Looking To Fly Again.....But The Fear

[agent009]

OK

I was going to fly and go to Europe. Many on here were great in their support. Thanks a lot, much appreciated.

Long story short, could not get time off, major restructure at work.

I have months of leave owing, I can only take a little time at this stage. I am thinking of Cairns, a 3hr flight from Syd.

Now who to fly with:


1. QANTAS older 767......oh no.
2. Jetstar newer planes...prefer Boeing though.
3. Virgin 737, smaller planes, but who does the maintenance, are their planes new or secondhand ?


If I dint have this fear, I'd just get on & go. I am trying to find the best option. At this stage it kinda looks like Jetstar. Virgin are probably pretty good, but I just dont know enough about them.

 

[v8Statesman]

1. QANTAS older 767......oh no.

I Rather enjoy flying in a 767. Nice wide body aircraft. Dual aisle. Sure they are not brand new. but they do the job well.

 

[newflyer]

Is Jetstar's fleet 'new'? I thought a fair few of them were ex-Ansett Airbuses...

And re Qantas 767s - yeah they're old, noisy and rattle around like nothing else, but I actually feel more secure on 'em - after all, if they were going to stuff up, surely they woulda done so by now, right?!

Don't even worry about what sort of plane you're getting on, how old it is or who does the maintenance on the thing - relax and just enjoy the journey, knowing that every Australian aircraft (and commercial carrier) has to meet some pretty stringent safety requirements.

PM if yer still anxious or want to discuss further!

 

[mbeder]

Agree with the safety concerns...I think we're OK in Oz...
on another note, I recently travelled on Virgin on a SYD-MEL early morning trip (my first flight with them in more than 5 years) and returned a few hours later on QF on an old, tired-looking 767...there was heaps more leg-room on the Virgin 737, the interior was brighter and cleaner, and the hosties were certainly a lot friendlier...

 

[agent009]

I am trying to think that its only a 3 hour trip. Maybe I will look at Virgin, I think people have said they are good.

 

[mbeder]

Virgin can also be a lot cheaper...for the recent early morning SYD-MEL trip they were $150 cheaper than QF ($77 vs $225), and eventhough a client was picking up the tab I wouldn't have felt comfortable booking QF for that leg

 

[haydensydney]

Here I thought I was the only one looking at the types of aircraft to ensure a stress free flight. I've been turned off the 767's, although I've been told they are one of the last major commercial airliners in the skies these days that can fly manually when there is a hydraulics failure (im sure someone can elaborate on this for me).
I basically choose the newest aircraft - recently did a SYD-AKL-SYD on a NZ 767 in J and thought half the time I was going to die. A week later i did WLG-SYD-WLG on the A320 and I felt much safer. I seem to be more worried about stress fractures and fatigue. And now, exploding oxygen bottles (kidding!)...
(Oh, I went to my doctor and grabbed some oxazepam, which is a Benzo - one of those and some wine does the trick. Makes me feel much less anxious).
I would probably go with VirginBlue on your trip.

 

[ScaredStupid]

I know how you feel Agent099; I don't want to fly Qantas at the moment, I wish we were going Virgin and I always check which plane is flying... unfortunately (if I decide to go) we will be going on a 737 .. they are so claustrophobic and small and you seem to feel every little bump on them - or maybe that's just me and like you said the 767 is so old. Last year I made sure (where possible) that the planes we were going on were 747's; not anymore !!!

I've been reading a lot of posts on this site and it's quite encouraging, considering some of the people on here seem to be flying continually and they don't seem to be scared.
but I would like to know if Virgin's maintenance is carried out by the same crowd as Qantas?

 

[haydensydney]

The anxiety faced with flying is a very personal thing. Some people are more worried about turbulence/claustrophobia etc. As mentioned earlier, my main concern is stress/fatigue and how the aircraft can respond in the event of an emergency. Other things I look at include the availability of a suitable airstrip should an emergency landing be required - these can be far and few between especially when flying over large water masses for example. I have no idea how i did SYD-YVR on AC a few months back!!

My main fear is with the larger 747 and A380: can they land in Alice Springs if required? I know a 737 can! In fact the smaller aircraft such as the A320 and the 737 have a larger number of alternative strips where they can land if required. I have complete faith in the crew upfront should anything critical crop up: however the limits of their skill is limited by physical resources such as available airstrips etc. My suggestion is to stick with the time proven 737's - they have stood the test of time and are very reliable aircraft. They have a much larger pool of alternative airports should issues arise.

I too would like to know how Virgin's maintenance compares with QF's... because they are a LCC does that mean their maintenance is "just" on par with the standard required by regulation? Does QF mainenance "exceed" regulatory requirements because they are a full service airline? (from recent media attention this may not me the case!!)...

Hayden

 

[stuartfaz]

I too would like to know how Virgin's maintenance compares with QF's... because they are a LCC does that mean their maintenance is "just" on par with the standard required by regulation? Does QF mainenance "exceed" regulatory requirements because they are a full service airline? (from recent media attention this may not me the case!!)...

Hayden

As newflyer said before, in this country there's usually nothing to worry about in terms of safety and maintenance. All Australian airlines exceed international requirements, regardless of whether they're an LCC or not. It's just what customers in this country have come to expect, and as such, is the norm.

For the record, I believe Virgin do their own maintenance. Can't be 100% on that though.

If I can make a recommendation to the OP and others in this thread, regardless of the airline you fly with in Australia, there's a 99.999% (at least) probability that it will be a perfectly safe flight. The recent media attention to airline safety smacks a bit of over-reaction, so don't base your opinions on that.

Having flown on all 4 majors in the past year I'm yet to have an issue. They're all good. My preference is Virgin but I feel safe on all of them.

