Flight Centre refunds for cancelled flights

[Jennifer Cook]

FC has received commission from the airline for selling the ticket = covering costs + wages + profit. If the airline cancels and FC isn't happy losing that commission they should take it up with the airline.

$300 cancellation fee for refunding money when an airline cancels your flight? Even if that whole process took an hour, that would be $50 (staff wages plus on-costs). So the $250 balance is pure profit.

Post automatically merged: Apr 10, 2020

For the record, did anyone take a copy of the previous cancellation clauses? That could come in handy down the track!

Travel agent services are partially an insurance policy: you pay for the guarantee of support if and when you need it - they (the good ones) advocate for you in a situation where you mind need urgent repatriation, get you priority access to the airlines to make reschedules, proactively anticipate flight changes during world events, and basically hold your hand IF you need it.

I'm not sure you understand the concept of PROFIT.... Profit is Income less Expenses. If Expenses are greater than Income, there is NO profit. If you want full refunds, then be your own agent, and book your own flights direct with the airline. If you want service, be prepared to pay for it.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Travel agent services are partially an insurance policy: you pay for the guarantee of support if and when you need it - they (the good ones) advocate for you in a situation where you mind need urgent repatriation, get you priority access to the airlines to make reschedules, proactively anticipate flight changes during world events, and basically hold your hand IF you need it.

I'm not sure you understand the concept of PROFIT.... Profit is Income less Expenses. If Expenses are greater than Income, there is NO profit. If you want full refunds, then be your own agent, and book your own flights direct with the airline. If you want service, be prepared to pay for it.

Maybe a good boutique agent will do all the things you mention. Many 'chain' travel agents these days, either in-store or on-line simply do not offer that level of service. We have many reports on AFF, and elsewhere on the net, where airlines change or cancel flights and no one notifies anyone, the airline blames the agent, the agent blames the airline.

How many times have passengers been stuck when the airline could resolve the issue in a matter of minutes, but the passenger is told to 'talk to the agent'. I'd say it might be 50/50 in terms of the benefits these days of using an agent vs doing it yourself.

I understand 'profit'. Chains like Flight Centre have made their money when I initially book and pay for my ticket. They get their commission and booking fees. End of transaction, profit made. Then the airline cancels. New transaction. It doesn't cost Flight Centre $300 to process the refund. So anything above actual costs is profit. In this case, I'd possibly allow $50 to process the refund, and that's being generous. The rest is pure profit for FC

Actually, no, they are your agent and your advocate if you need help in the course of your travels. If you don't want that service, book direct, it's your choice.

At law, agents are an agent for the airline. The airline is providing the service, and the contract is between the passenger and the airline, not between the agent and the airline, or between the agent and the passenger. The agent is selling seats for the airline, making them their agent, not ours.

 

[Dvg]

I think Graeme Turner’s nickname may go some way to providing an answer.....

Post automatically merged: Apr 11, 2020

Oops, typo, Graham....

 

[Flyinfish]

The only reason I know my flights with Etihad were cancelled is because Etihad emailed me. I've heard nothing from Aunt Betty. I also didn't know what the fare rules for my flights are because Aunt Betty neglected to pass this on as well. No way to contact them except a phone queue for over a hour (if you're lucky) and then they hang up on you if your flight is more than 24 hours from departure. I'm supposed to pay $250 for this 'service'???

 

[IrishPete]

This thread seems to have gone substantially off topic. I used a travel agent because they had cheap flights available that suit my schedule. If I could get those prices and schedule direct through Etihad, of course I would have done so. I don't know why this is the case - presumably agents are able to get better deals and block off seats from being sold to the public.

So I used a travel agent. And I have a contract with them. End of story.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

So I used a travel agent. And I have a contract with them. End of story.

Contract for what exactly? They don't operate the flights or the hotels. There is no contract to 'enforce'... as we can see for CV-19, if the airline cancels, the airline cancels. If you had a 'contract' with a travel agent you'd be looking to enforce that contract... which of course you can't. Some agents such as webjet don't even guarantee the price - they charge extra for that service as 'insurance' via their 'fare lock'.

 

[serfty]

The agent did not cancel the flights when I asked and contacted me at the boarding time of the first flight to advise she had not cancelled the flights - how distressing.

I suspect the agent was procrastinating losing her personal commission ... $12000 in fares would represent a significant amount.

 

[IrishPete]

Contract for what exactly? They don't operate the flights or the hotels. There is no contract to 'enforce'... as we can see for CV-19, if the airline cancels, the airline cancels. If you had a 'contract' with a travel agent you'd be looking to enforce that contract... which of course you can't. Some agents such as webjet don't even guarantee the price - they charge extra for that service as 'insurance' via their 'fare lock'.

I pay money for a service. I have a contract - written or implied - with the provider of that service.

In this case, my opinion is that I have a contract with BYOJet for the provision of tickets for flights to Dublin from Melbourne on specific dates and times with Etihad. I have agreed to accept minor changes without recourse, and to have the right to veto major changes. That's in their terms and conditions. The airline has now cancelled the flights. The travel agent is unable to provide the service, therefore they are obligated to refund me. Without penalty. If they feel they've been dudded, they can take it up with Etihad or the Australian government, because it is their actions who have cost my travel agent, not mine. I won't accept a credit minus some booking fees, with an airline that may not exist in a few months, and for an amount that may not pay for a future flight.

