information please

Discussion in 'Open Discussion' started by robro, Dec 4, 2006.

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  1. robro

    robro Newbie

    Nov 20, 2006
    2
    0
    Before transferring my amex points to QFF is there any other avenue for obtaining better value for either domestic or international travel
     

  2. JohnK

    JohnK Veteran Member

    Mar 22, 2005
    40,885
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    You have no choice with domestic as Amex membership rewards points will only transfer to QF. I think you can also transfer Amex MR points to AA through SPG but for ~60,606 Amex MR points will only get you 25,000 AA points.

    For international carriers you have a choice of Virgin Atlantic, Malaysian Airlines, Thai Airways Royal Orchid Plus, Cathay Pacific Asia Miles or Singapore Kris Flyer but your Amex MR points transfer at a ratio of 2:1 into these programs.
     
  3. NM

    NM
    Moderator

    Aug 27, 2004
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    It really depends on the specific domestic award you are looking for.

    For example, my last QF domestic award was BNE-PER return, but the only availability was BNE-ADL-PER and PER-SYD-BNE. That would cost 18,000 points for the outbound and 25,000 points for the return flight, or 43,000 points for the trip (in economy). With a transfer of 1:1 from Amex, that is 43,000 Amex points. Add to that the fuel surcharges of 4 x $33.20 = $132.80.

    If using AA for that award, it would cost 20,000 AAdvantage miles. To get 20,000 AAdvantage miles by transferring Amex points via Starwood, you will need 50,505 Amex points. But remember that AA doe snot charge the fuel surcharge so you are saving $132.80 in cash.

    Now do the same comparision with my latest AAdvantage award, being BNE-MEL-AKL and AKL-MEL-BNE in business class. The trip is via MEL as that was the only availability for 3 seats in January. Using QF FF points, each seat would cost 100,000 QF FF points plus $190.40 in fuel surcharges. Using AA the same trip cost 35,000 AAdvantage miles and no fuel surcharges. And if the points/miles were originally sourced from Amex, the QF award would require 100,0000 Amex points and the AA award would require 84,849 Amex points.

    These results are skewed due to the awards only being available as multi-sector trips and that pushed the QF points requirement into the next zone that it would have been if direct flights were available. It also makes the fuel surcharges particularly bad on the QF awards.

    So I would expect if you are looking for simple domestic awards, or considering one-way awards, then QF is a good move. But if looking for longer domestic or even NZ awards, then you need to determine the weighting you will apply to the points+FuelSurcharge QF award versed the miles-only AA award.
     
  4. jasonja3

    jasonja3 Member

    Sep 12, 2005
    368
    1
    SYD
    Virgin Atlantic transfer from AMEX at 1:1. Their award flights are much cheaper than Qantas also.
     
  5. JohnK

    JohnK Veteran Member

    Mar 22, 2005
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    Yes you are quite right. I lumped them all in the one category without looking at Amex MR transfer ratios.

    Just out of interest how much is an economy return award SYD-BKK or SYD-SIN using Virgin Atlantic Flying Club? I have accumulated MR points with Amex and I am hesitant to transfer them to QF until the air clears with the takeover. Looking for alternative ways of spending the MR points.
     
  6. jasonja3

    jasonja3 Member

    Sep 12, 2005
    368
    1
    SYD
    Only SYD-HKG-LHR at the moment, and from LHR to major destinations ATW.
     
  7. NM

    NM
    Moderator

    Aug 27, 2004
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    VS don't fly SYD-BK or SYD-SIN. They only fly to HKG from SYD.
     
  8. JohnK

    JohnK Veteran Member

    Mar 22, 2005
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    I was thinking they might have partner awards to get to those destnations.

    No problem, I shall continue to search.
     
  9. Kiwi Flyer

    Kiwi Flyer Senior Member

    Sep 24, 2004
    5,453
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  10. JohnK

    JohnK Veteran Member

    Mar 22, 2005
    40,885
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  11. Kiwi Flyer

    Kiwi Flyer Senior Member

    Sep 24, 2004
    5,453
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    per-chc/zqn in business looks good value
     
  12. jasonja3

    jasonja3 Member

    Sep 12, 2005
    368
    1
    SYD
  13. hvb

    hvb Junior Member

    Mar 12, 2006
    33
    3
    Gee this is a no brainer....

    With amex MR allowing 1:1 to Flying club why wouldnt send the whole lot there.

    With SIA owning a fair slab of Virgin they have a partner status with them. Have a look at this table .....

