General COVID-19 Vaccine Discussion

MEL_Traveller

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N860CR

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MEL_Traveller

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So when do we stop? I’ve asked you this a few times, but I never get an answer.

It’s a good question. We stop when the pandemic ends, or the risks/variants drop to insignificant levels.

I’m advocating the use of covid protocols in high density [quasi-involuntary] situations where you are at the risk of infecting others. Public transport, hospitals, airports and airplanes etc.

People can avoid bars, pubs, and clubs. And choose to shop at less busy times.

Being asked to wear a mask on public transport in the middle of a pandemic isn’t unreasonable. And it helps provider a safer workplace.
 

N860CR

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It’s a good question. We stop when the pandemic ends, or the risks/variants drop to insignificant levels.

I’m advocating the use of covid protocols in high density [quasi-involuntary] situations where you are at the risk of infecting others. Public transport, hospitals, airports and airplanes etc.

People can avoid bars, pubs, and clubs. And choose to shop at less busy times.

Being asked to wear a mask on public transport in the middle of a pandemic isn’t unreasonable. And it helps provider a safer workplace.

So when is that?
 

Hvr

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There are people in essential services, some on casual hire, that need to go to work and make a living. I think it’s a reasonable degree of respect to wear a mask for 10 minutes in places like supermarkets so they can keep safe and stay healthy.

Not all of us have the benefit of fully paid sick leave.

Agree, and the numbers are getting worse by the day, The flu surge has yet to appear and initial contemporaneous reports are that a severe dose of the flu is worse than Covid; can't imagine what a combined flu/Covid illness would be like.

Combined with huge pressure from businesses to get back to the office to spend money, there is potential for a perfect storm of huge number of ill people. As noted, with no financial support people with no sick leave are basically forced to work to survive.
 

drron

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Why Experts Say People Should Wear Masks Again—Even If They're Fully Vaccinated and Boosted. The CDC says masks along with other covid protocols do help prevent the spread, even of omicron. You’d need to ask them for the data they used to support those claims.

Most other national health authorities have similar statements.
But that article supplies no evidence. If you go to the various US States figures there is no difference between States with a mask mandate and those without. California,Pennsylvania and New York had mask mandates but local agencies dropped them after the federal court decision mid April but the States reimposed them. The Health Department in LA proudly proclaimed that mask compliance was 9%5 on public transport. did that make a difference.
1653262552427.png .
1653262733218.png .

1653262770331.png .

Now see if you can see any difference in those numbers with Florida with no mask mandate and incidentally the largest percentage of their population over 65 in the USA. That is a higher proportion of at risk people.
1653262916720.png .

And everyone was predicting disaster in the UK after freedom Day July 31 2021 when all restrictions were dropped. but basically little difference in case numbers until mid december - 4.5 months later when around the world cases started rising with Omicron.
1653263106674.png .

And there are plenty of countries where mask mandates have been dropped.
 

tgh

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There are masks and masks.
A mask that retains a high % of expectorated covid is uncommon and not even recommended in au ….afaik…
I am all for minimising Covid viral load in the community but opine that the vast majority of folks are happy with the risk profile of
the current settings.
 

MEL_Traveller

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But that article supplies no evidence. If you go to the various US States figures there is no difference between States with a mask mandate and those without. California,Pennsylvania and New York had mask mandates but local agencies dropped them after the federal court decision mid April but the States reimposed them. The Health Department in LA proudly proclaimed that mask compliance was 9%5 on public transport. did that make a difference.
.
.

.

Now see if you can see any difference in those numbers with Florida with no mask mandate and incidentally the largest percentage of their population over 65 in the USA. That is a higher proportion of at risk people.
.

And everyone was predicting disaster in the UK after freedom Day July 31 2021 when all restrictions were dropped. but basically little difference in case numbers until mid december - 4.5 months later when around the world cases started rising with Omicron.
.

And there are plenty of countries where mask mandates have been dropped.

The CDC’s position is that masks+other basic protocols helps prevent the spread of covid 19. The article I linked didn’t lay out that evidence, it was directly linking CDC advice.

For the underlying evidence you’d need to contact the CDC, or in Australia the ferderal department of health, who also has the same advice.
 

N860CR

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There are people in essential services, some on casual hire, that need to go to work and make a living. I think it’s a reasonable degree of respect to wear a mask for 10 minutes in places like supermarkets so they can keep safe and stay healthy.

Not all of us have the benefit of fully paid sick leave.

That’s not what I asked, is it. You’re very good at deflecting.
 

OATEK

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Why Experts Say People Should Wear Masks Again—Even If They're Fully Vaccinated and Boosted. The CDC says masks along with other covid protocols do help prevent the spread, even of omicron. You’d need to ask them for the data they used to support those claims.

