General COVID-19 Vaccine Discussion

ethernet

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So if I suffer from VIPIT, will my local Australian GP be on it - using this guide? On these online training DVD's for Covid program purveyors - are they across this information pack? Is it in the commonwealth FAQ?

Before I get my AZ shot, I will start a blood-prick viscosity window smear log. Start with a clean windowpane/window. Each day, prick finger and wipe blood down vertically. If there is a change in platelets, it may show. Crude but effective. A vulgar summary of observations is that symptoms on days 3 7 and 8 would be a bad thing. I digress but FAQ's are often not, but carefully curated to push a barrow one way or the other, and omit inconvenient frequent questions.
 

MelMel

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So if I suffer from VIPIT, will my local Australian GP be on it - using this guide? On these online training DVD's for Covid program purveyors - are they across this information pack? Is it in the commonwealth FAQ?

Before I get my AZ shot, I will start a blood-prick viscosity window smear log. Start with a clean windowpane/window. Each day, prick finger and wipe blood down vertically. If there is a change in platelets, it may show. Crude but effective. A vulgar summary of observations is that symptoms on days 3 7 and 8 would be a bad thing. I digress but FAQ's are often not, but carefully curated to push a barrow one way or the other, and omit inconvenient frequent questions.
Hopefully they will be following the above guidelines which specifically advise against the use of Heparin. Heparin was used in all cases mentioned in the nejm article
 
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I’m looking forward to receiving my 2nd AZ jab at the end of May, and assume that there will be annual COVID vax needed from here on.
That is something that the various Health Departments haven’t as yet advised. I also presume an annual vaccination, including additional variants updates.
 

Pushka

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Heparin is sometimes injected these days before major surgery. If that’s the case then why don’t we hear more about adverse reactions? Interesting also there isn’t an outcry of people being forced to quarantine and as a result getting COVID.
 

Seat0B

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Heparin is sometimes injected these days before major surgery. If that’s the case then why don’t we hear more about adverse reactions? Interesting also there isn’t an outcry of people being forced to quarantine and as a result getting COVID.
yes I am really surprised that people who catch COVID from others in hotel quarantine are not screaming about it. I certainly would be. Maybe they are just so relieved to be home that they don;t care.

As a general principle of law, people who are not able to exercise choice about their circumstances (eg prisoners, children, people with disabilities) are generally presumed to be owed an even higher duty of care than other people are. I'm surprised that this principle does not apply to people forced into HQ, with no choice at all about where they will quarantine, but perhaps some tricky wording on a form somewhere says that you are voluntarily accepting all risks of HQ if you choose to come here - and if you won't accept, you will be returned to where you came from? I'd be really interested to hear from people who have stayed in HQ what sorts of waivers they had to sign.

I'd also be really interested to hear from the legal fraternity about the obligation owed to people in HQ to make sure that they don't leave sicker than when they entered because they catch COVID from other HQ "guests".
 

Lynda2475

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Well the latest cases are still in medi hotel serving out remainder of their HQ. Once free to leave you may well see legal action.

Did the people in Victorian and Queensland Hotels who caught Covid whilst in HQ take any legal action? They may still be building their case.

We also have no idea if some sort of compensation or hush money has been paid.

Time will tell.
 

mviy

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Well I think a reasonable step if it's proven that someone did catch COVID in hotel quarantine would be to at a minimum not charge them for the quarantine, but who knows if that is what happens or not.
 

Pushka

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Well the latest cases are still in medi hotel serving out remainder of their HQ. Once free to leave you may well see legal action.

Did the people in Victorian and Queensland Hotels who caught Covid whilst in HQ take any legal action? They may still be building their case.

We also have no idea if some sort of compensation or hush money has been paid.

Time will tell.
We had similar in SA and knew of a couple who had to serve an extra 14 days because of transfer. I don’t think anything came from them.
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Well I think a reasonable step if it's proven that someone did catch COVID in hotel quarantine would be to at a minimum not charge them for the quarantine, but who knows if that is what happens or not.
In SA they weren’t charged for the extra days but not sure of the first days.
 

Flashback

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It's difficult to prove either way where it was caught though, it could have been caught at any stage between taking your negative PCR test prior to travel to when you then show signs of it/test positive.
 

Lynda2475

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It's difficult to prove either way where it was caught though, it could have been caught at any stage between taking your negative PCR test prior to travel to when you then show signs of it/test positive.

However, in this case the 2 families arrived from different countries, on different flights, on different days. The genomic testing showed they were the same strain / related, so NSW Health know that one family caught it form the other at the hotel (assuming via aerosols or a surface or via an as yet unidentified staff member) as prior to being at the hotel they did not travel together at any point.

