Heads up about program changes

[SeatBackForward]

I'm curious to hear what constitutes a 'genuine' frequent flyer versus a 'non-genuine' one.

There appears to be a general attitude that those who fly by paying for their fares are the genuine frequent flyers, whereas those who fly by earning points on credit cards etc, and then have used the xASA's as their path to FF status, aren't. There are sub-committees of each of the above being formed to decide whether that includes, those who earn on non-QF flights, and those who earn by buying lots of Taco seasoning at supermarkets also.

As for me personally...meh..if QF offer it, then go for it.

I actually see the issues being about two seperate things, QF points and QF status. Ideally QF qouldn't mix the two up..but they do..so see my previous sentence.

 

[BD1959]

In my mind, a genuine frequent flyer is someone who has status and points because of BIS time. A 'non-genuine' one is someone who whilst is carrying a FF card, is someone who takes advantage of loopholes in the system to obtain points via non-flight purchases, bonuses and other tricks all whilst maintaining a fewer hours as possible in the air. As funny as it seems, there would be quite a few on AFF who I think would fit in under the 'non-genuine' category, whilst some NB's and PS's out in the real world might actually fit in under the 'genuine' category, but are not higher because they chose cheap tickets, fly direct and in some cases chose tickets which don't earn anything.

OK... so what do you call someone who:

- Used to be a FF because of BIS
- No longer remains a FF because BIS time remains same - but time is replaced by $ spend
- Decides that they can remain a FF courtesy of BIS, just with a different carrier

QF call this "an Ex-WP who used to spend first with us but who we've now lost".

Regards,

BD

 

[Himeno]

An airline wanting people to fly their metal when available is understandable IMHO.

Maybe, but with the massive reduction in partner earn SC, they also want us to fly Qantas when they aren't available.
I have no issue with QF giving a cough earn when flying CX MEL-HKG or JL SYD-NRT. I do have an issue when they want to give a cough earn because I want to fly CX HKG-JFK.

 

[SQ421]

An airline wanting people to fly their metal when available is understandable IMHO.

And if the airline could compete on a combination of product (hard & soft) and pricing, it wouldn't have to penalize fliers for flying partner airlines in the hope of getting people to fly their own metal.

 

[harvyk]

OK... so what do you call someone who:

- Used to be a FF because of BIS

Me..............

 

[SeatBackForward]

This whole thread is turning into a Pythonesque scene reminiscent of the Life of Brian:

"we should be united against the common enemy"
"the judean peoples front!?!?"

Lets not forget the purpose of this AFF site (as I said way back here) is to make each one of us an informed member, and to drive improvements for all of us.

 

[BD1959]

It was an unintended consequence of QF loading fares that did not have a POS restriction and Brazilian legislation that prevents carriers from charging a fuel surcharge.

Strikes me that QF Board require a Director of Unintended Consequences, they could spend their time:

- Reviewing the decision to purchase aircraft for an Airline prior to regulatory clearance
- Reviewing the decision to continue 2 x A380 services DXB-LHR when your end-goal is to kick off as many pax as possible onto EK Codeshares at DXB
- Reviewing the 65% Line-In-Sand, 15min SYD-MEL frequencies with cheaper fares (lower revenue) on the -15min departures, only to cancel these and move PAX onto the flights you charge $$$ for
- Reviewing the decision to back MH's entry into Oneworld, only for your Pax to desert you for nasty MH
- Reviewing the decision to pull QF29, only for your customers to desert you for flights departing MEL westwards around midnight
- etc etc etc


I'm sure there are hundreds of examples (let's not mention that four-letter acronym again!!) others could come up with. QF seem to be a "victim" more than most of the Law of Unintended Consequences!