Most other national health authorities have similar statements.
Herein lies the key issue as far as I am concerned - Should! If we kept mandates until there is some agreement between the pro-wearers and the pro-maskless across the world, then it might make a difference. But right now I don't think there is an appetite for such a mandate, and besides the infection/hospitalisation/death profiles vary so much across nations and continents that it could continue for years before there is some sort of global agreement on dropping mandates.

I think it is perfectly reasonable for people to decide to wear a decent mask to protect themselves, and could do so on planes. Similarly, staff in shops, restaurants, aircraft could decide to keep wearing masks because of the sheer number of different customers they go face to face with each day. But my view is that customers/passengers should be free to make their own determination about wearing a mask at this point.

But of course none of this is on topic, because it is vaccination that makes the biggest, and measurable, difference. Having caught covid after three vax shots, I coped well despite a number of "comorbidities". Chatted to Dr about the need for the 4th shot, and he recommends I have it about 6 weeks before the next OS trip to maximise impact at the time of departure. I will wear a mask on the aircraft if I have to, but would rather not.
 

MelMel

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Any opinions on choice of 4th shot? My mum is due for hers and can have Pfizer at her gp clinic or Moderna at the pharmac_. She has had 2 AZ and one Moderna so far
 

mviy

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Any opinions on choice of 4th shot? My mum is due for hers and can have Pfizer at her gp clinic or Moderna at the pharmac_. She has had 2 AZ and one Moderna so far
There is the view that mix and match gives higher immunity however the Moderna dose is higher than Pfizer so that may more than outweigh that. Any fourth dose is better than none. It'll give a temporary boost to protection against catching COVID and hopefully a much longer protection against serious illness.
Chatted to Dr about the need for the 4th shot, and he recommends I have it about 6 weeks before the next OS trip to maximise impact at the time of departure.
Hmmm. I guess I should get on with having mine if that's the recommended timeframe. I'm going for some weeks so don't want the protection to wear off whilst I'm away.
 

marki

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It’s not so much a case of following medical advice though… other countries that have abandoned covid protocols are doing so because the public have basically given up and aren’t following the advice anyway.

I’m not sure that’s the benchmark to aim for :(

The medical advice remains unequivocal… masks+social distancing+good hand hygiene = reduction in the spread of covid 19.

Appreciate some people don’t want to wear masks, but many do when it comes to ‘forced’ high density environments.

Don't take my word for it! Take the word of an industrial hygienist with 45 years on the Business. Attached a link to Mr Petty who successfully overturned many mask mandates in the US of A.

As an aside here I am in LHR and first thing I notice no cough ing masks not even on planes or The airports. One cough science it is a political Garb that's all.
 

marki

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When you take a people's freedom away, you better give us good and proper evidence on why it needs to be done. That evidence has been poor with no Double-blinded trials. You require good evidence enough to convince that the mask mandates and Vaccination mandates are without any side effects. A phase three trial with no medical protection if anything goes wrong gives curry to the pharmaceutical company to make more profits.

Could you not be asking us for evidence on why we should be restoring our fundamental rights?
 

MEL_Traveller

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When you take a people's freedom away, you better give us good and proper evidence on why it needs to be done. That evidence has been poor with no Double-blinded trials. You require good evidence enough to convince that the mask mandates and Vaccination mandates are without any side effects. A phase three trial with no medical protection if anything goes wrong gives curry to the pharmaceutical company to make more profits.

Could you not be asking us for evidence on why we should be restoring our fundamental rights?
I think the fundamental right to a safe workplace probably trumps our rights not to have to wear a mask for 5 minutes?
 

MEL_Traveller

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Don't take my word for it! Take the word of an industrial hygienist with 45 years on the Business. Attached a link to Mr Petty who successfully overturned many mask mandates in the US of A.

As an aside here I am in LHR and first thing I notice no cough ing masks not even on planes or The airports. One cough science it is a political Garb that's all.
Phil Kerpen is on record stating 'mRNA shots are being marketed as vaccines'.
 

marki

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Oh wow Mask are not even on the hierarchy of control! And right at the bottom are respirstors so please wear those to work🙃 if you believe the stuff you write without any evidence. Also Mr Petty not Phil Kern!
 
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marki

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Oh wow Masks are not even on the hierarchy of control! And right at the bottom of the list and least effective are respirators ie the mask that is attached to your face like a pilots breathing oxygen breathing apparatus - so please wear that to work🙃 if you believe the stuff you write - and may I say without any shred of evidence.

Also Mr Petty not Phil Kern!
 
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