Economy X [Domestic free for Platinum] - May 2017

[fitzy]

That was the info I got last night. I suspected as much as I couldn't select rows 3-5 on the kiosks as well as exit rows, so I asked in the lounge and got a run down of the new policy. Essentially reserved for paying guests + WP. Rows 3-5 unavailable otherwise, row 7 and back for SG. Exit rows can be allocated at the airport if requested, this makes sense. There is a CASA requirement to have 2 pax in each block on B738s when there is more than a certain number of passengers on board (IIRC its 144) but it is always better to fill them pro actively.

I can provide a counter-example of this - this morning I (a PS) asked at checkin for an exit row seat (I'm really tall so usually they are nice) and there were none left - but they offered 4D (economyx) instead and the agent specifically noted the extra legroom.

 

[Must...Fly!]

I can provide a counter-example of this - this morning I (a PS) asked at checkin for an exit row seat (I'm really tall so usually they are nice) and there were none left - but they offered 4D (economyx) instead and the agent specifically noted the extra legroom.

I'm quite tall as well, usually I get it if I ask. as long as its not taking away a shadow from a WP unnecessarily I dont really see the problem with giving SG/PS members access to them at the airport (as an unpublished benefit type thing). But I can understand why WP's would be against this.

 

[Jack_OC]

I can provide a counter-example of this - this morning I (a PS) asked at checkin for an exit row seat (I'm really tall so usually they are nice) and there were none left - but they offered 4D (economyx) instead and the agent specifically noted the extra legroom.

Was the flight full? Or close to full? If so, I don't think this necessarily means anything - if the flight is full they have to give those seats away.

My first flight in the YX era is on Wed - when doing OLCI today, Row 3 was full, and the only spare seats in rows 4 and 5 were the middle seats - but all 4 middle seats in those rows were empty. The rest of the plane is fairly full too, except, surprisingly, all 12 of the exit row seats were empty.

I'm also planning to try Fly Ahead on Friday - it occurs to me that another advantage of the new system might be that a Platinum can get a YX seat when changing at the last minute - previously when using Fly Ahead I've generally ended up somewhere towards the back.

 

[Matt_01]

I do not think Yx is that bad. I stopped flying VA nearly 22 months back and was initially ok with dropping back to SG, as I had accrued just over 800 SC's through pooling and DL fights I realised I only needed 8 VA marketed sectors to retain WP. In the past three weeks I have flown the 8 sectors in booked on the middle price fare class and was in the Yx seats. This is just my observation, 3C or A for 5 fights, legroom seemed to be better than pre Yx but after 22 months I'd can not be sure, on all these fights all of R3 was occupied. Other 3 flights x2 4C and x1 4D on these flights I had a shadow.

Based on my experience I may fly VA in R4 in the short term until QF rollover date. I read on Ausbt that a WP was sent back to R12 to make way for a Yx fee paying PAX, if this happens I will be back to QF quicker than a rat up a drain pipe and VA fights will be no more.

 

[Jack_OC]

I do not think Yx is that bad. I stopped flying VA nearly 22 months back and was initially ok with dropping back to SG, as I had accrued just over 800 SC's through pooling and DL fights I realised I only needed 8 VA marketed sectors to retain WP. In the past three weeks I have flown the 8 sectors in booked on the middle price fare class and was in the Yx seats. This is just my observation, 3C or A for 5 fights, legroom seemed to be better than pre Yx but after 22 months I'd can not be sure, on all these fights all of R3 was occupied. Other 3 flights x2 4C and x1 4D on these flights I had a shadow.

Based on my experience I may fly VA in R4 in the short term until QF rollover date. I read on Ausbt that a WP was sent back to R12 to make way for a Yx fee paying PAX, if this happens I will be back to QF quicker than a rat up a drain pipe and VA fights will be no more.

Your story very similar to mine. I moved most of my flying to QF about a year ago, and decided I wasn't going to bother trying to retain status with VA. However, due to a couple of overseas trips in J with EY, I'm now just in need of eligible sectors to retain Platinum with Velocity, and based on current bookings I will get exactly 8 prior to my review date in a couple of months. I also agree that YX might tempt me to fly more with VA again, but only if it really is a guaranteed benefit. The AusBT story is pretty shocking - but per my comment on that story, I don't really understand how a situation arises where a passenger is able to purchase a seat that has already been selected by someone else. I wonder if this was one of VA's famous IT glitches?

 

[Matt_01]

The AusBT story is pretty shocking - but per my comment on that story, I don't really understand how a situation arises where a passenger is able to purchase a seat that has already been selected by someone else. I wonder if this was one of VA's famous IT glitches?

I had not read your response on Ausbt, after I read about the bump, I stopped reading thinking typical VA behaviour. Since your response above I have now read your Ausbt response and agree. IT glitch not sure how that happens, maybe more like crew or staff travel.

