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Economy B vs. Economy Y

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Birdster

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Jul 29, 2006
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Hello fellow FF's

I've been trying to find an answer to why sometimes when I'm booked to fly BNE-CNS (or CNS-BNE), my economy ticket is classed either B or Y. The dollar value doesn't seem to change though the prices do flucuate a few dollars. The restrictions are the same...ie; can change flight at last minute with-out penalty.

But both fares give me the same amount of SCs.

Qantas does not even list B class in thier fare structure. http://www.qantas.com.au/agents/dyn/qf/policies/domesticClueCard.pdf

Hoping someone could shed some light on this. Also possibly how to get pushed towards the front of the plane. I have recently acheived Gold in what seems like only two months of intense travel (for me anyway), if that makes a difference for the "preferred seating" I have read about.

Regards,

Ken
 

oz_mark

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Most of my recent corporate travel has booked into B. I understand it to be a fully flexible ticket, with some sort of saving attached to it.
 

Birdster

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Have now done my profile...next flight out on Sat 9th. Lets see if that changes things.

Thanks for the tip.
 

NM

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The B booking code (often referred to as booking class) is the first level of discounted fare bucket below the Y bucket. Y and B (as well as H and K) all earn full SCs on domestic flights. However, on international flights, Y earns full economy SCs while B, H and K all earn discount economy SCs.

The B fare rules are generally very similar to Y fares. They are generally valid for 12 months, fully refundable and changeable etc. The main difference will be with availability. When the flight is very full, you may find that no B (or any of the discounted fare buckets) exist, and only Y fares are available.

Also note that within each fare bucket there may be multiple actual fares available. The fare basis is the multi-letter fare code such as BHEE or Y2RT. Note that different B fares may have different rules and different prices for the same route, but both book into B fare bucket.

On domestic flights, B seems to be being replaced by W on many routes, available as WIPOX where previously it would have been BISOX (from memory??).
 

Dave Noble

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NM said:
On domestic flights, B seems to be being replaced by W on many routes, available as WIPOX where previously it would have been BISOX (from memory??).
BISOX was a strange beastie which priced between HOX and Y ( unlike WIPOX which is before H ).

The HOX and Y fares both allow waitlisting and had no purchase restrictions. The BISOX was an instant purchase fare and did not allow waitlisting. It was a fare which I could see v little reason for purchasing ( and was not offered on the QF website ) other than if wanting the 1.5 qpoints if crediting to AA

Dave
 

oz_mark

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My bookings in B list as a private fare, and I know they aren't instant purchase, but I don't know the full rules of the fare either. I guess it is whatever was negotiated.
 

Birdster

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Ahh! Oz_Mark, you have found the difference in my itinerary(ies). All my "B" class fares are Private and all my "Y"'s are Economy. It must be as said before, what is negotiated when bought. But the price difference is minimal (wouldn't buy a 6 pack) and now that I've set up my profile, we'll see if that changes anything to my seating allocation. Unless I burn 7500 points and fly "U" :Grin:

Thanks all!
 

Yada Yada

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Birdster said:
Have now done my profile...next flight out on Sat 9th. Lets see if that changes things.
Hmmm... good luck. ;)

My experience is that this is simply part of the Qantas FF "smoke and mirrors" routine. That is: you be loyal to them by flying with them all the time, and they'll pretend to be loyal to you by making you feel that your "forward cabin" preference actually means something. :D

I've found that if I want to sit towards the front, I have to pay for it.
 

jakeseven7

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Birdster said:
Have now done my profile...next flight out on Sat 9th. Lets see if that changes things.

Thanks for the tip.
Should do, keep in mind that it is dependent on a few other things like the amount of higher ranking FF's on the same flight (e.g 5pm Friday flights to Syd are usually 100% profiled), time of check in etc.

I'm only Gold but I end up right at the front these days which is great :D Most people get what they want, if you don't initially just ask at the QF pub and they can usually move you forward.

Back to B fares - I have a question, all my domestic corporate fares are usually ticketed in this class (and Y if B is not available).

But Travel swears black and blue that our corporate discounted B fares are NOT refundable, but can be moved perpetually and re-routed, credit used for new flights etc at no charge but not refunded. Does this sound right? Maybe with corporate discounts there is an exception... ?
 

