Fat flyers

[ozbeachbabe]

About 20 years ago a 2nd cousin of mine was in a motorbike accident & had to have a skin graft which required her leg to be kept straight on her SYD/MEL flight with AN.

What AN did for her was charge a fare & the ticket was made out in the name of "leg support". The fare was 50% off the full economy fare which equalled a child fare as this was when the 2 airline agreement was in place ie pre deregulation.

The window seat in front of her was folded down enabling her to stretch out the leg as per medical advice.

It was also AN policy that if the flight was not full, the pax would receive a refund for the leg support ticket. The flight wasn't full & she did receive a refund so the end result was that she got two seats for the price of one.

I don't see why airlines could not offer this facility & charge people for a seat in the name of "personal comfort" for whatever reason whether they be large in stature, claustrophobic or for whatever the reason may be. With fare structures the way they are now ie domestically everyone pays the same fare & no discount for kids the cost of the "personal comfort" seat should be the same price as what the pax is paying for their seat.

Internationally it could be the same price as the applicable child fare if children pay 67% or 75% of the airfare.

The airline could refund the personal comfort ticket if it was not a full flight which would encourage more people to buy a seat rather than avoid it thereby making someone else's trip hell. It would probably wise to ensure the larger person was in an aisle seat eg a 'D' or a 'G' seat if on a B747 or A380 with the 'E' or 'F' inner seat block so they don't have to climb over someone or have someone climb over them. It would also be a safety issue as they would not be blocking anyone from getting out of their seat in the event of emergency.

 

[harvyk]

The armrests must be down rule I think is a good one, I also believe that there should be a rule that you must be able to be fully self contained in the seat without any part of you going over the arm rest(s), be it because you have a small frame, or be it that you are able to squeeze yourself into a shape which doesn't go over it doesn't matter. If you can not satisfy those conditions then you must buy a second ticket.

 

[Berlin]

It's become socially acceptable to be fat.
Until that changes, this problem isnt going to be fixed.

I think this is the core of the problem and I also think given the immense costs that we all bear for others' laziness and or stupidity, this kind of mindset will switch in the next two or so decades. I'm certainly not a slimmy either and could never go past my mom's home-cooked German meals but I still managed to train off around 30 kilos in less than a year through hard exercise and leaving behind those crunchy fries (unless in the Flounge or on special occasions that is ). Bootcamp three times a week at 5am hasn't been easy, I tell you but no one said it would be.

To the point: I really think the mindset will move from a PC-kinda you cannot discriminate attitude towards a more smoking-like "Their fault, if they just eat what they please- as long as it's not my health cover paying for it!" attitude in our society. And that's not a bad thing in my eyes as like with quitting smoking, there's something every single individual can do if they so want. And if after all that, you still become diabetic or what ever else, then I'm more than happy to pay for that as much as I'd pay for someone getting some cancer totally innocently.

 

[smit0847]

This argument has raged for years - those who are thin think fat people should have to buy 2 seats, those who are fat think its unfair as there is 'always some reason'.

Its a terrible situation for everyone - the check-in person doesnt want to raise it, the fat person is obviously aware they are fat and their neighbours dont want to sit next to them.

I've personally never been stuck next to someone huge (fortunately) but if it was a long flight I would be asking to move the second I could and clearly explaining the problem once out of ear-shot of the fat person. If they could not get the arm-rest down I would be pressing for an upgrade if there were no Y seats available - I cant think of a much better reason!

Yes its not fair that people with excess weight dont have to pay excess baggage but airlines would rather suffer the cost than suffer alienating everyone who is obese by charging them for being fat.

 

[Berlin]

airlines would rather suffer the cost than suffer alienating everyone who is obese by charging them for being fat.

Especially as the quota of fat old men is significantly higher at the front of the plane in my experience

 

[mr_osborne]

My most recent experience with this was when I was boarding behind a rarther large woman.

I was in row 3, so I was rather disappointed when she stopped at row 3... She then proceded to take a while t upload, and struggled to slide into the seat, just to get out of the aisle... Fortunately, the CSM came over, and pointed out to her that her ticket read row 27, not 3.... I had been held up by her in the priority line as well....

But I was just glad to have my own personal space.

 

[ozmille]

Especially as the quota of fat old men is significantly higher at the front of the plane in my experience

but they are usually in the bigger seats I am lucky enough to have only had to sit next to a large person with armrest raised out of necessity on a Toronto to Montreal flight but that was bad enough. I am very glad I usually get to travel J where this is less of a problem.

 

[juddles]

Why did you raise the armrests in the first place? .....

Chris, the lady couldnt physically sit down with the armrests lowered. Simply too wide.

It was a full flight, so no chance to swap seats. As I said in the opening post, I am a very tall bugger, so Y flights are uncomfortable enough to start with. Have been lucky enough to only travel J usually, but in this case the whole plane is Y only, and I had an international connection to make.

I know it is a hard topic, and I really felt bad for the lady too. But fair´s fair. I would have hopped off the plane if it was a long haul matter, but I could endure it for the 90 minutes or whatever it was. A little ¨sorry¨ from the staff would have been nice.

 

[Harpoon]

It comes down to selfishness in many cases I would imagine. Larger folk realise they're going to cause an issue for the person next to them, but 5/10 times theres a spare seat.... so problem solved. So why bother buying an extra seat when reasonable chance that theres a spare seat??

It's also a serious issue in the event of an emergency and everyone has to get off in a hurry down escape slides via over wing exits or whatever. There's little chance the woman would be able to get out at a reasonable rate, and you're stuck there until she does get out. It would certainly play on my mind.