 

[MH_fan]

This is just my observation, 3C or A for 5 fights, legroom seemed to be better than pre Yx but after 22 months I'd can not be sure, on all these fights all of R3 was occupied. Other 3 flights x2 4C and x1 4D on these flights I had a shadow.

The legroom in row 3 is definitely a little less than before YX. It's still pretty good but it's probably a few inches less than before to make up for the increased pitch in rows 4 and 5. I'm of average height so it doesn't affect me but people over 6' would notice the difference.

 

[Jack_OC]

So my first YX experience was (supposed to be) today. I was in Row 5, as there were no seats available in Rows 3 or 4 - and seat selection showed this seat as YX. I only selected my seat during OLCI, as I changed flights at late notice. However, when I boarded it became clear that the plane (a 737) hadn't been upgraded - so it was the old style row 5 with standard leg room. I realise there is a disclaimer on the website saying they haven't yet upgraded all aircraft, but you would think the seat map during OLCI would reflect the actual aircraft being used? Anyway, the guy beside me had clearly paid the $29 YX fee, and was given an apology and a voucher to get a refund, but there was no apology to anyone else in Rows 4 or 5! Obviously the attitude is that if you got it free as a Platinum benefit, then it doesn't matter if the benefit is not actually delivered!

The annoying thing is, I could have selected an exit row but I didn't, as I thought I was getting extra legroom in Row 5! My annoyance was exacerbated when I went to the loo shortly before descent and realised that there were still 2 exit row seats unoccupied - apparently they never thought to offer those seats to anyone who had selected a Row 4 or 5 seat expecting extra legroom - not even the guy who paid the $29 fee! VA really can't get anything right.

 

[Justchecking]

but you would think the seat map during OLCI would reflect the actual aircraft being used?

That would have required them to upgrade their system to actually create and tag seatmaps for every aircraft rego. Not saying it's hard to do but this is the airline that launched business class with only a handful of J seats fitted on a limited number of their 737's and had full paying passengers turn up and getting the old premium economy seats. It helps to remember these things.

Anyway, the guy beside me had clearly paid the $29 YX fee, and was given an apology and a voucher to get a refund, but there was no apology to anyone else in Rows 4 or 5! Obviously the attitude is that if you got it free as a Platinum benefit, then it doesn't matter if the benefit is not actually delivered!

I dare say the FA's are thoroughly sick of being apologists by this stage and do the token fix but not more.

The annoying thing is, I could have selected an exit row but I didn't, as I thought I was getting extra legroom in Row 5! My annoyance was exacerbated when I went to the loo shortly before descent and realised that there were still 2 exit row seats unoccupied - apparently they never thought to offer those seats to anyone who had selected a Row 4 or 5 seat expecting extra legroom - not even the guy who paid the $29 fee! VA really can't get anything right.

I feel you. Kind of reminiscent of the transition from VB days where the exit rows were pay for use but then not because it was a WP or something benefit blah, blah, blah. I seem to recall a bit of a dogs breakfast back then too with people paying for it then not getting it or paying for it when it's actually free or something. One would imagine, having once before sold extra leg room seats the return to that model would be an easy thing.

 

[Must...Fly!]

Something that should be sorted before the flight is closed for check in. Shifting from row 5 to the exits will (if my memory serves correct) require manual change to paperwork, or new issue. I.E. it's not happening.

 

[Jack_OC]

Something that should be sorted before the flight is closed for check in. Shifting from row 5 to the exits will (if my memory serves correct) require manual change to paperwork, or new issue. I.E. it's not happening.

But they didn't just figure out we were on an aircraft without the new YX seats at the last minute, did they? I would assume that came to their attention quite a while before check-in closed (check-in closes at T-30 - I was already standing at the gate looking at the aircraft by then).

 

[Must...Fly!]

But they didn't just figure out we were on an aircraft without the new YX seats at the last minute, did they? I would assume that came to their attention quite a while before check-in closed (check-in closes at T-30 - I was already standing at the gate looking at the aircraft by then).

I'm not excusing it, just trying to give some (limited) insight.

In any case the only way for the ground staff to have it known to them is having the entire list of registrations etc in front of them (again, no, as sometimes they don't know the operating rego due to last minute swap etc). Realistically the only people that would probably know and make the changes at the last minute would be far too busy dealing with other (frankly, more important) things. I am not sure if seat maps have been changed in Sabre to show YX seats in a different way - perhaps someone can ask when they next fly. In any case, the seat map change would have to be done, and this is not something (again, IIRC) that is done at the airport level.

I don't know how YX works but thinking about it, I wouldn't move a WP from row 5 to row 13, but I probably would move someone who had paid for extra leg room if it was noticed. On the basis that WPs tend to go to the front as a matter of course and that someone has paid for the extra leg room, against someone who has not. Really there is no fair way to do this, and unfortunately wherever it's dealt with it is not going to be a nice experience for everyone.