You seem to completely disagree with this characterisation. That's your prerogative, but I don't take legal advice from randoms on the internet. I'll let me credit card provider, my travel insurer or the NSW small claims tribunal sort it out.

 

[jarman_ah]

This thread seems to have gone substantially off topic. I used a travel agent because they had cheap flights available that suit my schedule. If I could get those prices and schedule direct through Etihad, of course I would have done so. I don't know why this is the case - presumably agents are able to get better deals and block off seats from being sold to the public.

So I used a travel agent. And I have a contract with them. End of story.

That is a fair statement if Flight Centre makes it very clear, from the outset, that there will be fees and charges payable to them in the event of changes, etc, and you agree to be bound by that condition. But I have lost count of the number of people, some of them Flight Centre users, who, when I told them about these charges, said, "Really? I had no idea!" Now in some cases, it may well be that these people simply didn't listen to something they didn't want to hear... but in ALL cases? I suspect that Flight Centre would rather not make a big deal of this side of their operation, and, if anything useful is to come out of this now-very-long thread, it might be that Flight Centre would, in future, agree to have a prominent display in every branch detailing all the fees and charges and the conditions in which they are payable. Sort of like the warning on cigarette packets!

 

[IrishPete]

That is a fair statement if Flight Centre makes it very clear, from the outset, that there will be fees and charges payable to them in the event of changes, etc, and you agree to be bound by that condition. But I have lost count of the number of people, some of them Flight Centre users, who, when I told them about these charges, said, "Really? I had no idea!" Now in some cases, it may well be that these people simply didn't listen to something they didn't want to hear... but in ALL cases? I suspect that Flight Centre would rather not make a big deal of this side of their operation, and, if anything useful is to come out of this now-very-long thread, it might be that Flight Centre would, in future, agree to have a prominent display in every branch detailing all the fees and charges and the conditions in which they are payable. Sort of like the warning on cigarette packets!

I don't think I paid any attention to the BYOJet cancellation and change fees, because the flights were basically non-refundable and non-changeable by me. So no cancellation or change was ever going be at my behest.

 

[jarman_ah]

I don't think I paid any attention to the BYOJet cancellation and change fees, because the flights were basically non-refundable and non-changeable by me. So no cancellation or change was ever going be at my behest.

Here's a point that maybe a Flight Centre expert (or ex-employee) can enlighten me on: if you did buy one of those non-refundable flights and cancelled, coulr Flight Centre then impose their extra charges as well, so that you actually had to pay considerably more than the full price of the ticket to cancel? Wouldn't that mean Flight Centre would send you a bill after the event?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I pay money for a service. I have a contract - written or implied - with the provider of that service.

In this case, my opinion is that I have a contract with BYOJet for the provision of tickets for flights to Dublin from Melbourne on specific dates and times with Etihad. I have agreed to accept minor changes without recourse, and to have the right to veto major changes. That's in their terms and conditions. The airline has now cancelled the flights. The travel agent is unable to provide the service, therefore they are obligated to refund me. Without penalty. If they feel they've been dudded, they can take it up with Etihad or the Australian government, because it is their actions who have cost my travel agent, not mine. I won't accept a credit minus some booking fees, with an airline that may not exist in a few months, and for an amount that may not pay for a future flight.

You seem to completely disagree with this characterisation. That's your prerogative, but I don't take legal advice from randoms on the internet. I'll let me credit card provider, my travel insurer or the NSW small claims tribunal sort it out.

I agree FC should not charge a cancellation fee where the airline cancels. That has been my position the whole way through this thread.

The discussion evolved a bit to talk about whether a travel agent is an agent for the passenger or the airline. Ironically Flight Centre sets it out pretty clearly Booking Terms and Conditions | Flight Centre :

Agency:​

We act as an agent for, and sell various travel related products as agent on behalf of, numerous transport, accommodation and other service providers, such as airlines, coach, rail and cruise line operators, as well as all of our wholesalers. Any services we provide to you are collateral to that agency relationship. Our obligation to you is to (and you expressly authorise us to) make travel bookings on your behalf and to arrange relevant contracts between you and travel service providers. We exercise care in the selection of reputable service providers, but we are not ourselves a provider of travel services and have no control over, or liability for, the services provided by third parties. All bookings are made on your behalf subject to the terms and conditions, including conditions of carriage and limitations of liability, imposed by these service providers. We can provide you with copies of the relevant service provider terms and conditions on request. Your legal rights in connection with the provision of travel services are against the specific provider and, except to the extent a problem is caused by fault on our part, are not against us. Specifically, if for any reason (excluding fault on our part) any travel service provider is unable to provide the services for which you have contracted, your rights are against that provider and not against us.​

BYOjet's terms and conditions are exactly the same, just worded slightly differently.