NM

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jakeseven7 said:
Back to B fares - I have a question, all my domestic corporate fares are usually ticketed in this class (and Y if B is not available).

But Travel swears black and blue that our corporate discounted B fares are NOT refundable, but can be moved perpetually and re-routed, credit used for new flights etc at no charge but not refunded. Does this sound right? Maybe with corporate discounts there is an exception... ?
Could be. Would need to see the full fare basis (such as BISOX or similar) and the associated fare rules to know for sure. Remember that B is just a booking code and does not define the fare rules. Its the fare basis that defines the rules. There could be any number of different fares that book into B class, each with their own fare rules. And its even possible that you have your own special corporate fares that book into B, with your own associated fare rules.

For example, say you worked for a company called XYZ Enterprises, and they had a special fare with Qantas that books into B that has a fare basis of BXYZOW. This fare could include rules such as only being available for sale to employees of XYZ Enterprises, non-refundable, no FF points earned etc etc. And that could be very different rules to a BISOX fare purchased by another passenger. But both are subject to availability of seats for sale in the B booking code bucket.
 

oz_mark

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jakeseven7 said:
But Travel swears black and blue that our corporate discounted B fares are NOT refundable, but can be moved perpetually and re-routed, credit used for new flights etc at no charge but not refunded. Does this sound right? Maybe with corporate discounts there is an exception... ?
I've gone back and reread my fare rules, and one part it says is "TICKETS ARE REFUNDABLE.". I assume that it depends on what your company has negotiated with Qantas as to what conditions you get.
 

jakeseven7

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Yea, well today I went out to lunch with a friend from Travel. Our deal with QF was negotiated buy our Global Procurement team who are specialised in getting blood from stones etc and actually in the pitch process, made a girl from Virgin cry and a man from SQ leave the room temprarily !!!

Anyway, QF won and we have some decent discounts as a result - and apparantly our B fares can do anything (sing, dance, name changes etc) but not refundable, which in our business doesn't matter as we are constantly travelling... sigh.

Anyway mystery solved. And I was thinking, some people complain about getting poor seats even though they have forward marked in their profile, but whenever our team travels we are always right up the front even on peak flights (even the Silver members). So maybe as a part of our deal we get some kind of flag in our booking which gets us decent seats?? I asked and my mate wasn't sure. Probably stretching it a bit far, I guess but maybe explains why some people seem to have bad luck with seating?
 

Yada Yada

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jakeseven7 said:
Yea, well today I went out to lunch with a friend from Travel. Our deal with QF was negotiated buy our Global Procurement team who are specialised in getting blood from stones etc and actually in the pitch process, made a girl from Virgin cry and a man from SQ leave the room temprarily !!!
Sound like your company employs charming people! :eek:

jakeseven7 said:
And I was thinking, some people complain about getting poor seats even though they have forward marked in their profile, but whenever our team travels we are always right up the front even on peak flights (even the Silver members). So maybe as a part of our deal we get some kind of flag in our booking which gets us decent seats?? I asked and my mate wasn't sure. Probably stretching it a bit far, I guess but maybe explains why some people seem to have bad luck with seating?
That would explain things! However it does make a bit of mockery of the loyalty aspect of being a FF. :-|
 

serfty

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I travel oz domestic on 90% red e-deal and have been preallocated with some quite good seats; somewhat further forward generally once attaining QF WP. So I do not belive fare basis is a significant factor. Maybe my Surname staring with "A" helps... ;) ...
 

jakeseven7

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Yada Yada said:
Sound like your company employs charming people! :eek:
Procurement people = scary
Global procurement = horror movie
Global procurement procuring major ticket items = war

These guys in some countries have to deal with dictatorship governments who control our suppliers. I imagine dealing domestic and regional air travel supploers for our Australian operations was a walk in the park for them.

I don't really think we get 'better seats' built into our tickets, it was just a hypothesis, someone with more knowledge will probably squash the theory soon!

I was thinking actually when we travel in groups, the Silvers probably get pulled up to where the Golds or higher are as their brn's are cross referenced in the booking.
 
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