General COVID-19 Vaccine Discussion

[drron]

The authors of both studies are more suited, date I say qualified, to form a conclusion than your opinion, and AFF is not the place to promote misinformation or unsupported opinions.

My opinions are not unsupported and not misinformation. I have posted other links on this subject including recently the Moderna study on 5-11 year olds which only just got to 50% efficacy for a short while.
And in this article the authors also admit 2 other articles in JAMA are not as confident on vaccines for 5-11 year olds.
It is the way of real science. It always needs to be questioned.

 

[TheRealTMA]

My opinions are not unsupported and not misinformation. I have posted other links on this subject including recently the Moderna study on 5-11 year olds which only just got to 50% efficacy for a short while.
And in this article the authors also admit 2 other articles in JAMA are not as confident on vaccines for 5-11 year olds.
It is the way of real science. It always needs to be questioned.

Yes results always have to be tested by further study and research, not by misinterpreted opinions. And AFF is NOT the place for misinformation and opinions unsupported by research.

 

[drron]

Yes results always have to be tested by further study and research, not by misinterpreted opinions. And AFF is NOT the place for misinformation and opinions unsupported by research.

Once again you demonstrate scant knowledge of the practice of medicine. Studies are in fact routinely torn apart and often in the MSM.
In fact I went tp Twitter to see what was being said. I follow vPeter Collignon who is an Infectios disease physician and respected around the world fo his work on influenza. His has been a sane voice in the last 2.5 years.

Dr Peter Collignon

Infectious diseases, influenza, swine flu, microbiology, public health risks, water contamination. Healthcare associated infections, Infection Control, Staphylococcus aureus infection (including MRSA), intravascular catheter infections, antibiotic resistance, antibiotic use in food animals...

www.anu.edu.au

Well lo and behold he has retweeted a comment basically the same as I initially made which you label misinformation but he believes is worth consideration.


Not surprisingly I will take his opinion well above yours.

 

[TheRealTMA]

Once again you demonstrate scant knowledge of the practice of medicine. Studies are in fact routinely torn apart and often in the MSM.
In fact I went tp Twitter to see what was being said. I follow vPeter Collignon who is an Infectios disease physician and respected around the world fo his work on influenza. His has been a sane voice in the last 2.5 years.
..

Conclusions and Relevance In the Omicron era, the effectiveness against cases of BNT162b2 declined rapidly for children, particularly those 5-11 years. However, vaccination of children 5-11 years was protective against severe disease and is recommended. These results highlight the potential need to study alternative vaccine dosing for children and the continued importance layered protections, including mask wearing, to prevent infection and transmission."

Further: https://ausvaxsafety.org.au/covid-19-vaccine-well-tolerated-children-ausvaxsafety-data-show

 

[drron]

Conclusions and Relevance In the Omicron era, the effectiveness against cases of BNT162b2 declined rapidly for children, particularly those 5-11 years. However, vaccination of children 5-11 years was protective against severe disease and is recommended. These results highlight the potential need to study alternative vaccine dosing for children and the continued importance layered protections, including mask wearing, to prevent infection and transmission."

Further: https://ausvaxsafety.org.au/covid-19-vaccine-well-tolerated-children-ausvaxsafety-data-show

As my main point was vaccinating the under 5s that is not relevant.
And can you tell me just how many healthy 5-11 year olds will be prevented from having severe Covid and how many of the males might get vaccine induced myocarditis?

 

[TheRealTMA]

As my main point was vaccinating the under 5s that is not relevant.
And can you tell me just how many healthy 5-11 year olds will be prevented from having severe Covid and how many of the males might get vaccine induced myocarditis?

 

[straitman]

No querying your information other than saying if you are going to put these types of video up then maybe a date stamp would be useful. I have seen Peter and many others change their views with time so it's actually important IMHO. ie is this a recent or older video?

 

[TheRealTMA]

No querying your information other than saying if you are going to put these types of video up then maybe a date stamp would be useful. I have seen Peter and many others change their views with time so it's actually important IMHO. ie is this a recent or older video?

10 December 2021. I believe.

But this is somewhat missing the point. The "negative-effectiveness" graph above is being misinterpreted as being against the vaccination of children. It does not mean this. Lots of cofactors and confounders involved in the interpretation. See my previous post on colclusions of the study.

and ps: I'm not promoting anything here but arguring for the cesation of misinformation posts on CV vaccines on AFF.

 

[straitman]

10 December 2021. I believe.

But thus is somewhat missing the point. The "negative-effectiveness" graph above is being misinterpreted as being against the vaccination of children. It does not mean this. Lots of cofactors and confounders involved in the interpretation. See my previous post on colclusions of the study.

and ps: I'm not promoting anything here but arguring for the cesation of misinformation posts on CV vaccines on AFF.

Hence my question of video dates. Is that information from 6 months still current? As I mentioned Peter has changed his tune on some of these things.

A difference of opinion is not necessarily misinformation.

 

[marki]

I hate mandates I hate Qantas for enforcing mask mandates and vaxx mandates esp for international travel F-them for being so behind the curve when others are way ahead.

 

[Flashback]

I hate mandates I hate Qantas for enforcing mask mandates and vaxx mandates esp for international travel F-them for being so behind the curve when others are way ahead.

