General COVID-19 Vaccine Discussion

Ari Gold

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MEL_Traveller

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News: How effective are coronavirus vaccines against the Delta variant?

Previously I asked how effective were the vaccines compared with Delta, as MLM had very low numbers. I suggest Israel sends a message that Pfizer at 64% against delta (flawed study?) is going to be awful news for would be international travel.

French adverts for getting the jab
There is no comparison: The new Australian ads are duds, dull and flat, failing send the core message: vaccinate to get places open.

I was just reading about an issue with the coughet Sandbox (pax forced to quarantine longer after a passenger on a flight tested positive on arrival) and there was a link to another article saying Sinovac was ineffective against Delta. mRNA vaccines were most effective, followed by AZ.

I tried to find the source on Sinovac through other channels... various outlets seem to be reporting that the vaccine is either 'ineffective' or - perhaps more realisticly - that the Chinese government either hasn't studied, or hasn't released, its data on effectiveness against Delta. (Appears Sinovac is 90% effective against Alpha).

If true however, Sinovac is the most widely used covid vaccine and will represent a serious problem if Delata reaches China and other countries who have relied on it.
 

burmans

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Lynda2475

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If true however, Sinovac is the most widely used covid vaccine and will represent a serious problem if Delata reaches China and other countries who have relied on it.

The poor performance of Sinovac has been noted in Indonesia who are now giving all their hospital staff a booster of Moderna as too many were still getting seriously ill and dying from Delta after two doses of Sinovac.
 

moa999

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burmans

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Interesting that the UK seems to have done the best and they are the only ones who have used significant amounts of AZ.
Done the best on what measure? If your measure is getting two doses into arms there are about 10-12 countries with similar results to the UK, some of whom are quite surprising.
 

drron

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Done the best on what measure? If your measure is getting two doses into arms there are about 10-12 countries with similar results to the UK, some of whom are quite surprising.
Surprisingly I mean hospitalisations and deaths where they are doing much better than the USA and most of Europe.
Getting Sinovac into 100% of arms seems unlikely to get you that result.
 

RooFlyer

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Wow.

Should be enough to bring a government down!

How come? Its not true. Moral to the story: Don't believe everything you read or hear on ABC (cough Norman Swan, cough) - or any media, really.
 

MEL_Traveller

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Apparently Pfizer have come out and said this is innacurate, and that no third party changed the delivery schedule.


Unsurprising perhaps? Hardly likely an international company is going to embarrass or undermine a government by admitting a third party had influence.
 

TheRealTMA

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How come? Its not true. Moral to the story: Don't believe everything you read or hear on ABC (cough Norman Swan, cough) - or any media, really.
Not quite. While the discussion between Rudd and boss of Pfizer may not have lead to any direct intervention, it doesn't negate the news posting that Rudd talked to the boss of Pfizer when Morrison had not.

And, even it if it did, Pfizer would never comment on it.
 

Lynda2475

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Rumour has it NSW has been trying to source more Pfizer by reaching out directly too. When Gladys was questioned today she didn't flat out deny it.
 
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burmans

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How come? Its not true. Moral to the story: Don't believe everything you read or hear on ABC (cough Norman Swan, cough) - or any media, really.
Given that Dutton criticised Rudd for self-aggrandising by releasing the letter the suggestion is that there definitely was a letter! And of course if you read the original article Rudd specifically said he wasn't speaking on behalf of the government, he just acted as a middle man, so he didn't in fact claim to have had a role in getting the vaccine brought earlier. Apart from perhaps getting Scommo to talk to Pfizer but I doubt he would have taken Rudd's advice anyway.
 

TheRealTMA

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They have commented on it. Debunking any influence of or by Rudd's call.
LOL. What they didn't say how incompetent they were and all praise to the ex-PMs? I'm shocked!

That's not the point you were arguing. The call happened. Whether it had any effect is agreed questionable but couldn't have hurt given the general stuff-ups.
 

RooFlyer

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That's not the point you were arguing. The call happened. Whether it had any effect is agreed questionable but couldn't have hurt given the general stuff-ups.

