a handy card to have in the back pocket.... for ever.

I agree, I probably wouldn't cancel it as life membership is something to have for a rainy day. But I guess that's up to the people concerned to decide. Can't hurt to give them full information.
 
they will however be able to use the lounges in Dubai on outbound and return however right?

did qantas sent an explicit email detailing lounge access removal affected by the EK/QF agreement?

there are so many communications that put a positive spin on everything that it can be hard to sort out where benefits have been removed.

i like how my UK banks do their communication. if there has been a change in terms and conditions (or other benefits) they send me the new Ts and Cs but also a short and sweet summary... 'the following have changed for the worse' and 'the following have changed for the better'. no small small print... just say it how it is.

so... checking the qantas club lounge access page it shows the following:

New! Qantas Club Members and Eligible Skywards members as well as customers in First and Business cabins will have access to Emirates and Qantas Lounges.
For First and Business customers, this includes access to Emirates' First Class and Business Class Lounges in Dubai Terminal 3 including new lounges in Concourse A as well as Qantas and Emirates Lounges in Australia, Europe, the Middle East, Asia and Africa.
Qantas Club members will continue to have access to Qantas operated International Business Lounges* and will be welcomed at the Emirates Business lounge in Dubai when their next onward flight that day is with Qantas or Emirates.
When travelling from London, Qantas Club members will have access to the American Airlines Admirals lounge at London Heathrow when the next onward flight that day is with Qantas or Emirates.

why did they not say, very simply 'lounge access is no longer available for qantas club passengers departing from Frankfurt who have been reaccommodated on emirates services'?
 
Clause 4.4 is the relevant clause for getting a refund. There are 2 huddles to jump, firstly was this a change to the club rules; secondly does it deprive you substantially of intended use. The first huddle is arguable, but the lack of lounge is not a direct change of rules IMO. They haven't suffered a change in the T&Cs, so that doesn't apply.

As far as I'm concerned all QP members have been given an "opt-out" by the dropping of BA lounge access. Qantas would be hard-placed to argue this wasn't a significant reduction in membership benefits.
 
why did they not say, very simply 'lounge access is no longer available for qantas club passengers departing from Frankfurt who have been reaccommodated on emirates services'?

That's a difficult one. Technically, removal of access was not due to a QC change but due to an operational change. So they can access the lounge in FRA if there is a QF flight. However, I agree that they could have been explicit in noting the removal of lounge access. I'm not defending QF just trying to think of the possible argument they'll use as that helps prepare a counter argument.

As far as I'm concerned all QP members have been given an "opt-out" by the dropping of BA lounge access. Qantas would be hard-placed to argue this wasn't a significant reduction in membership benefits.

I agree it is a significant reduction. However, the reduction also has to deprive the member substantially of their intended use. This is very important to remember and there is a subtle difference with being a significant reduction in benefits. For example, If someone got the membership mainly for domestic lounges then removal of LHR does not seem to substantially deprive them of the intended use.
 
the real question should be: was it a good investment to buy a lifetime QP pass if you live in germany.
 
The Frequent Flyer Concierge team takes the hard work out of finding reward seat availability. Using their expert knowledge and specialised tools, they'll help you book a great trip that maximises the value for your points.

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Fortunately, that doesn't seem to apply to the OP.



The JAL lounge is superior to the CX lounge IME.

Fair enough but it doesn't say much for the CX lounge then. I seem to remember in the early days QF used an American lounge?
 
Just had a call from some friends at Frankfurt forced to now fly an Emirates flight to Dubai, they are pretty upset they aren't getting access to the Emirates lounge with their Qantas Club card, when previously they enjoyed years at the JAL lounge. After a lengthy train trip, they said it was the final straw to be told that surprise news, nobody had told them.

They now have to get on a 24 hour flight in bitter anger at Qantas, and are planning to cancel their frequent flyer account, cancel their rewards credit card and never have anything to do with Qantas again once they land.

As frequent flyers your response will probably be that they should have known better, but these aren't platinums, these were just normal bronze flyers that took their occasional trip, and made sure their spend and loyalty stayed with Qantas. They had already booked their AU-FRA ticket before the Emirates deal took place, so they're just another unlucky casualty. Nobody told them there was no longer access at Frankfurt.

They were eroded the BA lounge access but they kept sticking with Qantas, but this is the end now for them. They have a Qantas Club Life Membership, can they get a refund on this? There's very little left of their original $4000 purchase left to use now they say. Will Qantas pay out a full $4000 refund? Has anyone taken this to the Small Claims Tribunal?

There were guidelines in place for customers in this situation. Without their details and associated privacy reasons, I cannot comment on their position.

However I would encourage your friends to get in touch with our Customer Care team about this experience. They'll be able to investigate the circumstances specific to their booking, and discuss the options for them moving forward.
 
As far as I'm concerned all QP members have been given an "opt-out" by the dropping of BA lounge access. Qantas would be hard-placed to argue this wasn't a significant reduction in membership benefits.

I don't know what you are referring to by "opt-out", but if you are talking about a refund, then the answer given by QF was a clear and resounding no when the BA Terraces/Galleries QP issue occurred about 2 years ago. The smoke and mirrors answer was that it was a BA issue, not a QF one. The wording of the T&Cs also changed as a CYA for QF.
 
There were guidelines in place for customers in this situation. Without their details and associated privacy reasons, I cannot comment on their position.

However I would encourage your friends to get in touch with our Customer Care team about this experience. They'll be able to investigate the circumstances specific to their booking, and discuss the options for them moving forward.

what were the general guidelines? those are not subject to privacy issues.
 
If you have lifetime Gold then life QP isn't so important is it??? I mean everything can be 'enhanced'...

Not that the people in the OPs post were lifetime gold, just sayin...
 
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