Regards,

BD

 

[blackcat20]

In my mind, a genuine frequent flyer is someone who has status and points because of BIS time. A 'non-genuine' one is someone who whilst is carrying a FF card, is someone who takes advantage of loopholes in the system to obtain points via non-flight purchases, bonuses and other tricks all whilst maintaining a fewer hours as possible in the air. As funny as it seems, there would be quite a few on AFF who I think would fit in under the 'non-genuine' category, whilst some NB's and PS's out in the real world might actually fit in under the 'genuine' category, but are not higher because they chose cheap tickets, fly direct and in some cases chose tickets which don't earn anything.

Hmmm. Well I was close to PS, and knowing I had a few international trips this year, took advantage of a MASA to push me over the line so I'd have status before I did the BIS work. So does that make me genuine or not genuine? I have 72,000km of "legit" flying booked this year so far, and far better to have status at the start, rather than the end.

 

[JohnK]

No one is forcing you to; however to say people were "taking advantage of a flawed system" is judging them without cause.

Any Seat awards earning SCs and points is gone. It does not matter what I think.

It also does not matter what I say as you are right and you disagree with everything I say.

 

[tuapekastar]

In my mind, a genuine frequent flyer is someone who has status and points because of BIS time. A 'non-genuine' one is someone who whilst is carrying a FF card, is someone who takes advantage of loopholes in the system to obtain points via non-flight purchases, bonuses and other tricks all whilst maintaining a fewer hours as possible in the air. As funny as it seems, there would be quite a few on AFF who I think would fit in under the 'non-genuine' category, whilst some NB's and PS's out in the real world might actually fit in under the 'genuine' category, but are not higher because they chose cheap tickets, fly direct and in some cases chose tickets which don't earn anything.

Interesting take (and FWIW, I don't think it is possible to define what is a frequent flyer, genuine or otherwise, in any meaningful way) but a little nebulous in parts I think - 'fewer hours as possible in the air' could mean thousands of hours.

Say my work colleague does 2 flights a year totalling 1000 miles. I do 40 flights totalling 35000 miles in the same year. Compared to my colleague I am a (very) frequent flyer, and he is not. Then along comes someone else from these boards that does 200 flights totalling 300000 miles in the same year. Compared to both of us he is a (very) frequent flyer. I am no longer a frequent flyer (compared to him).

Is FFing based on number of flights or time spent in the air? 50 x 1 hour flights in Y- versus 2 x 22 hour flights in F. Roughly the same time BIS. The former spent say $6000, the latter around $20,000. But the former, due to having taken 25x more flights has more 'right' to be called a FFer versus latter at only 2 flights. But who has pumped more money (not necessarily profit) into QF, and at the current SC earn rates the former is a Silver and the latter a Gold.

As I said, impossible (IMHO) to meaningfully define.

 

[harvyk]

Hmmm. Well I was close to PS, and knowing I had a few international trips this year, took advantage of a MASA to push me over the line so I'd have status before I did the BIS work. So does that make me genuine or not genuine? I have 72,000km of "legit" flying booked this year so far, and far better to have status at the start, rather than the end.

According to the patent pending "harvyk - for some reason I'm now the ultimate decider of if you are a true FFer or not" machine... I'll call you a genuine FFer...


I think a few people missed the key (although not overly excellent English) words in my post "non-flight purchases, bonuses and other tricks all whilst maintaining a fewer hours as possible in the air"

 

[BD1959]

So does that make me genuine or not genuine?

It makes you: ingenuine

Regards,

BD

 

[harvyk]

Interesting take (and FWIW, I don't think it is possible to define what is a frequent flyer, genuine or otherwise, in any meaningful way) but a little nebulous in parts I think - 'fewer hours as possible in the air' could mean thousands of hours.

Say my work colleague does 2 flights a year totalling 1000 miles. I do 40 flights totalling 35000 miles in the same year. Compared to my colleague I am a (very) frequent flyer, and he is not. Then along comes someone else from these boards that does 200 flights totalling 300000 miles in the same year. Compared to both of us he is a (very) frequent flyer. I am no longer a frequent flyer (compared to him).

