General Discussion/Q&A on Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Pushka]

I don't view it as an individual thing. More a way of thinking. Look across the country. Unthinking, heavy handed approaches taken everywhere. I can appreciate the motivating public health concerns but it was very educational to observe how our revered leaders handled being presented with emergency powers.

Sure but we each remember what happens locally more than nationally given that we were overwhelmed with actions taken by each State Government independently. And of course SA will never forget being completely shut down (ie not even allowed to leave your house!) throughout the whole state, because of a Pizza Box. That was supposed to contain a very serious variant (even stated that genomics had proven that) and which hadn't been seen before in OZ and of course which turned out to be based on a lie.

The new Premier can completely divorce himself from any of those decisions.

 

[N860CR]

Problem is that the public seems to have forgotten. Rather than standing up and asking why we had these barbaric measures (even when we were extremely highly vaccinated), still to this day we’ve got members of the public clutching their pearls and crying about masks, social distancing and “stopping the spread”.

 

[nutwood]

Problem is that the public seems to have forgotten. Rather than standing up and asking why we had these barbaric measures (even when we were extremely highly vaccinated), still to this day we’ve got members of the public clutching their pearls and crying about masks, social distancing and “stopping the spread”.

It's a fascinating demonstration of an aspect of the human race that appears to be seldom discussed. The ability to collectively wipe memories of trauma. Think about this time last year, then look about you.
In a way, there's another demonstration happening currently. Without making political comment, of all countries, surely Russia has experienced more than its fair share of trauma and yet...?

 

[N860CR]

It's a fascinating demonstration of an aspect of the human race that appears to be seldom discussed. The ability to collectively wipe memories of trauma. Think about this time last year, then look about you.
In a way, there's another demonstration happening currently. Without making political comment, of all countries, surely Russia has experienced more than its fair share of trauma and yet...?

True. But again, doesn’t suit the agenda so we ignore it (and shoot down anyone who dares to say otherwise)

 

[drron]

Though the CDC now says this.

“Persons can use information about the current level of COVID-19 impact on their community to decide which prevention behaviors to use and when (at all times or at specific times), based on their own risk for severe illness and that of members of their household, their risk tolerance, and setting-specific factors …

Education and messaging to help individual persons understand their risk for medically significant illness complements recommendations for prevention strategies based on risk.”

 

[nutwood]

True. But again, doesn’t suit the agenda so we ignore it (and shoot down anyone who dares to say otherwise)

Is it really a case of not suiting the agenda? I know people who, less than a year ago, were all masks and elbow bumps. Now it's hugs and welcome brother! They've no agenda, to them it's like something that happened in a dream and now they're awake and it's real life again.

 

[JohnK]

But that is a different thing from requiring people to wear a mask so they don’t get infected.At the height of the QLD numbers there were 5000 new case’s per week. 0.1 of the population.
So you insist on 1000 people wearing a mask because 1 might have Covid?

It's quite possible that some places would have a higher concentration of covid infections.

In my company on multiple occasions there have been multiple infections in the office obviously starting from a single infection. They stopped reporting the numbers to everyone but we know there have been multiple infections as multiple teams have been out of action for weeks at a time.

I thought my permanent work from home was approved but my boss tells me they are pushing back on people working from home. I do not want want to go back to the office even for the 2/3 days a week rotation. I have been asked to go to my GP asking for a letter to be excused from returning to office for medical and mental health reasons.

 

[nutwood]

It's quite possible that some places would have a higher concentration of covid infections.

In my company on multiple occasions there have been multiple infections in the office obviously starting from a single infection. They stopped reporting the numbers to everyone but we know there have been multiple infections as multiple teams have been out of action for weeks at a time.

I thought my permanent work from home was approved but my boss tells me they are pushing back on people working from home. I do not want want to go back to the office even for the 2/3 days a week rotation. I have been asked to go to my GP asking for a letter to be excused from returning to office for medical and mental health reasons.

I'm supportive of your position. To me, it comes under hierarchy of controls (again!). Substitution, work from home, is right up the top. When viruses are stalking the land, why would you mix unnecessarily? Obviously, if you are the cleaner, working from home might present some challenges but if you are in a role that lends itself to remote work, why not?

 

[N860CR]

Is it really a case of not suiting the agenda? I know people who, less than a year ago, were all masks and elbow bumps. Now it's hugs and welcome brother! They've no agenda, to them it's like something that happened in a dream and now they're awake and it's real life again.

I was referring to your second, somewhat more political, point. And totally agree with you on that.

 

[JohnK]

Think perhaps you are misusing the term rate. Raw number of deaths may be rising but so is population that doesnt mean rate is increasing, unless percentage of people dying each year is increasing.

Global deaths are for all causes which includes war and acts of violence which are more prevalent in some parts of the world than other.

Having had covid, i can honestly say ive had way worse colds.