OK, then thats a misunderstanding, possibly from loose wording on my part. I was wasn't "arguing" that the ex PM didn't make the call - that it and the following letter happened was obvious (from Rudd's various statments) - just that the influence on the outcome from the ABC article wan't the case. We can happily disagree on this. :cool:

Given that Dutton criticised Rudd for self-aggrandising by releasing the letter the suggestion is that there definitely was a letter! And of course if you read the original article Rudd specifically said he wasn't speaking on behalf of the government, he just acted as a middle man, so he didn't in fact claim to have had a role in getting the vaccine brought earlier. Apart from perhaps getting Scommo to talk to Pfizer but I doubt he would have taken Rudd's advice anyway.

See above.

But i'm content that the claim above Wow. Should be enough to bring a government down! was just a tad over the top.
 

burmans

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LOL. What they didn't say how incompetent they were and all praise to the ex-PMs? I'm shocked!

That's not the point you were arguing. The call happened. Whether it had any effect is agreed questionable but couldn't have hurt given the general stuff-ups.
I always find corporate comms interesting, and it always pays to actually read what they say not what you want to interpret about what they say. The original letter never claimed any influence, in fact it goes to pains to point out that when KRudd contacted Dr Bourla the latter said that he would need something directly from the government. Krudd is at pains to note he is not speaking on behalf of the government.

So the rebuttal that KRudd didn't influence is no real rebuttal, given he didnt claim to do so, and the original story also notes that attempts by other to talk about it were also rebuffed. Pfizer's statement nowhere says such conversations did not happen, only that they had no influence.

Mr Morrison also told Sky News Australia he welcomed "the support of anyone who wants to assist with these things" but "ultimately, as Pfizer has made very clear it is "a contractual relationship between the Commonwealth government and Pfizer". From that statement it's pretty clear there has been some attempts at communication outside those two parties but as noted to no benefit.

So in fact the two statements really don't differ that much (unlike the reporting on them), aside from maybe KRudd trying to spin his own influence, which should be a surprise to no one.
 

mviy

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The government wanted ATAGI to meet to change their advice a few weeks ago before the government announced the full indemnity for GPs giving the vaccine to under 40s. Maybe they've only been able to meet just now and in the meantime the situation has got worse in NSW.

Considering even with a very short 6 week gap between AZ doses you still need a few weeks after that to get a decent level of protection against Delta we really need to move now to get more people to take AZ nationwide in case there are other major outbreaks so that people can make informed choices to get full protection ASAP even though taking a second AZ sooner than 6 weeks reduces effectiveness a little.

I am under 40 and took my first AZ a week ago and am in VIC. If there's an outbreak in say mid-late August or early September I could make a decision to get my second dose early to get full protection. If more people like me take AZ that will be a good thing.

If anything, I think AZ is safer for younger men than Pfizer and both are very low risk. No medication is without risk.
 

dajop

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I think we all know that the truth is somewhere in the middle in this whole Rudd/Pfizer thing. Rudd probably alerted Bourla to Australia's needs. Bourla saw an opportunity to increase quarterly income, and challenged the busienss come up with a plan to realise that opportunity, and then negotiate with the Australian government to make it all happen. (Assuming there was some financial incentive for Pfizer to bring forward deliveries). Bingo .
 

TheRealTMA

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I think we all know that the truth is somewhere in the middle in this whole Rudd/Pfizer thing. Rudd probably alerted Bourla to Australia's needs. Bourla saw an opportunity to increase quarterly income, and challenged the busienss come up with a plan to realise that opportunity, and then negotiate with the Australian government to make it all happen. (Assuming there was some financial incentive for Pfizer to bring forward deliveries). Bingo .
It’s a pity that the Feds won’t release deals and contracts sighting “commercial in confidence“ rubbish. Just like the rubbish of refusing to comment on “on water matters”. Where is parliament in all this to “keep the coughs honest“.

We need to know how they are dealing with the pandemic and their discussions with various vaccine companies.
 

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