Is FFing based on number of flights or time spent in the air? 50 x 1 hour flights in Y- versus 2 x 22 hour flights in F. Roughly the same time BIS. The former spent say $6000, the latter around $20,000. But the former, due to having taken 25x more flights has more 'right' to be called a FFer versus latter at only 2 flights. But who has pumped more money (not necessarily profit) into QF, and at the current SC earn rates the former is a Silver and the latter a Gold.

As I said, impossible (IMHO) to meaningfully define.

I think frequency has as much to do with anything... I'd call the 50 x 1 hour flyer a frequent flyer over the 2 x 22 hour F flyer, simply because frequent flyer to me indicates frequency, not duration. Other factors like money spent, or class flown in my mind don't really have anything to do with if your are a frequent flyer or not.

Of course no doubt my definition and the airlines marketing departments definition probably differ a little, esp on the money spent and class flown aspects.

 

[drron]

OK say it is now someone who has flown 50 1 hour flights in Y as against someone who has 3 22 hour flights in F.
The first flies more segments but the second has his/her BIS for longer.
Put ii yet another way.Person A says I was on a plane for 50 hours this month and person B responds with but I was on a plane for 66 hours this month.

 

[TonyHancock]

I'm the first to admit that I am not a frequent flyer. I don't know how some of you do it.

 

[Thunder Down Under]

This is starting to look like a game of 'upmanship'

TDU

 

[Himeno]

2. The majority of people with QF points are unsure of exactly how to use them. I know of people sitting on 400K balances who feel that the points are worthless and as such don't use them.

I've heard that a lot of people just use them to get gift cards and other items from the QF store.

 

[legroom]

Interesting take (and FWIW, I don't think it is possible to define what is a frequent flyer, genuine or otherwise, in any meaningful way) but a little nebulous in parts I think - 'fewer hours as possible in the air' could mean thousands of hours.

Say my work colleague does 2 flights a year totalling 1000 miles. I do 40 flights totalling 35000 miles in the same year. Compared to my colleague I am a (very) frequent flyer, and he is not. Then along comes someone else from these boards that does 200 flights totalling 300000 miles in the same year. Compared to both of us he is a (very) frequent flyer. I am no longer a frequent flyer (compared to him).

Is FFing based on number of flights or time spent in the air? 50 x 1 hour flights in Y- versus 2 x 22 hour flights in F. Roughly the same time BIS. The former spent say $6000, the latter around $20,000. But the former, due to having taken 25x more flights has more 'right' to be called a FFer versus latter at only 2 flights. But who has pumped more money (not necessarily profit) into QF, and at the current SC earn rates the former is a Silver and the latter a Gold.

As I said, impossible (IMHO) to meaningfully define.

It appears the monetary values carry some importance.

SQ grants you PPS club membership if you have spent at least $SIN25,000 in the previous 12 months with them.

Judging from the levels of benefits alone, it appears that PPS membership is more highly valued than (say) SQ Silver or even Gold which you could achieve by repeated, frequent Y flights.

So, from your example, it would appear that QF would value the F pax more.

..... what is the thread about again ????

I feel we are just venting our frustrations, maybe anger at what QF had done - in essence, devaluing the QFF currency.

But, I sincerely doubt if anything we say / write here would make any iota of difference.

QF moves on.

So have I.

C'est la vie !

I certainly enjoy the scene while it lasts but I won't sit here crying forever.

 

[Claire Lee]

I'm the first to admit that I am not a frequent flyer. I don't know how some of you do it.

Anyone who has Lurpak as his avatar must know "how it's done". Maybe we should meet up sometime Mr. Hancock and have high tea, warm scones dripping with Lurpak and strawberry jam, you just have no idea how excited that makes me thinking about that... "Purr"Anyway, on topic, I am suffering time zone sleep deprivation and decided to read this thread. I will put my structured thoughts on paper before posting as I would hate to be the recipient of abuse (again) because of something said, but... It's not as bad as it looks and I think a few need some chemical assistance prescribed by a GP to help calm themselves down. ;-)Stupid

 

[JohnPhelan]

Oh no, we're back to the PCV debate!!