Thankfully to date all staff who were working at the hotel and other guests on the same floor at the same time have tested negative.

Only if the two families had been on the same flight, then of course it would be possible to claim they had been exposed at airport, on plane or in transit from airport.
 
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k_sheep

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Heparin is sometimes injected these days before major surgery. If that’s the case then why don’t we hear more about adverse reactions? Interesting also there isn’t an outcry of people being forced to quarantine and as a result getting COVID.
Because HIT (heparin induced thrombocytopenia) is an autoimmune condition, you generally need more than 1 dose to develop antibodies to it. We generally see HIT about day 4 of use in my experience. This is most often in ICU patients.
 

Pushka

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Because HIT (heparin induced thrombocytopenia) is an autoimmune condition, you generally need more than 1 dose to develop antibodies to it. We generally see HIT about day 4 of use in my experience. This is most often in ICU patients.
But it seems like AZ has a different pathway if these people haven’t had heparin but react to AZ on one dose. If an autoimmune condition then like the ones I have, there must be antibodies that can be checked?
 

k_sheep

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So it's all very very early in our understanding; yes possibly the antibodies could be checked beforehand but without stimulation (ie before vaccination or heparin) they will likely be too low a level to be detected.

I do wonder how many of the VIPIT patients have had heparin or a similar compound previously which may have sensitised them? This is all pure speculation - again it's just too early for us to know.
 
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ethernet

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I have already posted same. The Germans are obviously awaiting patent applications.
Here is a decent FAQ COVID-19 and Blood Clotting | Blood Clots,
I speculate political correctness is not saying men 45+ for AZ are good to go.
Relevant if you believe HIT and AZ Clots are close enough to be considered the same/ similar likelihood. Remember, the number of cases presenting, then tallied, is probably less than the real world numbers.
Oh, Canada

If I was running the show, I would run a report on all PBS prescriptions and advise all those given Heparin NOT to take AZ, and they have a free priority Pfizer pass. This clause is actionable. Especially if you are of European fair skinned stock/ blue eyes. It is a pity they do not publish the blood types of those who had those rare clots.
 
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teammongo

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Heparin and heparan are endogenous. It is found in skin, lung, gut and mast cells and probable has more an evolutionary immunologic than anticoagulant role. Heparin approved for use in australia is porcine mucous (pig). Recombinant human heparin has been synthesised but is not in clinical use due to expense. There is a suggestion that impurities may play a role in HITTS.

I think the appearance of HITTS and VITTS is more an inflammatory and subsequent immunologic phenomena. We typically see HITTS when there has been an endothelial (lining of the blood vessels) insult - trauma, sepsis and cardiopulmonary bypass.

TM
 
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ethernet

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Heparin and heparan are endogenous. It is found in skin, lung, gut and mast cells and probable is more has a more an evolutionary immunologic than anticoagulant role. Heparin approved for use in australia is porcine mucous (pig). Recombinant human heparin has been synthesised but is not in clinical use due to expense. There is a suggestion that impurities may play a role in HITTS.

I think the appearance of HITTS and VITTS is more an inflammatory and subsequent immunologic phenomena. We typically see HITTS when there has been an endothelial (lining of the blood vessels) insult - trauma, sepsis and cardiopulmonary bypass.

TM
Very very Informative. I have a 72 yo M who had burst aorta repair and on a laundry list of medications and 63 F who had double mastectomy and reconstruction and a broken back(months in Hospital). Canberra respiratory clinic told them they will only be eligible of AZ - complicated that they are good Catholics upset at the embryo fear. Another F had fertility treatment long term. In good conscious at their medical insults, I think selling then Pifzer is more correct. They have high exposure to nursing home workers who are in their church circle.

If Jewish, the rabbi's have no objection to porcine mucous (pig) Heparin as life saving.
 
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drron

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Except that Moderna isn't able to meet commitments to countries other than the USA.

The major problem effecting vaccine makers outside of the USA ia a shortage of vials and other items essential for manufacturing.The USA has an embargo on exporting those supplies.
 

Pushka

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Except that Moderna isn't able to meet commitments to countries other than the USA.

The major problem effecting vaccine makers outside of the USA ia a shortage of vials and other items essential for manufacturing.The USA has an embargo on exporting those supplies.
Moderna probably don't need any other country.
 

HappyFlyerFamily

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A man in Brisbane has been rushed to hospital with blood clots just days after receiving the Pfizer vaccine.

The 40-year-old man received the Pfizer shot on Sunday, 9 News reported.

He is the fourth person in Australia to develop blood clots following a COVID-19 vaccine, however the other three people received the AstraZeneca vaccine.
 

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