You are paying them to make a booking on your behalf. They will argue they made the booking, and cannot be held responsible for any loss through the non provision of that service. What their terms and conditions don't cover is refunds where the airline cancels and cannot offer alternative arrangements. Which would be pretty much unheard of until we got to CV-19

 

[Pug1]

This has gone way off my original question, has anyone actually got a refund from FC? As I said in an earlier post I lodged a dispute for the two Amex charges and Amex has now given me a credit for one of them. They are emailing me but can't seem to grasp the fact that I disputed both charges not only the one they have credited. However I will leave it a day or so and check back with them. Hopefully this will put pressure on FC to actually respond to me and deal with the matter. Haven't heard from them since cancelling via email on 19 March.

 

[IrishPete]

Pug1 did you write that in this thread or a different one?

This has gone way off my original question, has anyone actually got a refund from FC? As I said in an earlier post I lodged a dispute for the two Amex charges and Amex has now given me a credit for one of them. They are emailing me but can't seem to grasp the fact that I disputed both charges not only the one they have credited. However I will leave it a day or so and check back with them. Hopefully this will put pressure on FC to actually respond to me and deal with the matter. Haven't heard from them since cancelling via email on 19 March.

 

[IrishPete]

Pug1 did you write that in this thread or a different one?

This has gone way off my original question, has anyone actually got a refund from FC? As I said in an earlier post I lodged a dispute for the two Amex charges and Amex has now given me a credit for one of them. They are emailing me but can't seem to grasp the fact that I disputed both charges not only the one they have credited. However I will leave it a day or so and check back with them. Hopefully this will put pressure on FC to actually respond to me and deal with the matter. Haven't heard from them since cancelling via email on 19 March.

Post automatically merged: Apr 12, 2020

Pug1 did you write that in this thread or a different one?

This has gone way off my original question, has anyone actually got a refund from FC? As I said in an earlier post I lodged a dispute for the two Amex charges and Amex has now given me a credit for one of them. They are emailing me but can't seem to grasp the fact that I disputed both charges not only the one they have credited. However I will leave it a day or so and check back with them. Hopefully this will put pressure on FC to actually respond to me and deal with the matter. Haven't heard from them since cancelling via email on 19 March.

 

[Pug1]

Pug1 did you write that in this thread or a different one?

Post automatically merged: Apr 12, 2020

Pug1 did you write that in this thread or a different one?

Hi Irish Pete, I started this thread on April 1 and so mine is the first post.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

This has gone way off my original question, has anyone actually got a refund from FC? As I said in an earlier post I lodged a dispute for the two Amex charges and Amex has now given me a credit for one of them. They are emailing me but can't seem to grasp the fact that I disputed both charges not only the one they have credited. However I will leave it a day or so and check back with them. Hopefully this will put pressure on FC to actually respond to me and deal with the matter. Haven't heard from them since cancelling via email on 19 March.

According to this thread on whirlpool FC is telling some folk it will take up to 12 weeks for them to process refunds: Airlines cancel - Flight Centre still charge $350 - Air Travel - Travel - Whirlpool Forums

Disputing the charge with AMEX will be for the full cost of the booking, and won't afford FC their cancellation fee. So FC may dispute the chargeback with AMEX.

 

[p--and--t]

The most perplexing part for me is (simplified)

$55 to search and find alternatives in appropriate classes and destinations or alternative destinations advise approximate costs of changes, receive new selections from traveller and reconfirm flights and seats are still available, add new flights to the booking, remove previous flights from the booking, recalculate the cost of the new overall schedule, send confirmation of the new arrangements and costing to the traveller, collect and receipt the additional fares (lets face it nothing has gone down in price)

$300 (per person on the exact same booking/PNR) to open the booking see the flights are cancelled, send refund request to the airline.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The most perplexing part for me is (simplified)

$55 to search and find alternatives in appropriate classes and destinations or alternative destinations advise approximate costs of changes, receive new selections from traveller and reconfirm flights and seats are still available, add new flights to the booking, remove previous flights from the booking, recalculate the cost of the new overall schedule, send confirmation of the new arrangements and costing to the traveller, collect and receipt the additional fares (lets face it nothing has gone down in price)

I suspect the $55 means they will also get their commission a second time from the airline the passenger ends up flying with. Plus all the ancillary commissions such as travel insurance.

 

[jarman_ah]

The most perplexing part for me is (simplified)

$55 to search and find alternatives in appropriate classes and destinations or alternative destinations advise approximate costs of changes, receive new selections from traveller and reconfirm flights and seats are still available, add new flights to the booking, remove previous flights from the booking, recalculate the cost of the new overall schedule, send confirmation of the new arrangements and costing to the traveller, collect and receipt the additional fares (lets face it nothing has gone down in price)

$300 (per person on the exact same booking/PNR) to open the booking see the flights are cancelled, send refund request to the airline.

I guess that's because if the flight is cancelled, they're not going to get the expected commission from the airline; so, of course, they look around to see who they can get it from. Very lucky, isn't it, that the theatrical agents of the world didn't turn on the production companies who had to cancel because of the virus, and say, "Well, we won't get our 15% from the artists who are out of work, so we'll make you pay it." Well, of course, REPUTABLE agents wouldn't even think of doing a thing like that, would they?