 

[Mwenenzi]

For the record, I believe Virgin do their own maintenance. Can't be 100% on that though.

My understanding is Virgin’s heavy B737 maintenances is out sourced to a foreign non Australian owned engineering organization (Air NZ in Christchurch). Often see DJ B737’s at the Air NZ workshop.

A lot of stupidity has been said about non Australian maintenance. A number of people have written they will not fly on Australian airline until maintainance is bought back to Australia and that they chose to fly on non Australian airlines. Do theses goons know that these non Australian airlines do maintenance in foreign countries? Of the thousands of aircraft in the air at any time and very small % are maintained in Australia.

Driving to the airport is a lot more risky than flying on a Australian aircraft.

 

[NYCguy]

Driving to the airport is, indeed, much more fraught with risk than taking the flight. If one spends too much time watching TV documentaries and reading accident investigation reports; not to mention ill-informed comments made by journalists in trashy newspapers; one can reach the conclusion that every flight brings the potential for a fiery, horrific death. Statistics, however, show this to be an extraordinarily uncommon outcome.

Sitting on an aircraft for 8+ hours with arm-rests clenched in closed fists, beads of terror-sweat forming on the brow, searching the in-flight map for potential ports to which the aircraft can divert in the event of an emergency, is irrational. It would be wise for an individual who suffered from such anxieties to examine, in guided therapy, the root cause of those irrational fears.

Once one has recovered from the irrational fear of dying in an air crash, one can look forward to sitting back with a glass of wine on one's next flight and enjoying the experience, rather than suffering a futile, self-induced panic for hours and hours on end.

 

[NM]

My understanding is Virgin’s heavy B737 maintenances is out sourced to a foreign non Australian owned engineering organization (Air NZ in Christchurch). Often see DJ B737’s at the Air NZ workshop.

In Australia, the Virgin Blue fleet is maintained by two companies, Jet Care and Virgin Tech. It is my understanding that the original maintenance provider was Jet Care, which is based in Brisbane, Sydney, Coolangatta and Canberra, and Virgin Tech joined later and is based in Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth. Jet Care is 100% owned by Toll, while Virgin Tech is 63% owned by Toll (at least that was the case in 2007)

 

[Mwenenzi]

OT: Looks like John Holland has taken work from Air NZ. From The Australian of 22 Aug 08

JOHN Holland Aviation Services is set to continue its strong growth after taking some of the Virgin Blue heavy maintenance work from Air New Zealand's engineering unit.
JHAS will today announce it has signed a five-year alliance deal with Virgin to maintain its Boeing 737s.
The deal is the first of its type and will give the Melbourne-based engineering group about half of the Virgin work.
"We'll particularly focus on all the short-duration work, such as undercarriage changes, engine cowl work and the shorter heavy maintenance checks because they don't have the cost of ferrying to New Zealand," JHAS general manager Andrew Henderson said........

.

 

[ScaredStupid]

NYCguy - if only I could sit back and relax with a glass of wine on my next flight, that would be heaven Do you know a shrink that can get me to that point?

Are any Qantas planes still maintained in Australia, such as the 737's? Sorry - don't mean to harp on but I just have to know before I go

 

[straitman]

NYCguy - if only I could sit back and relax with a glass of wine on my next flight, that would be heaven Do you know a shrink that can get me to that point?

Are any Qantas planes still maintained in Australia, such as the 737's? Sorry - don't mean to harp on but I just have to know before I go

ScaredStupid,

There are professional fear of flying courses available so would start there if I was you.

A lot of maintenance is carried out in Oz however having said that who is to say that the Oz maintenance is any better (or worse) than elsewhere. They all follow the same procedures and Maintenance Manual and these are authorised by the FAA for Boeing and the JAA for Airbus. The CASA input in this process is really quite minimal.

For the record the 747 aircraft that had the oxygen bottle problem and diverted to Manilla was maintained in Australia at Avalon.

 

[oz_mark]

NYCguy - if only I could sit back and relax with a glass of wine on my next flight, that would be heaven Do you know a shrink that can get me to that point?

Are any Qantas planes still maintained in Australia, such as the 737's? Sorry - don't mean to harp on but I just have to know before I go

My understanding is that for the most part the 737's are, with some overflow maintenance being done overseas.

 

[albatross710]

I heard a report that the fatality rate in the USA increased after 9/11. Business travel swicthed to road travel and less air travel. With the numberof business trips in the USA, it was simple arithmatic (apparently) that the road fatality accident rate is higher than air accident rate.

Consequently the very thing that travellers were aspiring to do (safer travel) they were making an emotional decision which worked against them.

Actually I think it may have been in the book "The Logic of Life" by the FT journalist. A good read BTW.

 

[NYCguy]

NYCguy - if only I could sit back and relax with a glass of wine on my next flight, that would be heaven Do you know a shrink that can get me to that point?

Any psychologist who is into cognitive behavioral therapy can help you.

 

[tscharke]

Just came across an interesting article in the 30Aug08 edition of New Scientist called "Keep Your Head".

It talks about the "availability rule":the more easily you can bring to mind or imagine an event, the more likely you think it is to happen. It goes on to say that this is driven largely by feeling, so memories of emotional or vivid situations are the most easily recalled. Thus a major reason we overestimate the likelihood of being killed in a plane crash, shark attack or terrorist attack is that extensive and graphic media coverage makes such events easy to picture.

No real surprises there however the article has an interesting statistical graph which shows the risk of death by means of transport per distance traveled:

Transport        Deaths per Billion Kilometers
Motorbike                  96.9
Foot                       36.2
Bicycle                    33.6
Car                        2.6
Van                        0.6
Water                      0.3
Bus                        0.2
Rail                       0.1
Air                        <0.1