 

[Jeffrey O'Neill]

On an Air Asia flight from KUL to OOL I had the misfortune to be stuck next too on oversized woman. As far as she was concerned she took the space she needed to be comfortable and well the people on either side of her just had to deal with it.

I was lucky to have the aisle seat so I could get up now and then, but when someone big takes something to knock them out it's really not fun to have them flowing all over you.

Maybe someone needs to take a law suite against an airlines for this issue and then we'll get better policing of it.

Maybe the airlines need to have a message when booking - are you over 100KG? Do you think you would need a second seat? Comfort seat at 50% to be refunded if the flight is not full.

Might make people take responsibility, rather than dodging the issue and making others suffer for it.

 

[harvyk]

The problem is that I don't think you can put a weight on it per say. I wouldn't care if the person next to me weighed 200kg provided that they fitted in their seat and only occupied the space within the confines of the armrests.

I've seen plenty of "normal" weighted people with little disregard for other peoples space who probably should have brought a "comfort seat" simply because they don't want to fit in a normal seat and I've seen plenty of overweight people with lots of regards to their larger frame and thus where very careful that their size did not encroach on someone else's space. Of course I've seen a few overweight people with no regards for anyone else as well, and it is those guys who give overweight people a bad name.

Something along the lines of "just like your suitcase must be within certain dimensions, you yourself must be within the following dimensions N x N x N to flying in YY+JF class, if you are unable to fit within these dimensions you have the following options available to you.... etc" needs to be added in prior to ticket purchases.

 

[UP4014]

The armrests must be down rule I think is a good one, I also believe that there should be a rule that you must be able to be fully self contained in the seat without any part of you going over the arm rest(s), be it because you have a small frame, or be it that you are able to squeeze yourself into a shape which doesn't go over it doesn't matter. If you can not satisfy those conditions then you must buy a second ticket.

When you start talking about people not fitting within the armrests, I start to think how narrow those little escape doors are. (I'm no waif myself)

 

[jetlagger]

Geez..

This thread is getting more interesting every hour..

More twists & turns than the bumpy road to Mombasa..

Enlightening reading & mostly entertaining... But seriously a topic & issue that needs to be addressed & its seems that most people are being rational, voicing concerns & suggesting solutions to an ever increasing problem.

 

[Archphoto]

ITA - I've flown seated next to some larger people on many occasions, and until the one time I stated earlier, never had a problem.
The weight factor doesn't come into it - rather the size; if you're so large you're encroaching into other peoples seats and personal space, you should be charged for an extra seat.

Thankfully there was a spare seat on my flight - but that was the only one in Y that I could see (and believe me I was looking hard!!), and I'm pretty sure J was full as well.

As an aside, what would happen if there hadn't been a spare seat available? Seriously, expecting me (or any other flyer) to put up with those conditions (or similar) on such a long flight would have been intolerable. How would the FAs have handled the obvious dilemma?

 

[UP4014]

I hate to have to say this but I haven't been to the back of a commercial airliner for 15 years so unsure of the layout back there these days; but where the aircraft tapers in at the rear perhaps instead of say 3 of the regular seats they could install some wider seats in the last row but have a couple less across.

Yes, slightly reduced income but I think a lot of goodwill and perhaps more flying by larger people and the travel companions.

Matt

 

[serfty]

There's plenty more threads here on AFF and on FT about this very topic.

Unfortunatly in Oz it's a very fine line between being discriminatory and practical.

 

[rechoboam]

I think this is the core of the problem and I also think given the immense costs that we all bear for others' laziness and or stupidity, this kind of mindset will switch in the next two or so decades. I'm certainly not a slimmy either and could never go past my mom's home-cooked German meals but I still managed to train off around 30 kilos in less than a year through hard exercise and leaving behind those crunchy fries (unless in the Flounge or on special occasions that is ). Bootcamp three times a week at 5am hasn't been easy, I tell you but no one said it would be.

To the point: I really think the mindset will move from a PC-kinda you cannot discriminate attitude towards a more smoking-like "Their fault, if they just eat what they please- as long as it's not my health cover paying for it!" attitude in our society. And that's not a bad thing in my eyes as like with quitting smoking, there's something every single individual can do if they so want. And if after all that, you still become diabetic or what ever else, then I'm more than happy to pay for that as much as I'd pay for someone getting some cancer totally innocently.

If people actually had to finance and budget to have their lung removed or cardiac bypass surgery perhaps they would feel more determined to stop smoking or possibly lose weight where biologically possible. Same if their health insurance premiums were say 15thou per year. Socializing all these risks is not a good thing any more than it is to allow investment banks to go broke taking excessive risk and the taxpayer paying.

 

[juddles]

There's plenty more threads here on AFF and on FT about this very topic.

Unfortunatly in Oz it's a very fine line between being discriminatory and practical.

It is a hard issue due to natural human restraint and feelings. I felt sorry for the woman, even though it could be argued it was her size that was causing inconvenience to others. I certainly didnt feel like making a scene about it and embarassing her. Perhaps that is what airlines rely on to avoid tackling the issue.

 

[Major]

This is a very subjective issue. What is the definition of "fat" and what is overweight from the airlines point of view ? Until there is universal agreement on these definitions it is doubtful the airlines will pursue this problem.
I'm sure that airline staff find it very difficult to decide who will fit in a seat and who will not. Problems of discrimination, confrontation and bullying are on everyone's mind, not to mention bad publicity.
If Y seats are the same size then something similar to a product data sheet is needed.

We all need to know where we stand (or sit)

 

[chrisb]

Would you support 'fat' people being given priority in the upgrade queue?

People seem to agree that they should have more space, this would make it more accessible for a lot of people who need that extra space but can't afford it.