Am in UK at the moment where there are no covid restrictions, havent felt unsafe once on PT or in amongst the crowds, they have moved on and its wonderful. I think ive seen about 10 people only wearing a mask.

Not misusing the term rate.

The % of people dying each year has decreased each and every year since 1950. That includes all deaths and includes changes in population.

We've now had an increase 4 years in a row. Unless the figures are doctored looks really strange.

World Death Rate 1950-2022

Chart and table of the World death rate from 1950 to 2022. United Nations projections are also included through the year 2100.

www.macrotrends.net

 

[nutwood]

If it takes a "campaign" then there's no hope.

I can't agree with this. I think there's a lot of public education that could be done with regard to general transmission of viruses. I'm not suggesting the Asian "wear masks everywhere" approach but a discreet low key education campaign, over a long period of time, could change attitudes so that heavy handed approaches are not necessary in the future.
Leaving aside what the various viruses cost the country, I don't think many people actually want to get sick and yet so many only consider Covid through the lens of restrictions. They've totally stopped thinking for themselves.

 

[ketsuzei]

They've totally stopped thinking for themselves.

Which is what happens when you try to "educate" people too much.

There are things that can be and are being done "behind the scenes" that do not require universal individual participation. That's probably enough for this stage of the pandemic.

 

[nutwood]

Which is what happens when you try to "educate" people too much.

Again I have to disagree. That's what happens when you have too much "regulation".
We're all educated as to how to get along in society. There's no law that compels you to say Good Morning to people but most people do because it's basic politeness. It's been gently drummed in over the years.

 

[ketsuzei]

We're all educated as to how to get along in society. There's no law that compels you to say Good Morning to people but most people do because it's basic politeness. It's been gently drummed in over the years.

I was educated in Japan, so you're preaching to the converted. But I still completely disagree with your "I know better, so let's do things my way" take on pandemic management.

 

[nutwood]

I was educated in Japan, so you're preaching to the converted. But I still completely disagree with your "I know better, so let's do things my way" take on pandemic management.

The title of this thread is "General discussion...". How does one discuss without discussion points? I think we'll have to agree to disagree as you appear to be heading down the ad hominem path, without contributing anything else that can be discussed.

 

[Lynda2475]

We've now had an increase 4 years in a row. Unless the figures are doctored looks really strange.

The link you posted are projections not actual and specifically call out unrelated to Covid.

However, you have to consider since 1950 populations have been aging, there are more baby boomers than gen x, so we are getting to the point where there is a greater % of population in older cohorts than previously so will see more deaths as a percentage overall. Old people die, it is not unexpected, their lives are not actually shorter than those from 70 years ago.

There is no big conspiracy to worry about.

 

[JohnK]

There is no big conspiracy to worry about.

2019 is not a projection. It is actual data and the first increase since 1950.

 

[Lynda2475]

You missed the point.

In Australia, in 1970 8% of the population were aged 65 years or older; in 2021 it was 16.5%. The higher the percentage of elderly people the higher the percentage of deaths over all.

If you look at the death rate for people in each 10 year-age cohort from 1950 to 2021 doubtful you will see a higher % of people aged 90-99 dying in 2021 than in 1950 given improved medical care (of course in real numbers will be higher because life expectancy increased for those born in 1960 vs those born in 1900).

Feel free to look for a conspiracy that isn't there.

 

[andye]

@JohnK
From the same source and based on the same projections. Life expectancy going up worldwide. As others have said the death rate is a function of demographic changes

World Life Expectancy 1950-2024

Chart and table of World life expectancy from 1950 to 2024. United Nations projections are also included through the year 2100.

www.macrotrends.net

 

[MEL_Traveller]

And yet now, no-one cares. I'm amazed at how casual so many are. I've never been paranoid about Covid but I still don't wish to share other people's viral load; even if it is just a common cold.
Classic failure in public education. If you heavily regulate something, all people focus on are the regulations.

There are current public education campaigns underway, but they don’t necessarily focus on the right message.

The campaigns focus on protecting yourself… wear a mask in high density settings, social distance where relevant.

But the actual message should be that there is a period of one to two days where you are infectious but don’t know it, and during that time ‘you’ wearing a mask and social distancing can help protect others.

Those are the messages that aren’t coming across.

No one would argue against mask wearing in appropriate settings if they understood it was a simple measure to stop *them* spreading it to others. And that limiting the spread will help our casuals maintain income, students to have teachers, and medical staff to continue their work as well as diagnose new cases.

The education campaigns are being undermined by vocal but entirely wrong messaging such as ‘masks are not effective’, ‘wearing masks has grave economic and health impacts’, ‘covid is nothing more than a mild cold’ and ‘covid only affects those who were at the end of their life anyway’.

Lockdowns worked, and were probably necessary in some form until we had the vaccine. But the vaccine is not the complete answer. They are one tool together with other measures such as distancing and drugs.