But I detest the scenario in which it is left up to cabin crew. Back in my day I would rather have taken the heat myself on the ground, at least when everyone is on board the issue flies away - and I mean that in the nicest possible terms. Shouldn't be left up to cabin crew to deal with stuff which can be reasonably foreseen/explained/complained about earlier.

 

[Justchecking]

But they didn't just figure out we were on an aircraft without the new YX seats at the last minute, did they? I would assume that came to their attention quite a while before check-in closed (check-in closes at T-30 - I was already standing at the gate looking at the aircraft by then).

I'm not defending the company but I do want to answer this.

No, ground crew would have no idea whether a certain rego has YX seats on it or not. The system they use to check in uses a command line interface, not a nice little graphic showing the exact details of specific aircraft. You are right that seat reassignments need to happen before flight closure though as every little change after that becomes a cascading cluster-F that delays aircraft. Airlines run their operations based on high workload, tight timeframes and once boarding opens there isn't any time to make on the fly changes. Also check-in staff are the newbies typically, not always but they do always start there so you may not always be dealing with a really switched on employee but often with a trainee.

But then you also have no way of knowing if those overwing seats were always empty or if they were the result of people failing to check in or no-shows at the gate. So it's not necessarily a correct assumption that you could have selected those seats instead.

 

[Must...Fly!]

I'm not defending the company but I do want to answer this.

No, ground crew would have no idea whether a certain rego has YX seats on it or not. The system they use to check in uses a command line interface, not a nice little graphic showing the exact details of specific aircraft. You are right that seat reassignments need to happen before flight closure though as every little change after that becomes a cascading cluster-F that delays aircraft. Airlines run their operations based on high workload, tight timeframes and once boarding opens there isn't any time to make on the fly changes. Also check-in staff are the newbies typically, not always but they do always start there so you may not always be dealing with a really switched on employee but often with a trainee.

But then you also have no way of knowing if those overwing seats were always empty or if they were the result of people failing to check in or no-shows at the gate. So it's not necessarily a correct assumption that you could have selected those seats instead.

Actually Sabre does provide a nice graphic - but as I mentioned above, there is no guarantee this will actually show the difference. I would be willing to bet not.

You are right though in saying that staff who are good at what they do are unlikely to be at check-in for long.

 

[Jack_OC]

But then you also have no way of knowing if those overwing seats were always empty or if they were the result of people failing to check in or no-shows at the gate. So it's not necessarily a correct assumption that you could have selected those seats instead.

That wasn't an assumption. When I did OLCI, there were several exit row seats available for selection, but I chose 5C instead because it apparently also had extra legroom. I definitely could have selected an exit row seat.

As for the rest of the comments - I really don't know how it works, but what you're saying is that nobody knows if there is YX or not until immediately before boarding commences? If so, that's just extraordinary.

 

[Must...Fly!]

That wasn't an assumption. When I did OLCI, there were several exit row seats available for selection, but I chose 5C instead because it apparently also had extra legroom. I definitely could have selected an exit row seat.

As for the rest of the comments - I really don't know how it works, but what you're saying is that nobody knows if there is YX or not until immediately before boarding commences? If so, that's just extraordinary.

I really don't know either, but if that is the case, personally I don't think it is extraordinary. To be fair to others, I come from a rather unique point of view having had a few different roles within ground crew.

 

[Justchecking]

That wasn't an assumption. When I did OLCI, there were several exit row seats available for selection, but I chose 5C instead because it apparently also had extra legroom. I definitely could have selected an exit row seat.

Then perhaps your best option for now, until all the aircraft are fitted is to select the exit row by preference and avoid this whole situation. Once the entire fleet are fitted then you won't have this problem.

 

[Pleb Status]

My first flight with YX in full effect yesterday PER-BNE and the final seat map was a magnificent sight....



An almost full flight but the forward middle YX seats were nice and empty. It looked like 5A and 5B were travelling together so it was almost a perfect performance by VA.

Row 3 is now closer to the bulkhead in front, but if this is the trade off for getting a very good chance of a shadow (not many will pay for a middle seat), I will take that trade off any day.

 

[eastwest101]

I flew two VA B738 segments today and although not quite as full as the seat map depicted above, I can say I saw a very similar pattern of seating allocation myself.

Just a small sample today but probably worth keeping an eye on to see how it develops over time.

 

[Milefest]

I've been encountering a strange issue with OLCI. When I select an XY seat it prompts me with a warning stating that these seats incur an additional fee. After accepting the fee and selecting an XY seat then saving, it reverts me back to the seat I originally booked. I'm currently gold status, anyone else encountered this?