You're back .. ?

 

[marki]

yep with a vengeance hate to talk to stupid people it hurts. (hello Allen Joyce)

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I hate mandates I hate Qantas for enforcing mask mandates and vaxx mandates esp for international travel F-them for being so behind the curve when others are way ahead.

It’s not so much a case of following medical advice though… other countries that have abandoned covid protocols are doing so because the public have basically given up and aren’t following the advice anyway.

I’m not sure that’s the benchmark to aim for

The medical advice remains unequivocal… masks+social distancing+good hand hygiene = reduction in the spread of covid 19.

Appreciate some people don’t want to wear masks, but many do when it comes to ‘forced’ high density environments.

 

[drron]

It’s not so much a case of following medical advice though… other countries that have abandoned covid protocols are doing so because the public have basically given up and aren’t following the advice anyway.

I’m not sure that’s the benchmark to aim for

The medical advice remains unequivocal… masks+social distancing+good hand hygiene = reduction in the spread of covid 19.

Appreciate some people don’t want to wear masks, but many do when it comes to ‘forced’ high density environments.

But as i said in another thread Taiwan does all that. a mask mandate has been back in place since January. They have been the poster country for following the medical advice. But here is their graph.
.

And to get that straight line basically until the last 2 months they had far less lockdown than us. schools closed for ~ 6 weeks and that mainly was holidays. Never was the whole country isolated to their homes. Just locally if an outbreak. Restaurants not closed nationwide.

But now higher case numbers than Australia even though ~ 1 million less population.
You can run but you can never hide from covid.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

But as i said in another thread Taiwan does all that. a mask mandate has been back in place since January. They have been the poster country for following the medical advice. But here is their graph.
View attachment 278110.

And to get that straight line basically until the last 2 months they had far less lockdown than us. schools closed for ~ 6 weeks and that mainly was holidays. Never was the whole country isolated to their homes. Just locally if an outbreak. Restaurants not closed nationwide.

But now higher case numbers than Australia even though ~ 1 million less population.
You can run but you can never hide from covid.

As we know from Australia - a mask mandate doesn't mean compliance.

A quick search for vaccination rates suggests only 80% of taiwan's population have had two doses, compared to 95% in Australia?

Lots of variables.

Are you saying that masks+social distancing+good hygiene do not help reduce the spread?

 

[OATEK]

It’s not so much a case of following medical advice though… other countries that have abandoned covid protocols are doing so because the public have basically given up and aren’t following the advice anyway.

I’m not sure that’s the benchmark to aim for

The medical advice remains unequivocal… masks+social distancing+good hand hygiene = reduction in the spread of covid 19.

Appreciate some people don’t want to wear masks, but many do when it comes to ‘forced’ high density environments.

Yes, absolutely. But with Omicron, it seems to make so much less difference.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Yes, absolutely. But with Omicron, it seems to make so much less difference.

Agree it seems to be making less of a difference… but is that because people are not following the mandates now, when they were [largely] before?

Hardly anyone was wearing masks or social distancing in the UK or Europe last month, and of course omicron is/was rampant. But what if there was ~100% compliance with covid protocols?

 

[drron]

As we know from Australia - a mask mandate doesn't mean compliance.

A quick search for vaccination rates suggests only 80% of taiwan's population have had two doses, compared to 95% in Australia?

Lots of variables.

Are you saying that masks+social distancing+good hygiene do not help reduce the spread?

So why did their approach work for so long. Taiwan would have one of the greatest uptakes of mask wearing. much more likely than us to wash hands and social distance. So they really don't support with Omicron that those things make much of a difference.
And it wasn't until May 2021 that Taiwan actually started their vaccine uptake in earnest. And do you really think the extra 15% vaccine uptake is that significant. added to which their vaccine having been given later should have had less waning.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

So why did their approach work for so long. Taiwan would have one of the greatest uptakes of mask wearing. much more likely than us to wash hands and social distance. So they really don't support with Omicron that those things make much of a difference.
And it wasn't until May 2021 that Taiwan actually started their vaccine uptake in earnest. And do you really think the extra 15% vaccine uptake is that significant. added to which their vaccine having been given later should have had less waning.

We’d need to see the data on the points raised first para.

An extra 15% could well make a difference. With the population of taiwan… an extra million or so people not fully vaccinated could mean faster and wider spread.

But the issue is masks+social distancing+good hygiene. The medical advice is that it works. Therefore back to the OP’s point not liking qantas… i get some people don’t want it, but it’s for our own good and I support it in high density settings that i don’t really have a choice to go to or not (airports, public transport and supermarkets vs a club restaurant, or stadium etc)

 

[drron]

We’d need to see the data on the points raised first para.

An extra 15% could well make a difference. With the population of taiwan… an extra million or so people not fully vaccinated could mean faster and wider spread.

But the issue is masks+social distancing+good hygiene. The medical advice is that it works. Therefore back to the OP’s point not liking qantas… i get some people don’t want it, but it’s for our own good and I support it in high density settings that i don’t really have a choice to go to or not (airports, public transport and supermarkets vs a club restaurant, or stadium etc)

So give me the evidence of where it works with Omicron.