    <H2>SPEND MILES ( with sq via Flying Club )



    Economy Class
    mileage*Business Class
    mileage*First Class
    mileage*Singapore - Europe70,000 120,000 180,000 Singapore - Australia/New Zealand55,000 85,000 130,000 Singapore - South Africa60,000 100,000 140,000 Singapore - China (Hong Kong, Guangzhou) & Taiwan35,000 60,000 90,000 Singapore - China (Shanghai, Beijing, Nanjing) & Japan & South Korea45,000 70,000 100,000 Bangkok - Tokyo40,000 65,000 95,000 Singapore - Brunei/Malaysia/Indonesia15,000 35,000 50,000 Singapore - Philippines/Thailand/Vietnam25,000 40,000 60,000 Singapore - USA/Canada90,000 135,000 195,000 USA - South East Asia90,000 135,000 195,000 San Francisco - Hong Kong60,000 110,000 130,000 Los Angeles - Taipei/Tokyo60,000 110,000 130,000 New York (JFK) - Frankfurt50,000 90,000 120,000 Europe - Australia/New Zealand100,000 150,000 220,000 Europe - South East Asia70,000 120,000 180,000 Hong Kong - Malaysia30,000 50,000 70,000 Hong Kong - South Africa80,000 130,000 195,000 Malaysia - Philippines25,000 40,000 60,000 Tokyo - South Africa80,000 130,000 195,000 Singapore - India/Bangladesh/Sri Lanka/Maldives40,000 65,000 95,000 Singapore - Egypt/Saudi Arabia/Turkey/UAE50,000 80,000 120,000 Singapore - Pakistan (Lahore and Karachi)50,000 80,000 120,000 Singapore - Moscow (via Dubai)70,000 110,000 165,000

    So why would you go QF FCL to London @ 384,000 when
    you can do SQ FCL to London for 220,000 ( and the availability is much easier )

    Then you can do ANZ to the West coast of USA.

    .... no argument


    hvb....sorry bad formatting

    </H2>
     
  14. JohnK

    JohnK Veteran Member

    Mar 22, 2005
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    I am not really interested in spending FF points travelling J or F with any carrier. I do not earn enough credit card or FF points or that quickly so I need to watch where my credit card points take me.

    Now the Europe - Australia/New Zealand economy award with SQ at 100,000 FF points sounds very tempting and I would give it some serious thought if my trip still goes ahead next August.

    Mainly I am interested in using FF points to do multi-itinerary trips around Australia, SYD-BKK and to a lesser extent SYD-SIN. The QFF program gives me that opportunity but as there is a black hole hanging over their heads right now with the Macquarie takeover I am very hesitant to move any Amex MR points to QFF. The points can stay in Amex MR for now.

    Thanks for all the useful information. It is good to know that there is a viable alternative if needed.
     
  15. hvb

    hvb Junior Member

    Mar 12, 2006
    33
    3

    Simple......dont move your points until you are about to book.

    hvb
     
  16. Kiwi Flyer

    Kiwi Flyer Senior Member

    Sep 24, 2004
    5,453
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    Formatted for you

     
  17. hvb

    hvb Junior Member

    Mar 12, 2006
    33
    3
    Kiwi Flyer,

    Thanks for that. Hope you didnt do it manually.

    When I did it I was in a hurry and just did a cut n paste.

    The prices make SQ pretty cheap via flying club dont you think..... or shouldnt we be circulating this info.

    Hvb
     
  18. Kiwi Flyer

    Kiwi Flyer Senior Member

    Sep 24, 2004
    5,453
    4
    Well the earn and burn rates are important. For example LH Miles and More charges slightly more for awards, but earning rate (on some fares) is much higher so I'm better off.

    Kinda highlights how poor value QFF is though - both lower earning rate and much higher award rate than some of the alternatives.
     
  19. JohnK

    JohnK Veteran Member

    Mar 22, 2005
    40,885
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    Yes you are right that earning and burning FF points are important in a FF program. But what is more important is that all airfares purchased, even the lowest of lowest sale airfares, are eligible for FF points accrual. Now how many FF programs can actually claim that in their resume. I know QFF can!

    As usual YMMV.

    BTW the above statement means nothing if you purchase flexible/full economy, business class or first class airfares.
     
  20. Kiwi Flyer

    Kiwi Flyer Senior Member

    Sep 24, 2004
    5,453
    4
    sure but it takes a heck of a lot of short domestic hops on cheap QF fares to earn enough points to get to europe in business or first class - even 2 round trips a week I am still looking at 2 years
     
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